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Ninja 250R Vs. ZXR400 for first bike?

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arry
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PostPosted: 08:13 - 13 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't risk the 400 option if you're going to be short on cash. It'll ruin your first experiences of bikes if you end up with a problem child that costs you money and time.

If you're on about sports bikes only - that rules out the Ninja 250 too. It's not a bad little bike but sports bike it ain't. Has fairings sure, but it's a commuter in a frock.

Bite the bullet, whip out a bit more cash for insurance and buy a CBR600F. Then go scare yourself at 13k rpm and come back telling us how your 197 is faster Laughing

That's my advice. If you're gonna go inside, go balls deep.
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Barney626
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PostPosted: 10:23 - 13 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
Barney626 wrote:
Getting a 125 instead of the 250 was an alternate plan for me and one I was very much considering. They have numerous benefits that I'm sure you are all well aware of.


Erm - remind me again. Just to be clear - we're talking of the advantages of a 250 4t over a 125?


Sorry I wasn't very clear there, I mean 125s have advantages over the 250 in a lot of aspects (MPG, smaller/lighter to nip through traffic etc)

@arry

When i say sports bike I mean only for looks. I have heard the ninja 250 is relatively upright which actually sounds quite attractive to me for general commuting and the trip I have planned.

I'm under no illusion that any 300cc+ bike will quite happily shit on the clio even with my extremely limited riding skill.

I'd love to get the CBR600F, but insurance alone is quoting at over £2000 so that just isn't an option.
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el_oso
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PostPosted: 11:27 - 13 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The difference that swayed the CBR250 when up against the ninja was that it was a single rather than a twin, therefore it's noticeably more torquey. It meant that you didn't need to rev the shit out of it to get it to move.

As a bonus I was getting 80+ mpg out of the thing through stop start London rush hour traffic. I didn't own the ninja so don't have a scientific comparison, however fuelly suggests low to mid 60's mpg.

Try more bikes on the insurance quotes, SV650S was also particularly cheap not that long ago.
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Barney626
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PostPosted: 11:44 - 13 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

el_oso wrote:
The difference that swayed the CBR250 when up against the ninja was that it was a single rather than a twin, therefore it's noticeably more torquey. It meant that you didn't need to rev the shit out of it to get it to move.

As a bonus I was getting 80+ mpg out of the thing through stop start London rush hour traffic. I didn't own the ninja so don't have a scientific comparison, however fuelly suggests low to mid 60's mpg.

Try more bikes on the insurance quotes, SV650S was also particularly cheap not that long ago.


Insurance for the 650S isn't crazy. Being almost 15 years old are they not just going to have the same problems as the ZXR400?

One of these right? https://www.gumtree.com/p/suzuki-motorbikes/suzuki-sv650s-bargain-/1302023238
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B5234FT
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PostPosted: 11:56 - 13 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not just about age, its about how many of them were sold and how they are used.

A 400 sports was a tiny market segment a long time ago and they have since been either thrashed, or cherished, meaning theyre expensive, or fucked.

An SV650S was a legit UK model as recently as ten years ago and is a decent bike but not one people care too much about, so they occupy the middle ground, well maintained, regular use, sesibly priced. You wont find too many garaged, polished, summer only SVs....
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Barney626
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PostPosted: 12:03 - 13 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

B5234FT wrote:
It's not just about age, its about how many of them were sold and how they are used.

A 400 sports was a tiny market segment a long time ago and they have since been either thrashed, or cherished, meaning theyre expensive, or fucked.

An SV650S was a legit UK model as recently as ten years ago and is a decent bike but not one people care too much about, so they occupy the middle ground, well maintained, regular use, sesibly priced. You wont find too many garaged, polished, summer only SVs....


So the V reg one I linked would be a decent option? I only like the looks when they have the fairing on the front around the exhaust exit...
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:06 - 13 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

dydey90 wrote:
If you don’t ruin the ZXR, it’ll go up in value.

Sellers, and in particular dealers, are certainly asking more for them. At some point though, the people who are able to afford the prices won't be able to contort themselves onto them. It'll be a bike made for 20 year olds being passed around a market of 50-somethings.

For now though they probably will still find a market. The Ninja 250 will not. It doesn't fit well into any license category and they're tough sells. My 6 year old 4500 mile example went up for sale at £2700 and after a month of no takers, I eventually took pity on the seller and gave him £1300 for it. I doubt I'd be able to shift it for over £1K now though. It's a quirky nostalgic indulgence, and I wrote off the cost before I bought it.


arry wrote:
Bite the bullet, whip out a bit more cash for insurance and buy a CBR600F.

Impossibru on A2. Tut Tut FZS600 is (arguably) as good as you're getting.


Barney626 wrote:
Cheers again for the replies. Particularly to Teflon-Mike which I'm not gonna quote as it'll probably take up the entire page Laughing (I did read it all though).

