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Wyberton John |
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Wyberton John Nova Slayer
Joined: 27 Feb 2019 Karma :
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Posted: 13:04 - 24 Mar 2019 Post subject: Fazer Thou Cam Chain Tensioner |
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There's a bit of a rattle coming from my camchain area and a mechanic friend has advised I get it sorted ASAP.
Unfortunately, he is away for a while now, so I need to get it sorted myself.
I'd be grateful for any advice from Fazer owners - I have read the procedure for checking the auto-tensioner in the Haynes manual, seems simple enough, though I don't know where to get the necessary new crush washer and gasket from (except a - doubtless expensive - Yamaha dealer). I'll try my usual source, Wemoto, but in any case, as this is the first time I will be doing anything involving the camchain, I want to make sure I don't screw it up.
According to my mate, I need to get it sorted before I ride it again (except maybe to a dealer if I can't sort it - which is a good 45 minute's ride on A roads).
I've seen a quality manual tensioner for £41 and am seriously thinking about grabbing one - but many seem to say it's not worth it. Though many say it's a Godsend
Ideally, I'd like the chain checking, but I don't have the clean space to strip the top myself, nor do I have the cash for the relevant gaskets and carb rebalancing.
Might mention I'm getting on a bit, and have buggered fingers in the form of arthritis and a nasty skin disease that means I have open sores etc on them. Yes, I use gloves, of course, but some jobs require a more sensitive touch.
So, any useful help appreciated. ____________________ Fazer Thou Gen 1 |
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Wyberton John |
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Wyberton John Nova Slayer
Joined: 27 Feb 2019 Karma :
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Posted: 15:03 - 24 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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OK - found the gasket - genuine Yamaha parts at £1.32
If I need a new chain, prices range from £60 for a "DI" chain through £77 for a pattern one, £90-odd for DID and £142 for a genuine OEM one.
I'm thinking I'd be better off sorting the tension, then the cam chain should be sorted in the 48/50k service**, which will need doing in a year or two. Not sure of the exact mileage, but I'm close enough. That's just over £500 - but don't know if that includes a new chain or not.
Also saw a used adjuster on fleabay for £32 - but if I was looking at that, I reckon I'd be better off with the brand new manual adjuster at £41
Decisions, decisions...
**edit - services don't cover cam chains at all - so it'd be extra ____________________ Fazer Thou Gen 1
Last edited by Wyberton John on 12:26 - 25 Mar 2019; edited 2 times in total |
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Nobby the Bastard |
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Nobby the Bastard Harley Gaydar
Joined: 16 Aug 2013 Karma :
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Wyberton John |
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Wyberton John Nova Slayer
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Shaft |
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Shaft World Chat Champion
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Wyberton John |
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Wyberton John Nova Slayer
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Posted: 12:15 - 25 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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Yeah, thanks, I tried there, but no-one was any the wiser - just got an email back from their Fazer Thou 'guru' telling me he has no idea, as he never had to deal with this issue.
Anyway, I decided to take the tensioner out according to the Haynes. If it doesn't operate as it should, I'll get a manual one - problem pretty much sorted.
If it operates properly, then the chain is shagged and I'll get the workshop to change it during it's next valve shim-check service.
It'll then not cost me too much extra, rather than having the jobs done separately. Just means I'll have to bring the servicing forward and try to find £700 for it (£550ish service + £142 cam chain) ____________________ Fazer Thou Gen 1 |
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davebike |
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davebike World Chat Champion
Joined: 15 Nov 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 13:00 - 25 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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Just change the tensioner use the OEM one they never snap chains Manuel ones often do we seen 5 broken chains in the last few years all manual tensioners ! None with OEM tensioners!
Yes racer do use manual but they also have a skilled mechanic to reset it every few hundred miles !
Just done my FZ6 fro the second time at 118K miles ____________________ Dave
NC750Xdct + others at work !
davebike1@gmail.com |
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
Joined: 06 Dec 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 13:07 - 25 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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If you've found the Fazer Forum, not much I can add - lots of discussion on the subject in there, if you do a search.
What's the mileage on your bike?
