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Who's a naughty boy/girl??

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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 07:55 - 06 Apr 2019    Post subject: Who's a naughty boy/girl?? Reply with quote
OK seeing as a thread went offtopic yesterday I'll start this (probably short lived) thread here.

Many are blaming Fiona Onasanya for knacking a Brexit decision process in parliament but others have correctly stated that Conservatives allowed a naughty boy to counteract her vote. It all begs a question though:

Just how many convicted criminals are there in parliament including the House of Lords?

Yes there was the expenses scandal which saw a fair few convicted but I'll bet there are others in there with convictions different to expenses and likely gained in their everyday lives.
For me though I see a far deeper issue. I also volunteer in community matters. I'm fully vetted to make sure I'm not a danger to others - CRB checked etc. Surely politicians have to be checked too? Surely convictions would prevent them doing the job safely and effectively or is that just it - you can be the worst of the worst in society and politics will welcome you with open arms?

Anyone know??
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 09:29 - 06 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_politicians_convicted_of_crimes
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 10:02 - 06 Apr 2019    Post subject: Re: Who's a naughty boy/girl?? Reply with quote
Sister Sledge wrote:

see a far deeper issue. I also volunteer in community matters. I'm fully vetted to make sure I'm not a danger to others - CRB checked etc. Surely politicians have to be checked too? Surely convictions would prevent them doing the job safely and effectively or is that just it - you can be the worst of the worst in society and politics will welcome you with open arms?

Anyone know??


The barrier for preventing someone being a politician is 12 months in prison, i dont know if that based of a the sentence or the time served, its probably the original sentence.

As for vetting

There are different types of checks and vetting:

Standard DBS checks show details of spent and unspent convictions, cautions, reprimands and final warnings held on police records.

Enhanced DBS checks show the same information as standard checks, plus any additional information held by local police considered relevant to the role in question.

Enhanced with barred lists checks show the same information as Enhanced checks, but also include a check of the DBS barred lists.

There is a filltering process which removes some minor stuff from cbr checks provided you haven't done anything else since, to give people how moght have made a small mistake a chance to get on with life.

These are done for jobs that are excluded from the rehabilitation of offenders act, usually they involve unsupervised access to vulnerable people ans stuff like that.

Then you have SC clearance which is a backgroud check, credit check and criminal record check that shows anything that the police holds on you.

Then Developed vetting, which checks the things that SC checks do as well as intrusive interveiws where they ask about your sex life, fetishes and whether your open about your sexuality, and extensive background checks and background checks of your immediate family.

They are used if people need unsupervised access to protectively marked assests, things marked SECRET and TOP SECRET.

The used to determine if you are who you say you are and that there is isn't anything about you that could be used as leverage to persauded you to reveal secrets and shit like that. There used by places llike the MOD, MI5/6, the NHS and central Government (not sure if that includeds MPs i suspect not)

In all cases its entriely possible to get cleared if you have a checkered past, it mainly depends on the type of offence and how long ago, dishonesty and drug offences are likely to be a no no
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 10:56 - 06 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kin ell. That's a lot but as has been said it kinda depends. Second chance too which is fair.

I remember recently looking into working for the government. Just pensions service, office based or whatever. The job roles did indeed have different classifications of requirements. A quick example:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/government-baseline-personnel-security-standard

It does all make me see politicians in an even more distrustful way unfortunately.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 11:19 - 06 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Actual criminal convictions are one thing. But it's what they get away with that's perhaps more worrying, and how they get away with things.

duhawkz wrote:
dishonesty...likely to be a no no


Politicians? You're having a laugh, aren't you?!
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 13:49 - 06 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
I agree.
I even see it on a local level with parish councils and the like. Sure lots are great people but there's definitely some badduns in there..
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PostPosted: 14:13 - 06 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 19:19 - 06 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
If I'd been convicted of speeding and lied about it, been found out and sent to prison (even for a day), under my Employment Contract I would have had my employment terminated under grounds of "Gross Miscounduct".

But then I'm an engineer, not an MP.
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Jmoan
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PostPosted: 19:49 - 06 Apr 2019    Post subject: Re: Who's a naughty boy/girl?? Reply with quote
Does anyone have the stats for the difference in jail time between men and women for the crimes this MP was sentenced for?

duhawkz wrote:

As for vetting

There are different types of checks and vetting:

Standard DBS checks show details of spent and unspent convictions, cautions, reprimands and final warnings held on police records.

Enhanced DBS checks show the same information as standard checks, plus any additional information held by local police considered relevant to the role in question.

Enhanced with barred lists checks show the same information as Enhanced checks, but also include a check of the DBS barred lists.

There is a filltering process which removes some minor stuff from cbr checks provided you haven't done anything else since, to give people how moght have made a small mistake a chance to get on with life.

These are done for jobs that are excluded from the rehabilitation of offenders act, usually they involve unsupervised access to vulnerable people ans stuff like that.

Then you have SC clearance which is a backgroud check, credit check and criminal record check that shows anything that the police holds on you.


These criminal records checks are overdue for scrapping because they leak out too much police information without a good cause.
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 20:11 - 06 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
bhinso wrote:
If I'd been convicted of speeding and lied about it, been found out and sent to prison (even for a day), under my Employment Contract I would have had my employment terminated under grounds of "Gross Miscounduct".

But then I'm an engineer, not an MP.


So would the rest of the world.

I'd be interested to know if she has security clearance and so why it hasn't been revoked as you normally have to inform the vetting officer if you have a change of circumstances, including getting convicted of a serious dishonesty offence.
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 20:19 - 06 Apr 2019    Post subject: Re: Who's a naughty boy/girl?? Reply with quote
Jmoan wrote:

These criminal records checks are overdue for scrapping because they leak out too much police information without a good cause.