Interesting history on the 400s and definitely helps put it all in perspective.

I didn't read it either because Mike... well, he certainly spins a good yarn. Usually one that he heard in a pub in 1987 and hasn't bothered to verify or update since. The first step on the road to enlightenment isn't always in the right direction.


Barney626 wrote:
The main catch with the 500/600s is insurance tends to be quite a bit more expensive (About 50% more expensive)...

Are you trying www.thebikeinsurer.co.uk? Do it in a new, private browsing window for each bike, and use a fake name and address a few doors down.

I'll note that there are no 600cc sportsbikes that you can ride on an A2 licence. The ER6F or GXS650F have the looks but not the go (not that they're bad bikes, but they're commuters in frocks). The FZS600 is right at the limit of your allowable performance. SV650S is a decent compromise.


el_oso wrote:
The difference that swayed the CBR250 when up against the ninja was that it was a single rather than a twin, therefore it's noticeably more torquey. It meant that you didn't need to rev the shit out of it to get it to move.

I agree that the CBR250 is a more sensible choice, which is why I went for the Ninja 250. Bouncing it off the 14,000 limiter is rather the point. It's great fun for abusing in short doses when I'm in the mood, and the engine is actually surprisingly tractable too once you're moving. But as a single do-anything bike, I wouldn't really recommend it over bigger engined alternatives.


el_oso wrote:
Try more bikes on the insurance quotes, SV650S was also particularly cheap not that long ago.

A pointy SV650S with the fairly common fairing lowers is a decent shout. It's got that God awful crunched up sporty riding position that OP wants, and looks pretty good when fully dressed up. Loads around, cheap parts, easy to sell on: what's not to like?

Barney626 wrote:
I think out of the two kawis, the 250 is the more sensible choice as it's newer and injected. But honestly the 400 just looks like a lot more fun...

It will be more fun, but also more of a risk. But you're 20, so now's the time to ignore the right choices (ER6F, SV650S, FZS600) and go for glory.

If a unmolested runner comes up, I'd bag it. Just get decent breakdown cover and don't get too emotionally attached.
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arry
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PostPosted: 12:20 - 13 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arsebiscuits - missed the A2 bit.

Well in that case the little Ninja is where I'd go.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:35 - 13 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
Well in that case the little Ninja is where I'd go.

Not for touring on in company with 400s and 650s. I mean, it's doable, but other things will do it better.


Barney626 wrote:

Oh, sorry, I hadn't spotted that.

No, not at that price and mileage. That's the older carbed model, colloquially a "curvy". The only inherent issue that I'm aware of it that the front cylinder spark plug recess can get flooded. But at that age and mileage you're going to struggle to find anyone who will want to take it on as a 9th owner.

Try something more like £1500 for a 2007 fuel injected "pointy" with 30,000 miles and a fresh MOT put on yesterday. Worn brake discs all round, but still usable and should be no other surprises.

I'm not saying bag that one, just that there are loads around and you can pick and choose. You won't be doing that with the ZXR400 or Ninja 250.

Actually, I'd strongly advise against buying anything until you're licensed up or at least confident that biking is for you and you're going to pass. It's a very different experience from driving and not everyone takes to it.
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Last edited by Rogerborg on 13:47 - 13 Jun 2018; edited 1 time in total
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Nexus Icon
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PostPosted: 13:30 - 13 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
arry wrote:
Well in that case the little Ninja is where I'd go.

Not for touring on in company with 400s and 650s. I mean, it's doable, but other things will do it better.


Barney626 wrote:

Oh, sorry, I hadn't spotted that.

No, not at that price and mileage. That's the older carbed model, colloquially a "curvy". The only inherent issue that I'm aware of it that the front cylinder spark plug recess can get flooded. But at that age and mileage you're going to struggle to find anyone who will want to take it on as a 9th owner.

Try something more like £1500 for a 2007 fuel injected "pointy" with 30,000 miles and a fresh MOT put on yesterday. Work brake discs all round, but still usable and should be no other surprises.

I'm not saying bag that one, just that there are loads around and you can pick and choose. You won't be doing that with the ZXR400 or Ninja 250.

Actually, I'd strongly advise against buying anything until you're licensed up or at least confident that biking is for you and you're going to pass. It's a very different experience from driving and not everyone takes to it.


I know I'm not supposed to but I really like the pointy SV650S and, if I were the OP, that's where my money would be going.

The SFV I had restricted to 33bhp, when I passed my test back in the day, would still breach 100mph (on a runway, natch) so I imagine with 40 something the lighter SV would be fast enough for any newcomer's needs.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:50 - 13 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nexus Icon wrote:
The SFV I had restricted to 33bhp, when I passed my test back in the day, would still breach 100mph (on a runway, natch) so I imagine with 40 something the lighter SV would be fast enough for any newcomer's needs.

Plus, I'd imagine[*] that it would take restriction better than a revvy IL4 400, if you're going to restrict it, and if you can even get the carb rubbers off and on again.

