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Brexit: What do you think will happen?

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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 18:53 - 15 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
The talk of the £billions and the remain lot is shocking. Do they not realise just how much that is and what it could fix?

Have todays findings up here: Northumberland County Council are skint. The new Council Tax bills were posted out this week. Previously those out of work etc paid nothing (savings dependent).
The council just slapped 8% tax rates on the unemployed. I suppose it'll encourage people into work yeah? Guess what? It also applies to the completely disabled - those who will never work. Those who cannot fight for themselves and rely on others. It now means that the most vulnerable people in Northumberland will go without food/heat/care.
Let that sink in for a second - the British government are so skint that the most vulnerable people in society will go without, just so that May can offer money to the EU.
Personally I'm appalled at this government. They play with big money as if it's their own and right at the bottom of the pile people are dying. Bastards.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 19:00 - 15 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay warmly commending the government’s Brexit extension plan to The House. Moments later he voted against it! WTF?

https://twitter.com/timoncheese/status/1106283203575336961
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 19:35 - 15 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
bhinso wrote:
Riejufixing wrote:
Is that a reply to my post of 14:26 - 15 Mar 2019? Just wondering.

Not at all no, there are points raised which necessitate a sensible debate. I'm referring to other comments which have been made saying things like
"Without a deal, there will be NO food. The UK will starve to death"
"Brexit IS racism"

etc.

Really?


Oh, OK. Yes, I think the problems with "hard" Brexit are somewhat exaggerated, but I also think there certainly would be problems, which are to a large extent avoidable.

My real problm with "hard" Brexit is how very unlikely it is to happen. I do *NOT* want to be stuck in theEU, and I don't want the "permanent custooms union" that Mr Corbyn's mob like so much, either. That is not a proper Brexit IMO.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 19:49 - 15 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
bhinso wrote:
Although I would question 3a)

Why will we end up paying the EU £20billion anyway if we leave without a deal?


It's hard to be sure of the exact figure. We did we sign the 2013 regulation setting the Medium-Term Budgetary Framework ending 2020, so it's likely that we'd pay two years' worth of budgetary contributions, plus relevant ongoing pension contributions, so half is possibly a reasonable guess. There are issues with saying "We're out, we aren't going to pay our committments", too, which were mentioned in the HoL report of 2017[1].



[1] https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201617/ldselect/ldeucom/125/12503.htm#_idTextAnchor003
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 20:09 - 15 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay warmly commending the government’s Brexit extension plan to The House. Moments later he voted against it! WTF?


Indeed. His partial statement at that time was:

Stephen Barclay

I have two minutes left, and I have given way a couple of times already.

It was Tony Blair who said that the way to stop Brexit was first to vote against the Prime Minister’s deal, then to vote against no deal, then to seek a long extension. In his votes on Tuesday, Wednesday and tonight, that is the precise script followed by the Leader of the Opposition. Perhaps he could share with us whether it was Tony, Peter or Alastair who wrote it for him. How proud those envoys of the elite must be with his late conversion to the cause. His approach has become more Davos than Don Valley.

Some Members will remember the Banksy painting that went through the shredder. Indeed, my hon. Friend the Member for Ribble Valley (Mr Evans) had it on his Christmas card. The reality of the Leader of the Opposition’s approach this week is that he is shredding the votes of 17.4 million people by turning his back on the referendum, going back on his word in his own manifesto and failing to listen even to his own Front Benchers. The hon. Member for Ashton-under-Lyne (Angela Rayner) said just last night:

“I think that it would be disastrous for us as Members of Parliament to go back to the people”.

That is the very issue that others in his party are campaigning for.

This is a time for responsibility, yet we have a motion from the Leader of the Opposition that ducks the choice, ducks the time, ducks the clarity and ducks any sense of national responsibility. It is time for this House to act in the national interest. It is time to put forward an extension that is realistic. I commend the Government motion to the House.

(Source: Hansard 14 March 2019 Vol 656 col 628 at: 4:51)

I have emphasised an interesting point.

What do you think of Mr Blair's idea?

Last edited by Riejufixing on 00:20 - 16 Mar 2019; edited 1 time in total
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 20:25 - 15 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
OMG! Isn't it amazing that St Blair. after leaving office 10+ years ago, now multimillianairre charging £Godknowswhat a speech is STILL having such a huge influence.
Any pleb having done offences equivalent to his would be imprissoned
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iooi
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PostPosted: 20:35 - 15 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
May dropped the ball big style.

When presenting her option. She should have said either For this or Against = No deal....

She would have romped home.

Even business is now leaning towards no deal just to stop the uncertainty a delay will bring.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 20:40 - 15 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Blair's idea? It's an obvious point. Keep voting negatively to paralyse the process. It's damaging and lazy. A House full of "decision-makers" voting for inaction won't endear itself to the electorate.
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 21:06 - 15 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Meanwhile Blair keeps racking up the ££££...

Personally I have sympathy for TM. She's no Blair and trying to do the best she can. But 1 country against 27, and also with the proviso that "If we give UK a decent deal then others will want to go" = no contest.

TM appealed for help from other parties back in Jan, but her mistake was that she should have done that two years ago.
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iooi
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PostPosted: 21:50 - 15 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
. A House full of "decision-makers" voting for inaction won't endear itself to the electorate.


Er I think that point has long passed.

How 400 ish can stand up and say fuck you 17.5 million who voted to leave... Is a joke.

I've yet to find one person who will vote for our sitting MP given his cynical refusal to do what his constituents voted for in the referendum... And many of these voted him in..
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 22:04 - 15 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think a chunk of the problem is, if we leave the EU, then our politicians will have to learn how to run a country, which they know they're not capable of doing, so they'd rather let the EU do it instead - they can still draw their salary and privileges then, whilst giving the impression of being in charge.

