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| MarJay |
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MarJay
But it's British!
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 Posted: 12:00 - 17 Feb 2019  Post subject: |
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There is actually a really good Haynes manual on the 600RR. I have it, and it's useful.
It's not an easy bike to work on. I had to change the throttle twist grip on mine last year because the previous owner dropped it, shattering the nylon tube.
In order to do that, I had to loosen the throttle cam adjuster in the centre of the four cylinders. In order to do that I had to remove the tank cover, electronic steering damper, the ESD ECU, the ESD wiring loom (which has 5 connecting points over the airbox lid, a LOT of connectors) the airbox lid, the throttle bodies and the airbox base. It took me a weekend to do it. To change a twist grip.
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M.C
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| Posted: 12:38 - 17 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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| MarJay wrote: | A Street Triple is a bit of a different animal, but what I would recommend for a noob is a CBR650, MT-07 something like that. When my GF passed her test (after spending a year on a 125) I recommended an ER6, which she loves. But we did go through the gamut of FZ6 diversion, Fazer, Hornet, SV650. She just liked the ER6 more.
My Street has been remapped by Tony Scott and only makes 107bhp. It's still pretty immediate and has a bulging midrange. I don't think I'd want one as a first bike, but I do think it's more appropriate than the 600RR.
Personally I went NS125R (full power) VFR400 NC21, SV650, Daytona 955i. I think that was a decent progression. The 650s are the obvious choice for DAS because the main manufacturers don't make 400cc four cylinder sportsbikes any more. The Ninja 400 et al is a bit weedy. I quite like the idea of a KTM RC390, and for a noob I think it would be perfect, but it doesn't win on the spec sheet in terms of power. |
You'd recommend a slightly less powerful but heavier bike?  I bought a 50bhp bike being a scared little bitch, 6 weeks later I was on a 100bhp+ bike and realised I was being a scared little bitch, and actually the scared little bitch bike was 100% more tricky to ride.
The only reason to have an MT-07 is cos you're on an A2 licence, otherwise MT-09  |
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MarJay
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| MikegJ |
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MikegJ
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| Posted: 14:35 - 17 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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| Howling Terror wrote: | Considered a litre sportsbike? (bit tongue-in-cheek)
They unlike the 600s can be ridden in a 'lazy' fashion ...in town or wherever.
Get one with good fuelling and it'll pull nicely from 30mph-tunnel vision in 5th.
They're fuck ugly but the S1000RR should be considered. Has wet modes ABS and comfier than any 600 supersports and most superbikes.
^^^Ahh scrap that. You've made your bed.
Pity, you're missing out on those incremental 'HOLY FUCK THIS IS FAAAAAaaaaasssssttttt' moments.<<<These memories are imprinted..nay branded onto your brain...like your first threesome...They're that important.
Go from 11 hp to 27 hp....Wow! I can overtake most cars.
27 hp to 87 hp...Oh Maaaannnn! In the ton club...shoulder check.
87 hp to 190 hp. FUCK YOU WORLD! NB. Why is this allowed?
1. Maintenance tips : Download service manual. Don't scrimp on tyres.
https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/CBR600RR7-2007/ or ebay or sometimes a main dealer.
2. Riding tips: Join the SE Section. Plenty of excellent dickheads in
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Superb website mate that’s exactly what I was looking for on here much appreciated ✌️
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M.C
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MarJay
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 16:05 - 17 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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| MarJay wrote: | | M.C wrote: | This is where I disagree, the extra weight will more likely get you into trouble, especially as a new rider, rather than a few extra ponies. |
That's ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous. While extra weight might end up meaning you drop the bike, the power to weight is what would get you into trouble IMO. |
If we worried about what would get us into trouble, we wouldn't ride bikes in the first place 
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M.C
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| Posted: 16:29 - 17 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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| MarJay wrote: | | M.C wrote: | This is where I disagree, the extra weight will more likely get you into trouble, especially as a new rider, rather than a few extra ponies. |
That's ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous. While extra weight might end up meaning you drop the bike, the power to weight is what would get you into trouble IMO. A '93 blade and Street Triple have the same power to weight ratio, which nominally means the same level of performance. When the blade first came out, people were calling it a widowmaker! A lighter bike is inherently less stable, and more likely to slap you off the bike. Hence why the 600RR has a steering damper, and the Blade doesn't until 2004 where it starts to get a shed load more power.
