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SORN F*ck-up

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A100man
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PostPosted: 14:35 - 06 Apr 2019    Post subject: SORN F*ck-up Reply with quote

OK so went yo tax my bike today.. And the web-site comes up with this message..

Your vehicle will be taxed from 01 April 2019 This vehicle's previous tax/SORN expired on: 01 February 2019. This means the vehicle has not been taxed since this date.
You can apply for vehicle tax from today's date, with a tax start date of the first of this month, however, please note that it is an offence to be the registered keeper of a vehicle that is untaxed and does not have SORN in force. DVLA's enforcement section may be in contact with you regarding this gap in tax.


Seems like I overlooked a SORN notice or summat although I don't recall that Rolling Eyes

So do I ignore message and go form today's date or back date to 1st Feb.
Bike hasn't turned a wheel since October - fair weather guy see.
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A100man
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PostPosted: 14:46 - 06 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

as you were..

I see there is no back date option. Just throw yourself to the mercy of DVLA.. Neutral
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Brendan110_0
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PostPosted: 15:48 - 06 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get the lube ready.
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 16:57 - 06 Apr 2019    Post subject: Re: SORN F*ck-up Reply with quote

DVLA wrote:
This vehicle's previous tax/SORN expired on: 01 February 2019. This means the vehicle has not been taxed since this date.


SORN does not simply expire!
Your bike remains SORN'd until you tax it again, or you inform them of a change of ownership.
I'd take a guess that the SORN status of the vehicle could have changed if you've informed the DVLA of any changes to the bike ie a change of engine number.
I'm not saying that, that is how it should work, as I said SORN should only expire when it's taxed or there is a change of ownership!
I'd be questioning them about how or why the SORN status has changed.
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 17:08 - 06 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, forgot to say.
I've had one of my bikes on SORN for over three years never heard a dickie bird from the DVLA.
If you SORN'd it online you'll have proof of when it was SORN'd, assuming you haven't changed the ownership details, you have proof that the SORN status hasn't changed!
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grr666
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PostPosted: 17:37 - 06 Apr 2019    Post subject: Re: SORN F*ck-up Reply with quote

Suntan Sid wrote:

SORN does not simply expire!


It used to be an annual renewable thing right up to 2013. I wasn't aware it had changed to a "do it once only" system either.

A100man wrote:
as you were..

I see there is no back date option. Just throw yourself to the mercy of DVLA.. Neutral


For a whopping £15.17? It's a lesson learned pretty cheaply compared to some of life's little unexpected educational moments I'd say.
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doggone
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PostPosted: 18:33 - 06 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

A google search for "does sorn expire" confirms it doesn't so what's going on.
Surely not a Government department making a *mistake* Shocked
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Ste
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PostPosted: 19:10 - 06 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP isn't saying that their SORN expired.

OP is saying that they forgot to SORN their bike when the tax expired at the start of February.
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A100man
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PostPosted: 19:20 - 06 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
OP isn't saying that their SORN expired.

OP is saying that they forgot to SORN their bike when the tax expired at the start of February.


Correct...

Not sure I need to be taught any lesson. Sometimes things get overlooked among the general melee of life. It would be rather galling to receive a fine for forgetfulness when there are nasty little toads on crossers wheelying down the high street, no helmets etc..
Nevertheless I will dutifully cough up as required.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 19:31 - 06 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

They'll dry hump you because you're an easy target to chase that's all - those sh*tbags nicking bikes etc are too much work to deal with for them.

Have you not had emails or letters for this? I thought a reminder was emailed..
DVLA are an efficient department working within the best government in the world. They do not make mistakes.
Actually, DVLA come second in my pet hates list.

Keep us updated. If they fine you on top of this back payment it'll be too heavy handed but wouldn't surprise me. I expect the companies they use to deal with this will get a bonus for fines delivered..
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 19:53 - 06 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait 6 months from the 29th of March (the last date it was untaxed). If you hear nothing by then, the problem has gone away. If they try anything on after that date, they can effectively go whistle because the case cannot legally be heard in a magistrates court if you turn up on the day and specifically object to that happening -quoting the magistrates court act- before answering charges.

This will not stop them attemting to chase you for a £100 "out of court settlement" via a debt collection agency whenever funds appear short but given that you did not agree to settle out of court, it holds no water, no contract exists and thhey have no legal basis to enforce it.

I should note that when I got prosecuted for failure to SORN, they had me in court 3 days before the 6 months was up. They have actually tried to re-run that one again, I got a notice of failure to SORN through the post later last year. As it happens, I haven't actually filled in a SORN declaration for that bike. However I did make a sworn declaration on public record before three magistrates and in front of a legal representative of the DVLA that the vehicle in question was not currently on the road. So as far as I'm concerned, I SORNed it then. And can provide the highest possible standard of proof that I did so.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 19:55 - 06 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hang on. Is back-dating the payment an option? I'd suggest that if they take the money, you're effectively off the hook. Or could make a bloody good argument for it in any case.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 02:37 - 07 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've miss-managed some tax last year. I paid for tax from the beginning of the month I wanted to tax but that was about 2 mths after tax expired. I think..... The Taffy Twats must use common sense, look at the vehicle tax history, accept that it has been taxed and use discretion.
More likely they are overloaded with bigger fish and cannot get their shit together to organise a fine etc.
They can impose a charge and make you pay from the last tax date.
Or they used to be able to do that.
Did I say Taffy Bastirts?
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 02:45 - 07 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

The letter of the law gives them the right to fine you for having an untaxed vehicle. Whether it's physically on the road or not is neither here nor there. Kinda like the BBC expect you to have a TV licence but they don't much care whether you actually have a TV.