I'm going for the gold medal in cynicism Smile
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 22:16 - 15 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
But you're absolutely correct - the EU is a sticking plaster that the British government use to fix failings in the UK.

My prediction now? People burning everything. I love a good fire.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 23:08 - 15 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sister Sledge wrote:
But you're absolutely correct - the EU is a sticking plaster that the British government use to fix failings in the UK.

My prediction now? People burning everything. I love a good fire.


The further a place is from government, the less it will get. For LibLabCon in England, London is the top priority, followed by Oxbridge, then everyone else. They have calculated that nobody can be bothered to go all that way to do anything about it.
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Riejufixing
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Joined: 24 Jun 2018
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PostPosted: 00:05 - 16 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
bhinso wrote:
OMG! Isn't it amazing that St Blair. after leaving office 10+ years ago, now multimillianairre charging £Godknowswhat a speech is STILL having such a huge influence.
Any pleb having done offences equivalent to his would be imprissoned


His security costs are enormous, and I don't think he goes out without "company".

What appalls me is that his way of avoiding Brexit is being followed, and clamoured for by people who declare themselves so much against "the deal".

Even when presented with "Mr Blair says to avoid Brexit, vote against the deal", Brexiters in parliament and outside, including here, *still* do just what he says will prevent Brexit.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 00:07 - 16 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Blair's idea? It's an obvious point. Keep voting negatively to paralyse the process. It's damaging and lazy. A House full of "decision-makers" voting for inaction won't endear itself to the electorate.


So to get us out of the EU they should vote for the WA. If they don't, than as said before - I can see a very soft Brexit indeed, or no Brexit.

Edit: The other point, about not endearing themselves to the electorate; that does not matter. By the time they've been kicked out, or the houses of parliament have been burnt down, or whatever, we will have lost the chance to exit the EU.

Last edited by Riejufixing on 00:15 - 16 Mar 2019; edited 1 time in total
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 00:12 - 16 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
bhinso wrote:
Personally I have sympathy for TM. She's no Blair and trying to do the best she can. But 1 country against 27, and also with the proviso that "If we give UK a decent deal then others will want to go" = no contest.


So do I, but it's not "1 country against 27" that's the problem. The problem is MPs not taking the one way that would flippin' well get us out of the EU, which has been negotiated!

Would I rather stay in the EU for a couple of years "to sort things out then leave properly", or would I rather take the WA, exit the EU, and sort things out if need be from the outside?

Well, you know my choice. I want to leave the EU, not give Blair, Soros, all the antidemocratic richboi remainers, plus Labour and the EU the chance of 2 more years to destroy Brexit.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 00:44 - 16 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Riejufixing wrote:
The other point, about not endearing themselves to the electorate; that does not matter. By the time they've been kicked out, or the houses of parliament have been burnt down, or whatever, we will have lost the chance to exit the EU.

It matters insofar as there will be the same system of representative democracy after Brexit, and even if the current lot disappear overnight the public are likely to view their successors with the same suspicion.

Riejufixing wrote:
The problem is MPs not taking the one way that would flippin' well get us out of the EU, which has been negotiated!

The problem is there isn't a range of options, there is one deal, take it or leave it, and it's too late to make changes which might have given it wider appeal.

Edit: because too many quote marks!

Last edited by Kawasaki Jimbo on 00:53 - 16 Mar 2019; edited 1 time in total
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 00:50 - 16 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Riejufixing wrote:
The problem is there isn't a range of options, there is one deal, take it or leave it, and it's too late to make changes which might have given it wider appeal.


I did not write that.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 00:52 - 16 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Riejufixing wrote:
The other point, about not endearing themselves to the electorate; that does not matter. By the time they've been kicked out, or the houses of parliament have been burnt down, or whatever, we will have lost the chance to exit the EU.

It matters insofar as there will be the same system of representative democracy after Brexit, and even if the current lot disappear overnight the public are likely to view their successors with the same suspicion.

Maybe so, but I'd rather leave the EU than stay in. After we leave, at least we can change the people who govern us.
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Val
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PostPosted: 01:26 - 16 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
The problem is UK has Parliament that is paralysed by a lie.

For the record Swiss done 400 referenda not 1, and they say EU2016 ref. was misleading lie hence invalid.

Putting lies on ballot paper is literally NOT democracy.

Say a vote for removing taxes: No means taxation system stays - real option. Yes is new fantasy world without taxes.

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/take-it-from-the-swiss-the-brexit-referendum-wasnt-legitimate
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 01:57 - 16 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Riejufixing wrote:

Maybe so, but I'd rather leave the EU than stay in. After we leave, at least we can change the people who govern us.


But it might be better to have a blatant non-delivery of Brexit than a delivery of a non-Brexit.

Riejufixing wrote:
Val wrote:
(tumbleweed)


Did someone just say something? No? Ok, Zzzzzzz.


Who is "Val"? Laughing
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 03:21 - 16 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Val wrote:

For the record Swiss done 400 referenda not 1, and they say EU2016 ref. was misleading lie hence invalid.

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/take-it-from-the-swiss-the-brexit-referendum-wasnt-legitimate


That's such a lazy piece of journalism, there's more holes in those arguments than a big slice of Emmental, you know, Swiss cheese.

Try again.
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cdlxxvi
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PostPosted: 09:13 - 16 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Riejufixing wrote:

Maybe so, but I'd rather leave the EU than stay in. After we leave, at least we can change the people who govern us.


So if it was EU preventing us from changing the monarch and having an elected HoL? Very Happy
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