Low weight is only good with low power to go with it. Low weight and lots of power is what gets people into trouble. |
No that is utterly ridiculous, weight comes into play every time you brake, every time you corner, power comes into play when you twist your wrist so you have control over how much you use. You'll barely notice 20bhp between the bikes and that extra definitely won't result in this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ1srcQMa_0 20kg you will notice, heck I could even feel 10kg difference, at low and normal speeds. |
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MarJay
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| Posted: 16:35 - 17 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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| chickenstrip wrote: | If we worried about what would get us into trouble, we wouldn't ride bikes in the first place |
Not as an experienced rider no, but as a newbie? I was f*cking terrified of my 125 when I first rode it. It took about two weeks to get used to it, and even then I didn't go out and try to max it out or anything. It's also true to say that inexperienced motorcyclists have more accidents. There was data that backed up the decision to add a restriction to the licensing in the UK.
As I happen to own two bikes which make the same power but have a 50kg difference in weight, I can probably give useful insight into the difference made by power to weight. I can honestly say the VFR (being something like 210kg and 107ish BHP) might be a bit of a handful at low speed, but it's far more confidence inspiring, and far less likely to bite me when moving at anything over 30mph. The Street Triple weighing something like 160kg and having a dyno proven 107bhp. Easier to muscle around at low speed (although twitchy) but at high speed? The slightest bit too much throttle, the slightest bit too much brake, a misjudged corner... you'd be in far more trouble on that bike than the VFR. Admittedly the brakes on the VFR are crap, but even so.
If I were going to lend one of them to my girlfriend who has been riding for two years, a year on a 55mph Derbi Cross City, and a year on an ER6, it would undoubtedly be the VFR. I certainly wouldn't be happy with her riding the CBR on the road. It's a bit of a nutter.
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 18:39 - 17 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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| MarJay wrote: | | chickenstrip wrote: | If we worried about what would get us into trouble, we wouldn't ride bikes in the first place |
Not as an experienced rider no, but as a newbie? I was f*cking terrified of my 125 when I first rode it. |
Pussy 
I couldn't wait to get on the fastest thing available and rag it, which I did. And damn the quincequonces. At least Mike here sounds like he's taking a sensible approach to learning his new bike.
| Quote: | I can probably give useful insight into the difference made by power to weight. |
Who asked for it?
MarJay, people have different approaches to getting into bikes. And some folk are more fearful than others. That's just nature. But if a guy wants to start out on a sports bike, don't you think that's up to them? Why should they then have to listen to a complete stranger tell them that they've made the wrong choice? Especially when they are quite happy with their choice and weren't asking for opinions on the matter anyway? I think you ought to wind yer neck in mate
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MikegJ
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Posted: 22:10 - 17 Feb 2019  Post subject: |
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| MarJay wrote: | | chickenstrip wrote: |
MarJay, people have different approaches to getting into bikes. And some folk are more fearful than others. That's just nature. But if a guy wants to start out on a sports bike, don't you think that's up to them? Why should they then have to listen to a complete stranger tell them that they've made the wrong choice? Especially when they are quite happy with their choice and weren't asking for opinions on the matter anyway? I think you ought to wind yer neck in mate |
Yes, I get that. He's got the bike now, what are you going to do? I just don't think it's a good first bike. |
Marjay loving your opinion mate and FairPlay again on your 20 years experience and many bikes owned. But as the guy who brought the bike and has had so much fun on it. I’d say if you love a super bike and fancy the challenge of mastering it (plus got half a brain) it’s a good bike to ride. It is light and riding it in high wind you do get pushed around a bit but nothing major. But brakes are sharp and easy to manage, the grip and control is unbelievable good. But everyday I go to a local car park and get a feel for the thing practicing bike control, pulling away, cornering, emergency stops. But I’m a firm believer there’s no point doing 140mph if you can’t do 5mph, plus 0 to 60 to 0 in a car park is such a fun game(it’s not a big car park so it really makes you think get of the throttle on the brakes. Even more so in the rain 😀) old bill come in one day blue and twos everything. Once licence checked and explained what I was doing I got a polite handshake and a pat on the back. What I’m trying to say is you CAN be a complete C@#t on a bike and it will kill you. Or you can love and cherish your bike (even a big scary super bike) which it isn’t by the way. Learn its history, respect it and master it. I trust my ability and respect the road but most of all I relax and enjoy the ride. You telling me that’s a bad bike?