An interesting post on the subject:
Quote: | I phoned Yamaha Technical Dept yesterday and asked them about camchain tensioners. They didn't really enlighten me on anything and what the technician had to say doesn't really further this thread. But here is a summary of their views on CCT failure.
The technician said that they do keep data on engine components that give problems, but failure of the CCT on the Fazer engine is so rare they don't have any record of such, he was aware that such things happen and you should consider your self very unlucky if it does happen, but it's not something to worry about he said. Apparently, in France some years ago there was a number of tensioners being replaced by dealers as a matter of course at 30,000 miles but it wasn't a directive by Yamaha. This rash of replacing the CCT might have been a result of rumour on forums he said and that it's always best to have engine problems discussed and investigated by a Yamaha mechanic.
I told him that my own engine at 57,000 miles sounds mechanically noisier than it did say 10,000 miles ago and he said that it could be a number of things but with regards to the camchain and tensioner it might be that the chain is worn rather than the tensioner not working.
I said that I basically can't be arsed to take the engine down to have a look at the chain so would it be worth replacing the tensioner? He replied that in my case 'it wouldn't hurt' and that if the chain quietened down then all well and good, 'but I'm not saying that your tensioner is probably worn out'. So, non commital to admitting any endemic problems with the CCT.
He went on to say that 57,000 miles is considered a high mileage for a motorcycle engine and that if you took such a motor apart for some reason then you should certainly replace the camchain on reassembly, not because it's totally worn out, but because it's probably more than halfway to significant wear.
As for manual tensioners, he said he wouldn't comment and couldn't reccomend a part that isn't a Yamaha item.
In conclusion, I got the impression that Yamaha certainly don't think their tensioners should be singled out as prone to fault. But, probably the most significant part of the conversation was that a noisy camchain might well be a worn chain rather than a faulty tensioner, I guess if the chain is beyond wear limits then perhaps it gets to a point where it is asking too much of the tensioner to keep it tensioned. It's possible that a manual tensioner could be used to unwittingly tension a knackered camchain so perhaps caution is required in using one and in an ideal world you should measure the wear on the chain before using one.
Anyway, I bought a standard tensioner for £95 and I'll fit it and and forget about it. |
...from this thread:
https://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,7714.0.html
The guy who started this thread has had two catastrophic failures on these bikes
However, it is very rare. ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
Joined: 06 Dec 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 13:10 - 25 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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davebike wrote: |
Yes racer do use manual but they also have a skilled mechanic to reset it every few hundred miles ! |
It's really very simple to do. Somewhere on the Fazer site was a video of adjusting it, you might have better luck finding it than I did just now! ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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davebike |
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davebike World Chat Champion
Joined: 15 Nov 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 13:12 - 25 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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Yes easy to do easy to not bother also easy to get wrong results are catastrophic often requiring a new engine ! ____________________ Dave
NC750Xdct + others at work !
davebike1@gmail.com |
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
Joined: 06 Dec 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 13:19 - 25 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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davebike wrote: | Yes easy to do easy to not bother also easy to get wrong results are catastrophic often requiring a new engine ! |
Lots of folks on the Fazer Forum have fitted them, and I have never once heard of anyone getting it wrong (maybe they just won't admit to it ).
What all this proves is that the jury on the pros and cons of manual tensioners is still out, and you have to make up your own mind as to whether they are worth it. ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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Bhud |
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Bhud World Chat Champion
Joined: 11 Oct 2018 Karma :
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Posted: 13:33 - 25 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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High mileage bike?
Hypothesis: CCT is advanced well beyond half its travel.
Test: Remove valve cover when bike is dead cold. Pull and tug at cam chain. It should be nice and tight. If it's loose, remove CCT and observe how far extended it is. IF CCT is more than half way extended and the cam chain is loose, suspect the CCT spring doesn't have enough power to advance another notch to tension up the chain.
IN THAT SITUATION:
Proper way: strip down engine, fit new endless Yamaha cam chain along with new cam gears if needed, and new cam chain guides. Then refit CCT. Big job, and you'd better get a garage to do it unless you're happy to have the bike off the road for a while and can afford to do without it.
