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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 12:19 - 08 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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MarJay wrote: | There is definitely a meditative element to motorcycling. Similar to Tai Chi or Kung Fu to be honest... |
It's the concentration on one thing to the exclusion of all else. Although the "one thing" is actually made up of a number of elements, but they come together as one with experience and practice. ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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pig hog |
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pig hog Scooby Slapper
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Ribenapigeon |
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Ribenapigeon Super Spammer
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Pigeon |
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Pigeon World Chat Champion
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Posted: 23:14 - 10 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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chickenstrip wrote: |
It's the concentration on one thing to the exclusion of all else. Although the "one thing" is actually made up of a number of elements, but they come together as one with experience and practice. |
I have a selective memory.....it selects what to remember and it's often the random conversations from 3 years ago in a cafe that stick.
Knowing this, I decided to make notes as I read a bunch of books because if I didn't, a few months later it would mostly be gone from memory unfortunately.
https://i.imgur.com/mlhhrBD.jpg
Some of my notes were:
me wrote: |
Meditation
Are "you" your thoughts, are "you" your feelings? - Answer, neither.
Meditation is a state of thoughtless awareness. Anything can be the subject of meditation. Typically its breath, body sensation or mantra. Meditation works with Attention and Peripheral Awareness to cultivate stable attention and mindfulness (optimized interaction between Attention and Peripheral Awareness).
Attention is focus on a single thing, to asses it (is that snow falling).
Peripheral Awareness takes in all surrounding evidence (its summer, it must be pollen).
Peripheral Awareness looks at everything, then passes something to Attention.
Peripheral Awareness less self centred compared to Attention.
Most people over use Attention because its under conscious control.
They can be introspective as well as extrospective ie thoughts and feelings as well as outside world.
Consciousness is a limited & shared power source between Peripheral Awareness and Attention.
Too stressed, we focus on Attention to detriment of Peripheral Awareness and lose perspective.
Too relaxed and dullness sets in, no interest in anything.
The goal of meditation is to increase consciousness (the available power to both Peripheral Awareness and Attention) via brain exercise to sustain Attention at the same time as maintaining Peripheral Awareness.
To reduce the dominance of the conscious mind over the unconscious.
If you focus meditation on fixing a problem (as opposed to acceptance). It triggers Doing mode and thoughts of "its not working". Disappointment is most likely. Instead, the goal of meditation is simply the practice of meditation. Do not judge each practice as failure if its a struggle, as each practice is a success regardless of how you feel about it at the time.
Do not fear or seek to suppress unwanted thoughts / emotions, instead befriend and be curious through meditation.
Observe the mind pattern / the body location of the highest intensity of feeling. Breathe in and focus on that area, note how it changes on the in breath. Say to self " its ok to feel xyz".
Find some aspect of the feeling you like eg tingling or warmth and focus on it.
By letting go of the need to fix things. Rational calmness can return as healing takes place.
Consequences of meditation over time:
Acceptance - Releasing the need to control, less likely to create internal conflict that then might have spilled out externally. Feel more open, less afraid, more joyful. Acceptance of what is rather than fighting it.
Clarity - Understand the details, bring more depth to thoughts / emotions, seeing things in a new light. Recognising what is true.
Compassion - To treat internal and external experiences with a light-hearted, warmth. Life isn't black / white, good / bad. Its all about the grey and that's ok. Smile, laugh at yourself while giving yourself a hug. This will improve how you treat others.
Concentration - To choose and be absorbed in something, merging with it, bringing internal stillness and armour to outside interruptions.
Add a healthy dose of kindness, compassion and forgiveness (for you and others) to meditation to activate more creative, open, calm, empathetic and happier approach systems rather than negative pattern creation aversion systems around guilt, anxiety, anger, frustration and stress.
Over time, observed feelings / sensations will lessen their intensity and frequency. When we stop claiming, holding / obsessing over emotions and thoughts, we feel at peace internally and emotionally look outwards to reconnect with life around us. Through the day, try and keep that focus on the body in all aspects. When mind wanders, ask yourself "Where are you?". Reply "I'm here”, and bring attention back to now. When hit by a trigger, say “I don’t have to react to this” observe/note the emotion (don’t resist or judge) and return attention to the body and focus on task.
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I'll be honest, reading that back and remembering how far I'd got last year. It feels a long way off right now.
By IT, I mean "open, calm, empathetic, creative and happier".
Definitely wading around in "guilt, anxiety, anger, frustration and stress."
I wonder if stopping for 6 months and taking up drinking was the cause. Or if my brain just figured out how to be a bellend again.
Or was it the very nature of learning about something that activates the approach systems. That actually the key (if there is one) is to keep actively learning new things, or placing yourself in new situations where you have to be open to them to learn from them.
Oh well. Keep practicing and will find out.
Apologies for me me me thread jack. Hopefully something of interest there maybe. |
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 00:10 - 11 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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Imo, the more you think about meditation, the harder it gets. My approach was, it sounds beneficial; I think I can benefit from it. So I'll try it.
