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nbuuifx |
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nbuuifx Derestricted Danger
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stevo as b4 |
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stevo as b4 World Chat Champion
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Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 10:37 - 18 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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First up, if it has T-Shocks, It's not a DT.. its a 175 'Enduro' or 'Trail'
The DT tag is the engine code, as the frame and engine numbers starting CT... the DT engine was the next generation of engine, and was blazoned on the first mono-shock 250's, and bequithed to other models in the dirt-bike arena as every-one wanted a mono-shock.
As sold, it would have simply been badged Yamaha 175 or Yamaha 175 Enduro, probably on the heat guard grill on the high-level exhaust, just under the seat.
The 'DT 175' came along in 1978, by which time they had made a year and a halfs worth of mono-shock DT175's with tubular rather than box section swing-arms and flat side panels and other detail differences, all still badged 'Enduro' if they wore anything more than Yamaha and 175 markings.
That asside... Early T-Shock Yam off-roader? What would I do?
Probably leave it in my shed and have lots of oy-dee-uz.. likely bad ones. Been there, done that got the T-shirt covered in oil! See profile link for build blog!
Working back-wards? Top book, a concourse T-Shock 175 is worth possibly £2000. To turn a barn find into anything worth even close to that will cost a LOT more than it will ever fetch, and you HAVE to be an absolute nut & bolt anorack to make it EXACTLY like the brochure for the year to get there, with absolutely original parts. More parts that is missing, the more you will have to anorack to get exactly the right ones. As a 'usable' week-end classic? They are more do-able... but still not really all that economically viable.
That headlamp glass for instance; whether there or not, it would likely need replacing as old lamp lenses will have yellowed and etched, the reflectors lost their silvering. When I did mine, ISTR that the best replacement lens/reflector that straight swapped into the Yamaha lamp shell was actually a Vespa part from India, bought by shell diameter.
The model is actually one of the easier and safer to tackle a full reso on... Yamaha did a lot of parts-bin pillaging to make them, and things like the points I think are the same as for the XS500 and many others, and there aren't 'so' many model specific bits of unobtanium... but the few that are? Can be utter unobtanium!
But, its model run was long, and extended living well into the mono-shock era in the TY competition trials variant, for which there is a HECK of a lot of spares support. It was also built by Regal BSA, the folks behind the modern Chinky built Honda 'Rebel' clones and derivatives, but they built it as the BSA 'Teacker' to sell as a BSA Bantam replacement to colonial post-offices and the like, and I believe, as a Yamaha, it was built in Taiwan and or Thailand or similar for a lot longer for local markets.
And both advantage and disadvantage.... HUNDREDS of these have been brought into the UK from the US, where they sold by the shed-load, and just to confuddle... they had about five or six models of much the same bike; the competition trials variant with solo seat, 'TY' the the competition 'scrambles' YZ, and the competition 'Enduro' IT, as well as the 'Road' models badged trail or enduro, but also some hybrid models based on them, including a 'Cow-Patter' they sold in large numbers, in farmers co-op shops curiously, essentially a Road-Going AT or CT T-shock 'road bike' without the lights and street-gear, and some bits from the YZ scrambler, 'cos farm-lads had been buying the full-on scrambles bikes, that should have new cranks every 3000 miles and stuff, and running them till they broke, rounding up cattle! BUT chucked in the containers? Very hard to work out whether what you have is a YZ scrambler that's been thrashed to death, a road-going 'Enduro' thats lost its lamps, or one of the cow-patters etc etc etc. And you have to see what you got in the metal, so many never registered in the US or else-where before being mhulla'd!
That legacy? Well, as said swings and roundabouts. In the muddle there's a lot of scope to get necessary bits, new or used, from UK, US, Oz or far east.. IF you do your home-work, and that history can make that quite interesting/fun, depending how warped you are!
Its one of the better resto-bases, in that, and it does stand a better than average chance of being made road-able again... and not cost Toooooo much money along the way... there are lots of other ways to wast large amounts of time and money, like making ships in a bottle or trying to loose a plastic gold ball down a rabbit hole... so its not utter madness... but it IS madness!
If I had the inclination to have a crack at another.... well, I would look at the three part built Honda CB125 twins waiting for some attention, and think I needed to clear decks first.... and go lie down in a darkened room for a week-or three! Then at my 1980 Montesa Cota, that I have had for over three deecades, and possibly start by trying to get the carb slide to move.... then ponder what else I 'should' do, or could do with it... then peer at the Seven-Fifty, and wonder what was going rusty under the seat since last time I did a renovation to the thing.....
So, I would probably look at the bits you have... do a funny little chicken dance... and run a mile! And I'm half crippled!
Did I say here lies madness? Y-e-r-s....
If there was nothing else on the cards.... like I say, I would possibly have Oy-Dee-Uz.... and likely bad ones.