In January the government lost an appeal over the disclosure of criminal records so I imagine there will be somw changes made in the future.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47054647
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 23:01 - 06 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
So say I was a little naughty, I'd struggle to get into the USA as they have seriously tight requirements.
Are MPs subject to similar standards or does parliamentary privilege allow them easy passage?
If it restricts MPs too then surely they can't do the job effectively - same goes with restrictions on certain secret documents etc.

Does parliament have a giant flush handle so we can put good clean people in??
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 23:22 - 06 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sister Sledge wrote:


Does parliament have a giant flush handle so we can put good clean people in??


It's the system that has to change. Power corrupts, and all that. Put "good, clean people" in, and in no time, they've gone the same way as the last lot.
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 23:28 - 06 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sister Sledge wrote:
So say I was a little naughty, I'd struggle to get into the USA as they have seriously tight requirements.
Are MPs subject to similar standards or does parliamentary privilege allow them easy passage?
If it restricts MPs too then surely they can't do the job effectively - same goes with restrictions on certain secret documents etc.

Does parliament have a giant flush handle so we can put good clean people in??


I don't whether MP have special dispensation for travel if they have a criminal, it may be covered by diplomatic immunity

I don't believe we actually share criminal records with the US except for the most serious cases (terrorism an shit), It would only come to light that you'd lied on the entry forms if you where arrested for another offence an the US made a special request to the UK for your records. (but don't quote me on that as I am not a legal professional)

however I suspect an MP getting jailed for perverting the course of justice might well have made international news so they may already have some intel.
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 23:49 - 06 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
There was a hereditary peers who served a long sentence in the USA for fraud, and resumed his seat almost as soon as he returned to the UK. Was dispicable.
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 01:21 - 07 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sister Sledge wrote:
So say I was a little naughty, I'd struggle to get into the USA as they have seriously tight requirements.
Are MPs subject to similar standards or does parliamentary privilege allow them easy passage?
If it restricts MPs too then surely they can't do the job effectively - same goes with restrictions on certain secret documents etc.



I got a suspended custodial sentence about 10 years ago, for what amounted to non payment of a fine - I complied with the conditions of the suspension and I still can't go on holiday to the USA.

IMHO, Fiona Onasanya, as a former practising solicitor and having been convicted of perverting the course of justice, should not just have been kicked out of her party, she should also have been kicked out of the HoC.

I don't really care about what influence her vote had, but I do care about the standard of person that represents us in parliament.

It used to be the case that if a serving police officer bounced a cheque, they would get the sack - now it seems we can turn a blind eye to MPs that are convicted of lying in court.
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 01:56 - 07 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
duhawkz wrote:
Sister Sledge wrote:
So say I was a little naughty, I'd struggle to get into the USA as they have seriously tight requirements.
Are MPs subject to similar standards or does parliamentary privilege allow them easy passage?
If it restricts MPs too then surely they can't do the job effectively - same goes with restrictions on certain secret documents etc.

Does parliament have a giant flush handle so we can put good clean people in??


I don't whether MP have special dispensation for travel if they have a criminal, it may be covered by diplomatic immunity

I don't believe we actually share criminal records with the US except for the most serious cases (terrorism an shit), It would only come to light that you'd lied on the entry forms if you where arrested for another offence an the US made a special request to the UK for your records. (but don't quote me on that as I am not a legal professional)

however I suspect an MP getting jailed for perverting the course of justice might well have made international news so they may already have some intel.


Access to US depends upon the offence. Basically, you'd have to apply for a visa rather than use the waiver system, if the offence was one involving 'moral turpitude' then you'll likely get a refusal and have to appeal it. Success of appeal depends upon the length of time that has passed since the offence, unless it's for Class A drugs which they really take objection to and can be tricksy to overcome*.

Once you go down the route of applying for a visa you have to provide a police certificate and with it the details of any criminal prosecutions, a caution is viewed as an admission of guilt because you have taken that rather than go to court.

Lying on your waiver application is fine....until you get caught out. You will definitely not be able to use the visa waiver system again, you may get a ten year ban or they could tell you to take a hike and never darken their borders again.

*Pop stars of the 'correct' skin colour with healthy bank balance seem to be the exception to the rule, if the average Joe had a rap sheet similar to Mick Jagger's you can guarantee that they'd never be getting heart surgery in the US!!
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 03:11 - 07 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think it all depends on the tie you're wearing...

A Eaton one probably allows anything up to and including manslaughter.

"We've been looking into your record, Mr. Johnson, you've been quite a naughty boy!"

"Look, that was a long time ago and it was only a prostitute!"

"Yes, well at least you did the decent thing and paid everyone off. Welcome to the Conservative Party!"
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 07:46 - 07 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
HardlyDavidson wrote:
I think it all depends on the tie you're wearing...

A Eaton one probably allows anything up to and including manslaughter.

"We've been looking into your record, Mr. Johnson, you've been quite a naughty boy!"

"Look, that was a long time ago and it was only a prostitute!"

"Yes, well at least you did the decent thing and paid everyone off. Welcome to the Conservative Party!"


Prostitution isn't illegal btw Wink
I'll do you a deal.

Mentions of the police ad sh*t. I'm aware that owing money (aside from loans etc) is massively frowned upon. Same with things that would give police a bad name. There's a terrible policeman up this way who's honestly scum - (old story this I know) but his masonic links got him the job and appear to armour him. The piles of dirt he leaves behind are unreal. He even owes me money never mind others.
The police do not have (many) officers of high standard now. Have just one example of the high standards they hold:

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/katie-barratt-police-northumbria-racism-16033759

Just offloading that's all. I really have no time for the police - they brought that upon themselves.
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