Issues with used car after a month and a half

[Nope.]

Hi All,

So I thought I'd seek the advice of the BCF collective.

Approximately a month and a half ago I purchased a Range Rover from a non-franchise dealer. It's a 2011 with FSH, 4.4 TDV8, and 80k miles on the clock. I paid around £16k for the car.

After a few days it developed an oil leak from a gasket underneath the oil cooler which sits in the V. I spoke to the dealer and we agreed that I'd pay the labour and he'd pay the parts (the parts were more expensive). This was repaired.

I've put around 2k miles on the car since, and it seemed to perform fine. I was driving the car on a long distance trip (again, performing fine) and I got a "reduced performance" warning on the dash. I pulled over, shut the car off, started the car again and the warning returned. When the codes were read the error was relating to boost pressure, we assumed through a split hose. I had the car recovered to a garage local to me and they looked at it.

They started the car and the error had cleared. They drove it for 10~ miles and said it drove absolutely fine. They then plugged in their computer and looked at the raw sensor data. One MAF was showing 0, so they assumed it was a fault MAF. They swapped them over to make sure, but the other MAF also read 0 on that intake.

They then removed the air intake and put their hand over the intake while the car was revved, there was no air drawn from the intake. This would suggest a failed/seized turbo charger.

Since the car was driving fine (at least to my knowledge, it's the only one I've driven!), and hasn't changed since I bought it, I can only assume this turbo has been faulty since I bought the car, or has been slowly failing over a period of time.

Basically, I'm staring down the barrel of a £3.5k turbo replacement bill since it's basically an engine out job, and everybody seems to say you should change both.

Do I have a leg to stand on with the dealer? I've not spoken to them yet as I've not had the final diagnosis from the garage yet as they're taking it apart today to look at the turbo.

Since I am fairly convinced this issue is preexisting, is the dealer liable for the repair? I know this used to be covered by the sale of goods act but it's now the consume rights act. Does anybody have any recent experience or advice to offer?
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2011 XT660Z Ténéré - 2003 YZR-R1 5PW (In Build)

[Hawkeye1250FA]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/34744/rejecting-a-new-or-used-car-top-tips%3famp

Basically within 30 days = easy peasy
Between 30days and 6 years = still possible but you need to prove it was pre-existing.

You may need to spend some money on a garage to confirm this in writing.

However, with 80k miles on the clock, I think you will be laughed out of their showroom myself. Sold as described I think. Sorry 😣

Just unlucky.
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1993 RF400R - 2002 Bandit 1200 - 2012 1250 FA

[Riejufixing]

No idea about the legalities. Try honestjohn.co.uk There's an "ask HJ" facility and forums where knowledgeable people read & psot.

"They then removed the air intake and put their hand over the intake while the car was revved, there was no air drawn from the intake. This would suggest a failed/seized turbo charger."

The air intake to what, the turbocharger?

"Basically, I'm staring down the barrel of a £3.5k turbo replacement bill since it's basically an engine out job, and everybody seems to say you should change both"

https://best-turbos.com/land-rover-turbo-replacement/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIyN3kxPK44AIVCrvtCh02NwADEAAYASAAEgJnKfD_BwE

There seem to be other places too. Also, I can't see why replacing a turbo should go together with replacing the engine....

[Ste]

Hmmmmmmm.

Full service history, when was it last serviced and was it by a Range Rover dealer?

"has been slowly failing over a period of time"

Yes, cars do that.

Does the Range Rover dealer know that you're having it taken apart by some other garage?

Was the oil leak from the feed or return pipe to the turbo?

Thinking out loud, if the problem with the turbo should have been spotted when they fixed the oil leak or at the very least flagged up to you as an incoming bill, that would have been the time to fix it rather than waiting until it went failed.

Did they tell you what parts were replaced when they fixed the oil leak?

[Ste]

[MarJay]

Within Six months of purchase it's down to the dealer to prove that the issue was not pre-existing, and so they should be liable.

I'm surprised more BCFers aren't aware of this...