I would say... Magnus Magnuson... you started it, you dang well aught to finish it!
Eyes open, as a project base its far from the worse you could pick as a start place, but DO you want a project? and the answer to that is... well, you DID, once upon a time.... so finish it or give up, and if you give up?
Well, e-blaying the bits? It's still not going to make you much if any money, and its a LOT of hassle runing dealing with folk wanting a specific part and hoping you have the right one, and getting postage quotes and the like. If you dont want the hassle of the resto, do you really want THAT hassle? You WILL get to a point where you are looking at pile of parts, and thinking it would have been easier just to put them back together and sell it as a whole bike.
So, ME.... I'd likely either persevere and finish it... and then make lots of excuses to justify why that was actually not such a bad oy-dee-ah... fail, shrug, and remind myself of the MOT euphorioa of first ride back from the test centre on something I'd made work from a heap of scrap, and say that that alone justified all the heartache ear-ache and hassle...
Most likely shuffle the boxes around the shed, kidding myself I was still working on it....
And only if COMPLETELY backed into a corner... probably by a woman or three, armed with pursed lips.... would I concede to 'get rid' and the expedience of simply handing the problem so some-other nutter to tackle, 'as is' hiding when the woman eagerly helped other-nutter load the boxes in the back of thier hatch-back when they turned up to take it away....
Ak-chully.. I would probably be locked in the bedroom, by one of the women, who'd be leaning against the door to make sure I couldn't get out, whilst I yelled "Nooooo! That's not part of the bike! That's the spare blades for the Strimmer!" As I watched from the window at the variouse boxes!
But still..... you wanted to know what I would do.... and that's probably the most likely scenarios! ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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Sister Sledge |
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Sister Sledge World Chat Champion
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Posted: 12:26 - 18 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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I'll give you £3.50 and I'll collect all the bits too..
Great advice already given. Bikes become money pits easily - even road legal stuff can take a few chunks of money.
If you restore to fair condition it'll likely cost a fair bit more than it's worth.
Any chance you could post a few photos for folks? We do love our old two strokes ____________________ CCM 404 DS |
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nbuuifx Derestricted Danger
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Posted: 19:47 - 18 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike tl;dr
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Posted: 10:23 - 19 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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nbuuifx wrote: | As a CT1, does that mean it is roughly around 1970? |
Sister Sledge wrote: | I dunno but Tef will know! |
No, no I dont.
CT1 is a factory code, and it would never have been listed or badged as such. Bit like folk calling VFR400's NC30's or refering to late model TZR's by the factory engine coding 3M or whatever.
If it was a genuine UK Importer bike... send e-mail to Matsui Yamaha, they still hold the archgive of all the bikes they brought inb, I believe... could chuck up some interesting history, not just on exactly what model and year it is, but also which dealer it went to maybe even who bought it.
T-Shocks distinctly date it to before 1977/8 when the T-Shock 175 was dropped from the catalogue in facour of the mono-shock. I cant remember what year Mitsui-Yamaha set up offices in the UK, I think it was circa 1967.. so it gives you a ten year window of possibility.
Most Japanese bikes though did not sell well, in the UK until after the 1973 colapse of the BSA group that brought down the Brit-Bike industry in the domino effect, so if it's a genuine UK model, and not a US re-Import, or later EU re-Import (As mentioned, of which more early era bikes have come into the UK as barn-finds, than ever did through official importer), it's most likely to have been made between about 1973 and 1977.... and if you are thinking tax and MOT exemption, you are right on the border of what might be, and would need to dig deep into them rules, cos its not automatic eligibility. ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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Posted: 01:56 - 20 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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The hi/low beam switch is always the first to go... if you just want to get it running just jam a screw in there
Zero mirrors and indicators... sorta hint that this bike was mainly off-roading but you'll have to put something back on to ride it on the road even if you can't be bothered to source the original parts.
Is it possible you have an off-road bike but the number plates are for an entirely different DT?
With regards to wonky parts there have been DT's of all sorts of engine sizes over the years and not all the bits are fully interchangeable. I would imagine whomever had it previously just collected DT parts in general - not necessarily for your particular one. ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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Suntan Sid |
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Suntan Sid World Chat Champion
Joined: 07 May 2009 Karma :
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Posted: 09:24 - 20 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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That doesn't look any worse than my restoration bike when I got it, I just got a frame and several boxes of bits.
Mine is now taxed, insured and MOT'd, although I did get a V5 with it.
It would be great to get it up and running.
How far you go with it will depend on how much you're prepared to spend on it.
As far as indicators and mirrors go, I didn't bother with either, anything pre 1986 doesn't require indicators anyway
Here’s mine.