The reality though is it'll go to the bottom of the pile and the ppl with years of not paying tax are at the top. Unlikely they'll get round to you.

I've had loads of times with my cars sitting around waiting for parts where tax had been missed by a month or so... 3 months at the most and had the same letter. Never seen any fines.

What they're really hot on is catching you on the road with no tax, so don't do that!
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MCN
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PostPosted: 02:49 - 07 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

HardlyDavidson wrote:
The letter of the law gives them the right to fine you for having an untaxed vehicle. Whether it's physically on the road or not is neither here nor there. Kinda like the BBC expect you to have a TV licence but they don't much care whether you actually have a TV.

The reality though is it'll go to the bottom of the pile and the ppl with years of not paying tax are at the top. Unlikely they'll get round to you.

I've had loads of times with my cars sitting around waiting for parts where tax had been missed by a month or so... 3 months at the most and had the same letter. Never seen any fines.

What they're really hot on is catching you on the road with no tax, so don't do that!


They'll dry pump u for lapses if you ever have to negotiate anything vehicle with them.
Reg transfers, selling/buying vehicles puts ones head above the edge of the leek trench.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 03:12 - 07 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

HardlyDavidson wrote:
The letter of the law gives them the right to fine you for having an untaxed vehicle. Whether it's physically on the road or not is neither here nor there. Kinda like the BBC expect you to have a TV licence but they don't much care whether you actually have a TV.


Only a duly appointed court of law has the ability to levvy a fine on a UK citizen. No court = no fine. The letter of the law gives them the right to bring a prosecution before a court. It is the courts decision to apply a fine. That fundamental right dates back to the bill of rights/magna carta.

I have been taken to court for failure to SORN. The DVLA prosecutor took me aside minutes before the case and said "If you pay me the £100 now, we'll let the matter drop.". I said "Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I am fined by the court, the money goes into central funds and NOT to the DVLA?" She answered "Yes.". I answered "I'll see you in court.".

Capita plc, a commercial entity, who run the DVLA (and TV licencing), most certainly do not have any legal right to destrain a citizen.

You seem to have some funny ideas about TV licences too. You only need a TV licence if you watch TV as it is being broadcast. Not to OWN a TV. Nor to use said TV for anything at all other than watching broadcast TV. The only way you can be fined for not having a TV licence is if a prosecutor presents evidence to a court proving beyond reasonable doubt you have watched broadcast television at that address. So pretty much exclusively that you are witnessed watching TV without a licence or you admit to watching TV without a licence. It's a criminal offence so there is a high standard of proof AND a right to trial by jury.

For example. I haven't purchased a TV licence for the last 15 years. I have received many, many pseudo-threatening letters. A nice man representing TV licencing has even knocked on my door and been summarily instructed to get off my land before I throw him off (something I DO have the legal right to do). Because I do not watch broadcast TV, and as such cannot be proved to have done so, I have no concerns at all about being fined for not having a TV licence

If you are going to draw a similarity with SORN, it's like being caught speeding by a speed camera. The police may offer you the chance to settle the matter by means of a fixed penalty notice. If you choose not to take them up on that offer, they have two options 1) Forget about it. 2) Take you to court for speeding. There is no option for 3) Apply the fixed penalty anyway.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 03:16 - 07 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

HardlyDavidson wrote:
The letter of the law gives them the right to fine you for having an untaxed vehicle.

By the letter of the law, only a court can fine you. Wink
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 03:27 - 07 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ouch! Barrister Chat Forums Razz
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 08:43 - 07 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

HardlyDavidson wrote:
Ouch! Barrister Chat Forums Razz

More about knowing your rights. If you don't, it's unlikely you'll be told at a time that it matters.

I knew Capita knocked doors/threatened on behalf of TV Licensing, but I didn't know they did the DVLA's dirty work as well. Nasty fuckers, exceedingly well trained and scripted for the most part.
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carvell
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PostPosted: 20:39 - 07 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
You seem to have some funny ideas about TV licences too. You only need a TV licence if you watch TV as it is being broadcast.

Just so noone else is confused, this isn't true anymore.

As of Sept 2016 you need a licence if you use iPlayer, whether that's live, catch-up or on demand.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 14:58 - 08 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

carvell wrote:

Just so noone else is confused, this isn't true anymore.

As of Sept 2016 you need a licence if you use iPlayer, whether that's live, catch-up or on demand.


But don't you need to put your licence details into iplayer to watch it now? Pretty sure you can't just access it anonymously any more.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 15:02 - 08 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
carvell wrote:

Just so noone else is confused, this isn't true anymore.

As of Sept 2016 you need a licence if you use iPlayer, whether that's live, catch-up or on demand.


But don't you need to put your licence details into iplayer to watch it now? Pretty sure you can't just access it anonymously any more.


No, you just have to register. I am whitefurrybear@gmail.com with a password and thats all they know. Works fine Thumbs Up
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P.
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PostPosted: 16:20 - 08 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
But don't you need to put your licence details into iplayer to watch it now? Pretty sure you can't just access it anonymously any more.


I watch on all available web players and its not asked for anything, TVPlayer on the Xbox just streams that shit Laughing
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