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Drinking yourself to death

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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 12:04 - 14 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

The love for your daughter is big.

Sounds to me you've got it about right although it is a pity that you didn't split acrimoniously like most normal people do. Smile
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 12:11 - 14 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

We did.
But we got over it.

Laughing
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 12:15 - 14 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not, by any stretch of the imagination, a teetotal spoil-sport.
I'm just not a boozer.

I like a drink: champagne not prosecco, or a brace of cocktails or three, a wine and cheese party, a G&T or two, but I get bored of the taste of alcohol.

I never feel the need to drink alone, I'd rather drink coffee or tea or juice. I might have a glass of wine with a proper dinner but once I've finished eating I'm not interested in drinking more. Perhaps one or two with a girlfriend, or at a soiree, but I'd rather eat the cheese, or the roast beef on rye. Eating is my addiction, my go-to comfort thing.

I hate hangovers, have thrown up in my own hair once too often, woken up with someone I don't even like more often than I care to admit, and I don't like the person I am when I am drunk, so I didn't really find booze to be my thing. I enjoy a drink.
But that's about all.

I was reintroduced to weed in my early 40s, long after I had split up with this fella, and I embraced it (passionately, LOL).

The whole time I was married to the guy, I knew he was an alcoholic. He had run off to be in the merchant navy aged 16, which had a huge drinking culture, and he also liked to use the excuse that he was Italian and "Italians always drink wine, its what we do..."

But he was an adoring father, a cracking shag and a great cook.

So I watched him stagger about, I coaxed him out of cars and into the house, I left him to sleep in the bath, I (eventually) wiped up the pasta dinners he had dropped on the floor when trying to eat when intoxicated. He pissed up my leg or my back in his sleep when I was asleep beside him. I aired the mattress, washed the sheets, you get the idea.

But I never once accused him of being a drunken wanker. Because he was the father of my daughter.
He knows what he is. I am powerless to stop him, and I will not even attempt to do so. I might suggest he goes to AA, but his personal brand of scornfulness and vitriol is not something I am bothered about these days.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:46 - 14 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

hellkat wrote:

I was reintroduced to weed in my early 40s, long after I had split up with this fella, and I embraced it (passionately, LOL).


I think this might be how I got myself off the booze. This and a growing interest in music and playing guitar. I did weed to the same extent I did alcohol then for many years, but it was never something I had the same "Oh God, I need it right now!" kind of thing. Weed made me lazy (lazier Laughing ), so that wasn't all good, but it was certainly less of a problem than booze. And when I finally found myself in a situation where it wasn't available anymore, it was no big deal, hasn't been since.

The moral of the story is, if you're an alcoholic, smoke more weed! Laughing
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 15:49 - 14 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oddly enough ... I left him a little bit of weed quite a while ago.

He gave up weed and tobacco years ago, but I had some to spare (cheap leaves, no bud, yay!) so I gave him a little bit of it, in case he felt in the mood, about six months ago. I guess I must have been subconsciously hoping he would drink less brandy and smoke weed instead. I dunno.

When I saw him the weekend before he went into hospital, he admitted that he'd had a little bit of it and that surprisingly he felt as though it had helped him think more clearly (!!) So he must have recognised he was having brain fog from the booze.

So while I was tidying up, I just tucked away what was left of it; he can do what he wants with it, at a later date.

I've not chucked out his brandy or his rum, either - and I noticed when I stopped in to visit on Friday that he had already poured himself a small glass of wine, but that's not for me to try and push that change through.
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 15:56 - 14 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
The moral of the story is, if you're an alcoholic, smoke more weed! Laughing


I'll drink to that Mr. Green Thumbs Up
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:59 - 14 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

hellkat wrote:


I'll drink to that Mr. Green Thumbs Up


Great, I'll put the kettle on Smile
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 16:30 - 14 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could murder a whiskey sour, though.

Just a little one ... Laughing
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MCN
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PostPosted: 18:03 - 14 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grubscrew wrote:
The liver is an incredible organ in the body, the stuff we throw down our throats, some of which is not conducive to a healthy life if done to excess.
Primarily its function is to filter the blood before it can continue around the body to the rest of the organs. Long term drinking causes the liver to develop liver hepatitis, fibrosis, and cirrhosis.
Whilst effects on the bodily organs go unnoticed for a while, the damage is usually on the inside, then the damage is done, as treatment is prolonging the patient eventual but early demise.