Having been taught a method, I didn't question the method, or even the 'mechanics' of how it might work. I just took the technique and practised it as instructed. It is very, very simple. I don't want to clutter it by analysing what I am doing, or why I am doing it. I already accepted that it might be of some use.
It's like taking a watch apart to see how it works. Once it's apart, it doesn't work anymore. Or like seeing one of those things that can't be unseen (Ste's links? ).
The point of meditation is not to analyse it. It is to do it, and enjoy the benefits. If you don't get any benefit from it, time to try something else perhaps. ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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struan80 |
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struan80 World Chat Champion
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pig hog |
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pig hog Scooby Slapper
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Posted: 14:18 - 11 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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struan80 wrote: | I'm apparently bi-polar, so meditation is good and bad, sometimes both at the same time, but never boring.
My mind just cannot stop enough to consider meditation. |
Meditation is just meditation, there is no good or bad other than the labels you give to it. Correct meditation, in terms of correct posture, attitude and attention, is something different (ie falling asleep isn't meditation, it's just falling asleep) but as long as this is maintained, the activity of your mind should not be a barrier to meditation.
Just sit with the present moment and watch everything. Sometimes this is a little harder if your mind is racing and it's easier to get swept away and caught up in your thoughts but this is why we practice. If you get distracted, when you catch yourself, return to the present, fix your posture and carry on. ____________________ A2 Licence: 18/10/2013
A Licence: 01/12/2015
'13 Yamaha XJ6N '15 Daytona 675R / '16 MT-07 dead / '17 MT-07 / '18 MT-10 |
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Pigeon |
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Pigeon World Chat Champion
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 23:14 - 11 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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Pigeon wrote: | chickenstrip wrote: |
The point of meditation is not to analyse it. It is to do it, and enjoy the benefits. If you don't get any benefit from it, time to try something else perhaps. |
That's how my brain works though, I want to understand what is happening rather than just letting it be.
I was so amazed by the effects last year (over a 6 month period, but triggered by a couple of holy shit moments) I wanted to know what was happening to my brain. Could I make changes, was this HOLY SHIT moment actually only 2% of what was possible etc |
I'd say with this one thing, just don't. Just accept what you get from it. Let it be that if you do benefit from it, that's enough to know.
Quote: | To say its not working now isn't true exactly. Meditation gives me extreme muscle relaxation because my mind relaxes.
What I'm not getting is last year I had months of increased peripheral awareness. Being able to see things and act in a more intelligent way.
Crucially, emotions were balanced and thus not clouding judgement.
In other words, something about my practice is using too much focus at the cost of peripheral awareness.
But will still with it as is for another month and then consider changing it. |
This happens with meditation. You get those moments, and then nothing like it for ages, and it seems almost...difficult*. But just carry on, don't change anything, as long as you are practicing the technique correctly, and eventually those moments should come again. As pig hog says, this is why we practice meditation. It is like any skill you take up. The more you do it, eventually, the more you should reach those "transcendental" levels. That's not to say you should sit and meditate all day every day. It depends on what you want to achieve. Enlightenment? Even if that's a thing, you'd pretty much have to dedicate your life to it going by the various monks, yogis etc who do that. What us mere mortals are trying to achieve is a state of mind that we can conjure up when we feel we need it in everyday life - high stress moments - and a generally more stress-free existence. But we have to live our lives too**. Unless, as I said elsewhere, you want to go and sit in a cave in the mountains for the rest of your life or something
*It's called "plateauing". It happens in many disciplines, guitar playing for instance. For a while, you have a period where your playing soars, you learn loads of new stuff, your technique improves, everything is going great. Then suddenly, it all stops, and you don't seem to be getting anywhere anymore. Everything is difficult, a chore. But keep working at it, and eventually, you break through, and the advances begin to happen again.
**This is why it can be a good idea to be taught it properly by someone qualified. With TM, they explain much of this, and you can go back for checks if you have questions or problems with the practice.
Maybe forms of meditation other than TM are different in some way though. Don't know, no experience with any other technique. ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 23:37 - 11 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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MarJay wrote: | There is definitely a meditative element to motorcycling. Similar to Tai Chi or Kung Fu to be honest... |
Agreed. It's not focusing on nothing. It's focusing deeply on one thing. "deep mind".
Once you have learned the form to the point of it being in muscle memory, it also becomes a form of meditation.
I do a meditation at the end of my Tai Chi sessions. We do set pattern ones, usually either the "vital paths" or "five clouds". They are based on Daoist practices.
They do not involve thinking about nothing, they involve focusing deeply on the underlying internal sensations of the body. So, for example, when the mind has quietened sufficiently, you become aware of sensations of tingling, fullness and warmth in ther hands and feet. These are the constantly firing pain, pressure and temperature receptors in the skin coming into your awareness. You should be able ti find this very quickly. Relaxing everything you can relax and taking three of the deepest in then out breaths you can manage should bring them to the fore.