Copypasta from Honest John's site:

[Polarbear]

The place I bought my Jaguar from told me any faults that weren't wear and tear items would be sorted within 6 months or 6000 miles.

Now I don't know if they were stating that because of the law or it was their own guarantee but I'm sure they wouldn't be offering that if they thought they could get away with less.

I do wonder why you didn't go back to the supplying dealer initially with your turbo fault rather than use another garage. You have just pulled a third party into the equation which initially I wouldn't think helps your case.
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[2Hondas]

[Hawkeye1250FA]

[M.C]

inb4 grumpyguts

[TbirdX]

So the cars drives fine, hasn't thrown another fault code and they say the turbo is bust?

You can't take these motors to any old garage and expect a cheap fix. I've had 2 Disco 3's and both threw all manner of faults that look terminal but cost nothing to fix, take it to someone who doesn't know them however, and you'll change £500 worth of sensors before they give up and can't fix it.. RR's are the same.

Find an indie RR specialist and get it looked at or get a credit card with a very high limit and a good recovery package.
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VFR800X - TTR250

[duhawkz]

Is the car on finance/credit card or was it bought out right

If there is a finance agreement attached to it, you may be able to make a section 75 claim to the finance company

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/section75-protect-your-purchases/
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"The guy is a worthless cunt and I honestly believe I would be a slightly happier person if he died." - Chris-Red

[mentalboy]

[UnknownStuntm...]

[stevo as b4]

I'm with Hawkeye on this.
Sure 80k is nothing for a modern looked after car with FSH, or it wouldn't be for something simple/sensible like a Ford Focus with a naturally aspirated Duratec engine.

But a car as complicated and well known for its reliability issues as an older Range Rover, (8years old), and with tons of equipment and electronics that will eventually go wrong is a £16k gamble.

That TDV8 engine alone is very complicated, and has twice as much to go wrong being a twin turbo V8. As someone said it's riddled with sensors and electronics, and it's not an engine you can easily convert to aftermarket management if it all goes wrong or fries an ECU.

Also your likely to have issues with common modern diesel faults such as blocked up DPF's, clogged EGR valves etc, as your unlikely to be able to drive a 4.4L V8 hard enough in daily traffic to keep it happy and allow the DPF re-gen cycle to work. Also you can bet whoever bought this car new really didn't give a fuck, and wasn't interested in under bonnet checks, or if anything went wrong they could simply trade it in and buy a new car.

[Hawkeye1250FA]

[BTTD]

If they did note that the oil leak was from a turbo pipe when they fixed it, I'm guessing they crossed their fingers and hoped it would last.
Has the turbo actually gone? I don't know how clever those engine management systems are, but if there's an engine fault can they disable the turbos if they're variable vane?
I'm pretty sure my old Jeep CRD did this when it went into limp mode. It would rev all the way but with f'all power, and no turbo engagement.

On a side note I applaud your bravery in buying an 8 year old RR with 80k on it. I mean, yeah, it's not high miles for the age, but RR are complicated and somewhat prone to issues.
Also, when you say engine out job, is that literally taking the engine out or does that mean taking the body off like the Discovery? F'ck that.

[Polarbear]

[-]

[Pete.]

The reasoning that you should expect a Range Rover to break down doesn't hold water, because if a buyer is expected to do their research and apparently accept the risk of buying an unreliable motor then equally the seller must accept the same risk in selling one.

Failed turbo after 6 weeks and 2000miles = dealer liability IMO.
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a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[BTTD]

[MarJay]

[Ste]

They should fix it, how straight forward that'll be is another matter entirely.

It should become apparent quite quickly how willing they are to play ball, seeing as they wanted him to pay the labour when fixing the oil leak which occurred in the first few days, I wouldn't be very confident about them being willing to pay for a new turbo.

Give them one attempt to fix the fault and if they don't then you can reject the car and get a refund.

I've a horrible feeling that the fact you've had another garage working on it is going to complicate things.

[Polarbear]