Temporary way (requires moderate skills): source an open ended cam chain with master link. This will cost a little more than an endless OEM chain. Fit this chain without stripping engine (i.e. feed it through with hooks), and be sure to line up cam marks with engine at TDC before reinserting original CCT. Check again in 10K miles. Most likely, no further action needed.
Temporary way (requires no skills): remove CCT and bin it. Fit an aftermarket manual cam chain tensioner. Tension the chain appropriately, check that the marks on cams still line up with engine at TDC, and continue on your way. Check again in 5K miles, tensioning at the right times. Might need further action, might not.
Bodge (don't do this but it would probably work if you did): artificially bring the CCT out another notch, by undoing the top and bottom retaining bolts very little at a time until you hear a 'click', then tightening them back up again. This isn't the proper way, you shouldn't do this, but just saying, if you did, you would probably be fine. |
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Fizzer Thou |
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Fizzer Thou World Chat Champion
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Wyberton John |
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Wyberton John Nova Slayer
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Posted: 19:40 - 25 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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Thanks for the reference, chickenstrip - I'd already found and read that post about the Yamaha techs and what they'd said. I also found a few other useful posts at FOC-U.
I've had a good look over the last few days, on several forums, watched videos and listened to several theories and explanations and the end result is that I will be pulling out the tensioner in the next couple of days and will be replacing it with a manual one.
LINKY
I've seen a good vid on correct fitting and adjusting and have no issue doing that once a year (I rarely do much more than 1,000 miles year and often less than 500 depending on health) - as well as several bad videos that don't show much at all.
Baseline is, I've stopped worrying about the chain itself and will sort the tensioner as described. I have no concerns about dabbling with this - used to do a lot of mechanicing in the '80's when I was racing cars. Everything from engine changes to blown head gaskets.
Stuff like this is really fun:
https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=327133
...but I just have to be careful I don't overdo it, as I'm a lot older and more fragile these days
Thanks for the replies and input
**davebike - I think Fazer 1000 owners tend to be more mature and (fairly-)responsible types. Well, as far as looking after the bike is concerned, anyway! ____________________ Fazer Thou Gen 1 |
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Wyberton John |
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Wyberton John Nova Slayer
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Posted: 10:39 - 26 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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After all that, I didn't post a link to the one sensible video I'd found (it's for a later R1 - but apart from slight difference in removal procedure, it's a good reference:
https://youtu.be/rBL39IvfUpk
I'm thinking of recording as I do mine, though my YT channel isn't usually for biking.
I have recently started recording all the stuff I do on the bike when I take it to bits, just so I know exactly what went where. Won't apply for this - but if I do and upload it, it'll at least be another reference for people looking for info, as I was. ____________________ Fazer Thou Gen 1 |
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Wyberton John |
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Wyberton John Nova Slayer
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 18:08 - 26 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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Wyberton John wrote: | I'll keep hold of the new manual adjuster, though - just in case. |
Another one collecting dust in a drawer?
Mine is on about 50k miles. If it got rattly now, I'd most likely just fit my manual one. But one thing I don't like about that idea is if it slowly then got rattly, would I miss the fact? So maybe I'd actually buy and fit a new stock item ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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Wyberton John |
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Wyberton John Nova Slayer
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 20:48 - 26 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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Fizzer Thou |
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Fizzer Thou World Chat Champion
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Posted: 22:14 - 26 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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Wyberton John |
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Wyberton John Nova Slayer
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Posted: 15:45 - 27 Mar 2019 Post subject: |
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Okay, started her up this morning - heard a short rattle which disappeared again straight away, seemed fine then.
Took it to local mechanic, both he and his mate said the engine sounded "perfect". I then put the matter out of my mind and went for about 100 mile round trip, stopping at Webb's in Peterbog to ogle the new Triumphs and Yamaha's and book a test ride on the Trumpet Scrambler
Bike was great, as it should be - weather was shite, as it always is when I get on the bike! ____________________ Fazer Thou Gen 1 |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 5 years, 31 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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