[*] Imagination may not reflect reality.
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 14:05 - 13 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’d buy the 400 but that’s cause I can only own and ride things that interest me. If you are going to make a purely practical decision then it’s always going to have four wheels.

Also I’m a very competent mechanic so cracked frames and engine swops are a non-issue.
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thunderwow
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PostPosted: 14:22 - 13 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barney626 wrote:

I've been as detailed as I can be on budgeting including repairs/tyres/oil and taking into account I won't be riding it in winter. Even with all that taken into account, it still almost breaks even for itself. That's for the bike, a years insurance/tax and a full set of gear.


I'm not trying to piss on your chips, but if you think you've budgeted enough, budget even more.

Once you've bought your bike, whatever it is you buy, you'll get bored of it/decide you want something more (or less) sporty/faster/comfortable/practical and you'll buy a new bike.

Then you'll decide that you want to ride through winter after all, so you'll buy a new jacket and gloves.

You'll replace a tyre and get a puncture 800 miles later, and need to get it patched or buy another replacement.

You'll decide that what your bike really needs is an aftermarket end-can, and K&N filters.

Then you'll realise that you cannot have too many bikes and buy another one, along with some new gear to wear on it.

Eventually, your girlfriend/boyfriend/wife/significant other will leave you, and you'll sit in the shower crying one morning wondering where all your money has gone.

On the upside, you'll still have motorbikes to ride Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 16:02 - 13 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barney626 wrote:
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:


Erm - remind me again. Just to be clear - we're talking of the advantages of a 250 4t over a 125?


Sorry I wasn't very clear there, I mean 125s have advantages over the 250 in a lot of aspects (MPG, smaller/lighter to nip through traffic etc)


All negligible.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 16:56 - 13 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd keep the Clio too, especially if it's a mint example, and you've done alot of work on it or made it your own.

I could sell all my bikes, parts, workshop equipment and car etc and then I could probably buy a new Fireblade SP for cash, update my riding gear and buy a years insurance. But I wouldn't get rid of half of my old shit, and I fail to see how new heavier cars are better than my 24yr old Rover? I also wouldn't really enjoy a 185bhp Fireblade or similar enough to sell out my hobbies and interests to have one.

For OP a cheap and tidy used Naturally A2 compliant bike is a good bet. The SV650S if you must ride a castrated bike also isn't a bad bet, and as Roger said it's got the sports riding position too. I've never ridden an SV but all the cult hate for them is unjustified IMO. Ok it's got budget suspension and very budget build quality. But a suspension and brake overhaul/rework and they are a light slim sporty bike with mini big twin thunder for relatively pennies.

I'd ride a well sorted one if sporty road bikes were still my thing.
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el_oso
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PostPosted: 17:26 - 13 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nexus Icon wrote:

I know I'm not supposed to but I really like the pointy SV650S and, if I were the OP, that's where my money would be going.


It was a great bike for what it was. Cheap, but not so poorly built that it fell apart, and quick enough to keep up with the IL4 sports bikes well into the insta-ban speeds. Away from a set of lights the SV would out accelerate an IL4 assuming a mediocre rider.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 19:09 - 13 Jun 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
Yeah not having that, Mike. I've yet to find a road - rural, urban or unmade - that I couldn't absolutely destroy any 4t 125 on, even in my 15 year old 1.8 ford focus.

I think you missed a couple of points; first up it wasn't a 4T 125, it was a 1ooKg Kawasaki AR twosmoke. Second he had to take 1.8GTi back to daddy when he was done.......
CoIncidentally, his brother wrote the thing off not long after.... Laughing
A~N~D I may have given him a slightly tougher task, roads we went down were barely single track, and I knew them.. he didn't!
Yup thing would have eaten the bike for breakfast on a typical A~Road, before scamera boxes, if he was brave enough and daft enough, and not worried about his mum asking why there were thorn scratches in the pearlescent paint!

He was also sat in 1o points .. and didn't keep licence long after!!!
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Calumh96
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PostPosted: 15:42 - 26 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am on an a2 licence also and i must say the thought of a 250/300 did cross my mind.
Why did i not settle for one? Because i felt like it is a bike i would grow out of quickly. They are the same or similar size to their 125 baby brothers so i fear they don't feel much different to sitting on a 125 and are easily mistaken as 125 by bystanders. Maybe this is just my pride but i like to feel I'm on a big bike and i would be a little offended if it was mistaken for the 125.
Also although they are more than capable of motorway speeds from what i have seen they take a little while to reach the 70 mark just like the 125.
After much consideration i ended up with a suzuki sv650s. There are many good alternatives for a2 bikes which you can restrict. I opted for this choice as i felt i wouldn't grow out of the bike this way eager for more.

You can view all of your options here - https://a2bikes.co.uk/
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The last post was made 5 years, 32 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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