You feel relaxed and energised after completing them. Maintaining that degree of deep concentration is difficult without superficial thoughts creeping in but an intention for the mind to go deeper and repeating the practice is what matters. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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Pigeon |
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Pigeon World Chat Champion
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Posted: 22:54 - 12 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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stinkwheel wrote: | So, for example, when the mind has quietened sufficiently, you become aware of sensations of tingling, fullness and warmth in ther hands and feet.
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This is the basis of my focus (along with breathing in and circulating "the light"), partly by accident. Having chronic anxiety, spent years trying to get away from it via various means (diet (food and supplements), exercise, brain training, prescription drugs, diversion techniques, deep breathing, CBT, alcohol etc).
Anyway, it was during body scanning in meditation that I realised anxiety actually feels amazing if you remove negative judgement.
Afterwards it seemed obvious that anxiety is just adrenaline considered negative, look at it favourably and its excitement.
So meditation took the thing I've hated for 30 years and turned it into something that I enjoy.
Over time the anxiety has itself massively reduced (due to constantly befriending anxiety during each meditation).
And oddly, I miss the massive body rushes and pulses now.
Have to focus a lot more on it.
So yeah. Staring at eyelids and watching ones own body for 10 minutes a day managed to do in a month what multi billion dollar industries didn't in years......for obvious reasons I guess. |
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Bhud |
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Bhud World Chat Champion
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Posted: 00:09 - 13 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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Amazed at this thread. So even you 80s/90s nutcases are on the soy. LOL
Nothing I would like less than living inside my own head, watching and being conscious of my thoughts and sensations. When those times creep up on me, I take my bike out, go and redline it (I don't care - I can rebuild the engine) and ride like a cock. Maybe I am a cock, but I'm cool with that.
Hate meditation and inner life with a passion. I feel it stole my youth from me. |
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 01:31 - 13 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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Bhud wrote: | Amazed at this thread. So even you 80s/90s nutcases are on the soy. LOL
Nothing I would like less than living inside my own head, watching and being conscious of my thoughts and sensations. When those times creep up on me, I take my bike out, go and redline it (I don't care - I can rebuild the engine) and ride like a cock. Maybe I am a cock, but I'm cool with that.
Hate meditation and inner life with a passion. I feel it stole my youth from me. |
U wot m8?
How's that then?
Meditation isn't supposed to replace your life - necessarily. It's just a method of relieving stress, being a bit calmer. But it didn't stop me from going nuts on a bike when I wanted to...which was lots
Actually, nowadays, I don't really feel I need it. I'm not the most stressed out person on th...... ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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Posted: 19:14 - 13 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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Ahh. That's why I study Tai Chi. Keep working at it and by the time you're 80, you land up being a wizened little martial arts master with a long beard and pot belly, able to throw people round the room with little apparent effort while cackling madly.
Helps to have an aim.
I've got the long beard and pot belly off-pat already. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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Pigeon |
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Pigeon World Chat Champion
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MarJay |
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MarJay But it's British!
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pig hog |
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pig hog Scooby Slapper
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Posted: 14:42 - 15 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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Bhud wrote: | Amazed at this thread. So even you 80s/90s nutcases are on the soy. LOL
Nothing I would like less than living inside my own head, watching and being conscious of my thoughts and sensations. When those times creep up on me, I take my bike out, go and redline it (I don't care - I can rebuild the engine) and ride like a cock. Maybe I am a cock, but I'm cool with that.
Hate meditation and inner life with a passion. I feel it stole my youth from me. |
It sounds as if you would benefit from practice more than anybody. Where else do you live if not inside your own head? There's no running away from that because you take your thoughts, your feelings and your 'self' with you everywhere you go.
When you refer to 'inner life', what do you mean? 'Inner life' and 'outer life' aren't two separate things--they're part of the same life and one will always affect the other. If you can't sit and face your own thoughts, seeing them for what they really are; if you can't accept yourself as yourself, how do you expect to be happy and comfortable because everything else you do in life is simply a distraction.
You say you're comfortable being a cock but you're probably not a cock, you just act like one and it's such a shame that you feel that have to (presumably) take your frustrations out on the world around you, purely because you can't accept what happens in your own mind.
Once you realise that your thoughts and emotions don't define who you are as a person, you can stop trying to shut them all out and relax a little. ____________________ A2 Licence: 18/10/2013
A Licence: 01/12/2015
'13 Yamaha XJ6N '15 Daytona 675R / '16 MT-07 dead / '17 MT-07 / '18 MT-10 |
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Old Thread Alert!
There is a gap of 1 year, 285 days between these two posts... |
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Nobby the Bastard |
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Nobby the Bastard Harley Gaydar
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hellkat |
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hellkat Super Spammer
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Posted: 14:03 - 25 Dec 2020 Post subject: |
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Aw, no. It looked like it might be an interesting thread.
Didn't notice it before.
____________________ Not nearly as interesting in real life. |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB World Chat Champion
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 3 years, 121 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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