Before:-
https://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu172/Troodos-Pool-Guy/XL125RC/XL125RCB_zps93f3d47d.jpg~original
After:-
https://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu172/Troodos-Pool-Guy/Build%20Seat%20on_zpsdrqnsdxf.jpg~original
The only major problems I had were sourcing a new exhaust and repairing/replacing shonky wiring.
What did I learn?
If you’ve positively identified, precisely, which model it is you may find that a lot of parts are generic across a few bikes.
I only had to buy one specialised tool, a flywheel puller.
If you have to repair the wiring loom, buy a proper set of crimps and connectors, specifically for bikes.
If the seat has a metal base don’t break of or lose the clips that hold the seat cover to the base.
Fork oil hadn’t been invented when your bike was manufactured, be prepared to experiment with different weights.
Anything can be fixed, if however the frame’s rusted through there’s not a lot you can do about it.
If you restore it, purely, for your own enjoyment, not expecting a return on any investment, you will not be disappointed. ____________________ "Everybody needs money, that's why they call it money!" |
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Sister Sledge World Chat Champion
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Suntan Sid |
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Suntan Sid World Chat Champion
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Posted: 10:44 - 20 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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From the original thread.
Suntan Sid wrote: |
THE BILL
The original boxes of bits cost £400.
I reckon I've spent another £650 on it.
However, there were some other bits and pieces, in the boxes, from various other bikes, I've sold a few of these on ebay and recouped £170, there are still a few more bits I will sell.
Within the total spent were a few, specialised, tools, ie. a puller, a clutch tool, new circlip pliers, a multimeter and a cable crimping set, all available to use in the future. I also bought a reasonable amount of stainless screws, bolts, nuts, washers etc, of which I've used about a third.
The rebore and new piston cost £60.
I bought another engine from a BCFer for £40
My biggest expense was last month, I bought a new set of tyres, inner tubes, rim locks, rim tapes, tyre levers, a foot pump, a new exhaust system, tacho drive cable, a small sheet of aluminium, battery, chain & sprocket kit and a light switch, that little lot, alone cost, £300.
I used 2 rattle cans of paint, 4 of primer and 2 of laquer.
2 small tins of HT paint, 1 small tin of silver paint, 1 small tin of black enamel, 1 small tin of etch primer. Everything was brush painted apart from the tank and frame. The frame and shockcer were powder coated when I bought it, so I saved a bit on that.
I used one tin of WD40 and one tin of Duck Oil, 3 litres of deagreaser, (Swarfega), and a couple of litres of diesel.
I've used loads of scotchbrite, plastic, kitchen scourers for cleaning stuff.
I've got enough parts to build, at least, one more good engine. I also have another good petrol tank, mudguard, swinging arm and handlebars. |
The Original thread’s here, if you've got some time to spare:-
https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=278824&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 ____________________ "Everybody needs money, that's why they call it money!" |
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Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 12:24 - 20 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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HardlyDavidson wrote: | Excuse me, Mr. Teflon, with regards to late 70s twin shocks what "1G1" would signify? |
Not off the top of my head, no.
nbuuifx wrote: | Not too worried about tax exempt and not exempt. It is a long way off that! |
I believe that the rules now, have been conveded and that the 'rolling' eligibility has been allowed, instread of the arbitary built before 1973 rule.
As far as I can tell, any vehicle 'built' over 40 years ago (1978) is eligible for Historic-Vehicle-Status, subject to a bunch of rules on later modification, to stop say folk with modern coil-sprung land-rovers and stuff, claiming HVS for them for no more than having a chassis with that bit of metal the chassis number was stamped on, under the body!
As a T-Shock, then its quite likely it IS eligible for HVS 'tax-exemption' and possibly MOT exemption too, though, again there's more rules on that which basically shove the onus back on the owner to prove road-worthiness, and an MOT is probably the cheapest/easiest way to prove that.
nbuuifx wrote: | Would need an MOT to register it anyway (afaik). |
IF it isn't already registered with DVLA.
Yes, to get a new reg-no, it would have to go through the modern registration process, as a self-built, or privately imported vehicle.
Once upon a time, before SVA, yes, you had to get the bike insured, then MOT'd against the frame number, then you could apply for a registration number.... now, though, it is under single-vehicle-approval, and an MOT at your local test centre is pretty much neither here nor there... it has to go to a VOSA inspection center to be inspected not just for road-worthiness, but for complience with Construction & Use regs, and for a vehicle-identity-check, to make sure what you are trying to register is what you are declaring for the registration docs.
nbuuifx wrote: | Thanks for the top regarding sending an email to Yamaha, I'll give it a shot. |
Its first port of call.
If it was originally registered when sold new, by them or franchise dealer, they aught be abloe to tell you what the reg awarded to it was.... and ALL you need do is apply to DVLA for a 'lost' log-book...
May be that in years past, the number was sold as a pribate number-plate, or if untaxed for unpety years, de-listed so that DVLA could dell as a private plate, and will still need re-=reg. BUT a;lso possible that the original reg-no is still on the books, and all you need do is get a copy of the V5 that matches the frame/engine number and get a new plate made up.