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 23:02 - 17 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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Whereas I just jumped on my 750 Turbo, even before I had a full license, and gave it the beans everywhere
I have been dead ever since, however.
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Howling Terror
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Posted: 00:44 - 18 Feb 2019  Post subject: |
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^^^You obviously have some natural ability and had youth on your side.
I didn't(don't) hence why I did 4 years on 125 and 2 years on a 250, another 2 years before I got a relatively low powered 944 twin and then 5 years before the red n silver missile.
I'd hate to be back in time, back in a carpark like MikegJ but instead of practising figure 8s on a Honda xl125 I was on the missile.
At the time I needed confidence and riding those 125s offroad and on the road really helped. I loved riding over the cat n fiddle to a disused quarry. Plenty of small spills whilst I got used to loss of traction and not fixating on rocks.
Even got air..little wheelies.
So for me at least I'm glad I went incremental. Crashing a minging CG at 50mph was fixed with a scaffolding tube and a hammer. Also learned other valuable lessons from that off.
I surprised family and friends with my patience and restraint..something that is definitely not a natural ability of mine.
Wouldn't have happened in the 80s. I was a J-turning...wheelspinning...handbrake turning, speeding bellend who crashed everything he droveraced.
Getting a feel for a supersport600 in carpark. FFS. I'd feel more embarrassed about that that thrashing a 250 around backlanes.
Each to their own and I wish the OP all the very best. Riding motorcycles is right up there with my favourite things.
[edited to add the phrase minging]
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 00:59 - 18 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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| Howling Terror wrote: | ^^^You obviously have some natural ability and had youth on your side. |
I wouldn't say I had any natural ability
But I enjoyed riding so much, fear never came into it - mostly. Too dumb I guess. I was a certified speed junkie 
Everyone has their own approach to this riding lark. What's right for some might not be for others. I didn't (and don't) care that I may have missed the incremental method of getting used to speed and power. I don't feel I missed anything. I've had fun from this biking lark all the way through
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Howling Terror
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| Posted: 01:26 - 18 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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^^^It was more than luck that got you through. Guessing you rode with others, that also helps if they're half decent...can also take you right out of your comfort zone..which is nice. 
I had no lessons. I rode alone and riding motorcycles even now is something that commands all my attention. I fricking love that about it.
It isn't easy..it's like having awkward sex when her cat/dog/grandmother is staring at you whilst you bang away.
….post tails off.
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Bhud
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| Posted: 02:04 - 18 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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I don't know if I buy into either account. No offence intended to anyone by my comment - this is just my impression.
On the one hand, you get the stereotypical noob who feels brave enough to wind it open in a straight line up to 60mph on a clear, dry day, and believes he's a god's gift to motorcycling, so he buys the most macho penis extension he can afford, reinforcing the "I've arrived" feeling he got with the biro ink still fresh on his Mod 2 certificate, and don't you dare tell him a 250 could teach him anything or that a smaller bike is actually more difficult to ride or that anyone willing to ride faster than 100mph on an old boring bike is faster than him (since he doesn't ride any faster than 90). You would be directly hurting his ego by pointing out such things, so don't do it, especially here, where he's found Camelot.