Either way.....
E-mail Matsui..... for re-registering or new registering you will need a dating letter from a recognised authority..... they will take the word of an owners club, but an official letter on headed note-paper from the importer, and still existent importer pretty much is definitive and saves so many silly questions later.
nbuuifx wrote: | I don't have any mirrors or indicators. Would it have had these!? |
Most likely. They weren't required by either Construction & Use regs or MOT until the mid 80's; but I believe that fitment of such as 'standard' rather than 'optional equipment' was significant feature of early Jap-Bike sales brochures.
But, in the scale of stuff, small beer.
Personally, I would not even worry much about seeing if it ran, at this stage. The exhausts on those old Yammies are made from near cannon-barel thick steel... they rust, but they can take a heck of a lot of pounding with a rotary wire to get rid of it, and where they may pin-hole, can oft be brazed up.... and without a good exhaust you are onto a looser trying to get it started before you begin.
Points and condenser come next on the get it running score, and easy enough to swap out.... if not so 'cheap' these days I found! (Under £20 I think, though!)
There's not really that much to the motor, so I would tip a little 2T oil down the spark-plug hole and try work it over on the rotor bolt, gently from time to time to make sure it wasn't siezed, and turned easily, then worry about the rest of it.
Those brake shoes look manky... they would probably go straight on the scrap-heap. I would pay a lot of attension to the wheels, and taking tyres off, to assess the state of the rim inside, and any corrision around the spoke nipples as well as spoke nipples themselves.
I would assume to replace the tyres and the brake shoes and the wheel-bearings with 'new'.
I would assume to replace the front brake cable, clutch cab;le and throttle cable, as course. Likewise chain and sprockets.
I'd drain the gearbox oil, and refill, and again, work it over when I worked over the piston to ensure free'd off.
Forks would be stripped and the stanchiones, insprcted.... that's a stoppa if duff. Small pitting and light corrosion can be lived with, especially if on the upper section of the leg; if bad? New stanchiones can be unobtanium, and re-chroming uber expensive. I think the last pair I priced up were in the £250 region... but assuming they solvol up, I'd rebuild with new seals.. for probably an afternoon and £30 worth of oil and bits.... just beware the fork-oil drain screws that are likely siezed and want to sheer if you try undo-them... another good reason to strip and rebuild.... top oil oil and gunk out from the top and leave the shear-screws alone! Just be sure to clean thoroughly like soaking in parafin, then swilling with petrol, etc before you rebuild them.
LEaving the patina on the metal bits of body-work? Your call... oily-rag restos are a bit hipster for me, but many do it... and IF the metal underneath is not so bad, they can work OK. But, the poretty bits are the last thing on the list, really, and in for a penny, in for a squid, I assume to repaint to as close to original during resto.... which isn't cheap, and gettin the corect decals can be the real bugga in the wood-pile.
BUT... I do a PORT 15 tank treatment, to put a new petrol proof lining on the tank, p-retty much as soon as I have decided its a 'go-er', cos it takes a while to do and cure, but is good, and saves so many stoopid down the line, as fresh fuel washed old chit down the pipes into the carb to re-clock them after you have sweated over getting them clean!
So.... from where you are at? Personally I think you are starting at the wroing end to some degree, looking at the lamps and worrying whether they should be there, how they fit and if they are the right ones.... it's detail... and at this stage whether the mirrors should be there, whether they are the roight ones, are actually not that important, and making sure that the swing arm bushes are goood, making sure that the inside of the tanks clean, making sure that the gearbox picks all five gears is far more of an imperative, before worying about the jewlery the thing might wear!
Talk to Matsui... get a date from the frame and engine number, get some history, do a search at DVLA see if the thing IS already registered.... THEN poke and prod, and worry about the lamps last. ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 09:49 - 21 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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HardlyDavidson wrote: | Teflon-Mike wrote: | Not off the top of my head, no. |
A friend offered to sell me their DT175 recently and kept pointing out it was a DT175 1G1 but I can't seem to find any info on what that particular model moniker means |
IF its a DT175 'MX' and badged as such, its a DT175 'MX' mono-shock. There were only two (and a half) varients of the model. The very very early ones, like the one in my build blog, had round tube swing-arms, flat side panels, and the 2T tank was on the other side to later models, that had box section swing arms. Ad muttered, round-arm DT175's weren't necesserily badged DT's. The later half model not sold in the UK, was the later box-arm 175, and the only real difference was that it got DT125LC tank and radiator cowling to make it look like later water-cooled bike! Mlost sold I believe in Oz and Tialand.
Still no idea what the 1G1 coding is reffering to. ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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A100man |
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A100man World Chat Champion
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 5 years, 40 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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