On the other hand, you've got the old bloke reminiscing about the big heavy old bike he rode occasionally in the 80s, and human memory being what it is, he doesn't recall all those times he slowed right down to less than 30 when taking a wet, slimy, gravel-strewn uphill bend on a pothole ridden country road in the winter - he remembers only the best moments from that time, which means about 10% of his riding has stuck in his memory, so the conclusion that there's nothing to the art of riding, nothing to take instruction in or practice over years as long as you have the (very strongly implied) mythos of 'innate talent' must be taken with a pinch of salt. |
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MarJay
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 10:26 - 18 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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| MarJay wrote: | | chickenstrip wrote: | Whereas I just jumped on my 750 Turbo, even before I had a full license, and gave it the beans everywhere
I have been dead ever since, however. |
Probably not far off the performance of my VFR800. Same weight, claimed power of 117bhp, unlikley to actually make that power knowning manufacturer claims of the era. |
You can split hairs about power, and you're probably right. But it seemed quick enough to an 18yo at the time, coming from a 100cc learner bike
Actually, I think they varied a bit on the boost from bike to bike too, but probably not that noticeable. That was the thing about them - the way they delivered the power. I found it absolutely intoxicating back then. Wonder what I'd think if I rode one today?
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 10:36 - 18 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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| Bhud wrote: |
On the other hand, you've got the old bloke reminiscing about the big heavy old bike he rode occasionally in the 80s, and human memory being what it is, he doesn't recall all those times he slowed right down to less than 30 when taking a wet, slimy, gravel-strewn uphill bend on a pothole ridden country road in the winter - he remembers only the best moments from that time, which means about 10% of his riding has stuck in his memory, so the conclusion that there's nothing to the art of riding, nothing to take instruction in or practice over years as long as you have the (very strongly implied) mythos of 'innate talent' must be taken with a pinch of salt. |
That's not me
I was always out on my bikes, covered many thousands of miles, tended to cane them every opportunity I got. True, I wasn't much of a cornering god, though I did try to learn from magazine articles and watching the racers of the time. There was a magazine called "Road Racer" that sometimes talked about riding technique, for e.g. I'd pick up what I could. Many more resources for that kind of thing nowadays.
Plus the bikes demanded more respect - were less forgiving of mistakes.
I remember much of my early days - biking has always been THE interest that totally held my attention, to the neglect of many other things. I remember the shitty days too - paddling the Turbo along a short bit of the motorway on the way to my last week of RAF basic training, between the snow banks on a very slippery surface. All the cars were down to walking pace for those few yards too. I remember all too clearly the shitty commutes, 250 miles of motorway done on freezing, soaking Sunday nights, back up to my trade training base, with inadequate gear, and the 'hot aches', thawing out in the barrack block when I got there, exhausted, and just flopping into bed after a hot drink. But of course I prefer to dwell on the good memories - I'm not a total masochist
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 10:42 - 18 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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| MarJay wrote: | | MikegJ wrote: | You telling me that’s a bad bike? |
Absolutely not. It's a great bike. But it's a bit of a waste to buy such an awesome bike and pootle round at 70.
I agree with your whole 5mph thing, but that's the crux of the problem in a lot of ways. It's an easy bike at 5,10, 30mph, but it's above that where it can get you into shtook. Something heavier and less powerful would have the opposite problem and therefore teach you more about riding. In my opinion anyway. |
i do understand what you're saying MarJay, and agree to some extent. But I just think you came down a bit hard on the guy for buying the bike he wants, making his own decisions, whether they're the best he could have made or not. One of the biggest joys of motorcycling for me has been finding things out for myself - people seem to have to consider every little detail of advice before they can make a decision about anything these days, but I think sometimes you just have to go on impulse, or go by what the heart says - makes life more interesting!
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