Kidneys filter, remove certain compounds by osmosis.
The liver metabolizes, by chemical and enzyme action.
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Robby
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PostPosted: 19:28 - 14 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

hellkat wrote:


When I converse with him, he is often at first quite disjointed and forgetful but after a few minutes he gets into the rhythm of how we talk to one another and he reverts to almost normal conversations. Its clear that when I talk to him, he comprehends most of what I say and seems able to process and recall it.



Is this in English or Italian, or both?
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MCN
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PostPosted: 21:39 - 14 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

hellkat wrote:
I am not, by any stretch of the imagination, a teetotal spoil-sport.
I'm just not a boozer.

I like a drink: champagne not prosecco, or a brace of cocktails or three, a wine and cheese party, a G&T or two, but I get bored of the taste of alcohol.

I never feel the need to drink alone, I'd rather drink coffee or tea or juice. I might have a glass of wine with a proper dinner but once I've finished eating I'm not interested in drinking more. Perhaps one or two with a girlfriend, or at a soiree, but I'd rather eat the cheese, or the roast beef on rye. Eating is my addiction, my go-to comfort thing.

I hate hangovers, have thrown up in my own hair once too often, woken up with someone I don't even like more often than I care to admit, and I don't like the person I am when I am drunk, so I didn't really find booze to be my thing. I enjoy a drink.
But that's about all.

I was reintroduced to weed in my early 40s, long after I had split up with this fella, and I embraced it (passionately, LOL).

The whole time I was married to the guy, I knew he was an alcoholic. He had run off to be in the merchant navy aged 16, which had a huge drinking culture, and he also liked to use the excuse that he was Italian and "Italians always drink wine, its what we do..."

But he was an adoring father, a cracking shag and a great cook.

So I watched him stagger about, I coaxed him out of cars and into the house, I left him to sleep in the bath, I (eventually) wiped up the pasta dinners he had dropped on the floor when trying to eat when intoxicated. He pissed up my leg or my back in his sleep when I was asleep beside him. I aired the mattress, washed the sheets, you get the idea.

But I never once accused him of being a drunken wanker. Because he was the father of my daughter.
He knows what he is. I am powerless to stop him, and I will not even attempt to do so. I might suggest he goes to AA, but his personal brand of scornfulness and vitriol is not something I am bothered about these days.


AA is a crock of shite. I think it is religious based nonsense that it's proven does not work.
There are better 'programes' to try.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 21:41 - 14 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I've encountered addicts in my life I've always tried to see if there's some sad soul trapped inside desperately trying to escape the hole they're in but unable to find a way out. These are the ppl you need to help.

But sometimes, very rarely, there's nothing left to salvage, maybe there never was. And then you need to walk away.

Is that cruel? Would you feel guilty? If the ship is definitely sinking there's nothing noble about going down with it along with its captain.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 00:10 - 15 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

hellkat wrote:
he also liked to use the excuse that he was Italian and "Italians always drink wine, its what we do..."


That's interesting.

Italians do drink wine, it's true. But they exercise moderation - it's not a country full of people dying from booze (unlike, say, France in the 70s and 80s, where it was the leading cause of death, even surpassing old age!) Moderation is intrinsic to Italian drinking habits. For starters, they don't drink alone but in company (perhaps this custom originates from the Roman symposium). Second, they drink with food, like the Spanish do. Third, they know how to stop after n glasses (n being 2 or 3).

Puritanical and polarised attitudes towards booze are, on the other hand, as British as fish and chips. It would be completely pointless to tell that guy to stop drinking - of course he would pour scorn on the idea. Drinking bad, not-drinking good isn't an argument that would stand a chance, because it's mixed up with that whole protestant sin-and-repentance (AA-type stuff) thing, whereas from his cultural perspective, wine is the holy sacrament, the literal blood of Jove, etc.

Like the Aussie expat whose Asian friends couldn't help him stop drinking too much (he had the "excuse" of having hard-drinking genes unlike them) but his Aussie friends and family back home probably could, your ex-husband is probably better off in an Italian surrounding where people can keep an eye on him, know what to tell him and put him back on a course of moderation. Let's face it, British people are unlikely to provide the almost melodramatic emotional backdrop to any support from which he would benefit.
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 09:04 - 15 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

HardlyDavidson wrote:
When I've encountered addicts in my life I've always tried to see if there's some sad soul trapped inside desperately trying to escape the hole they're in but unable to find a way out. These are the ppl you need to help.

But sometimes, very rarely, there's nothing left to salvage, maybe there never was. And then you need to walk away.

Is that cruel? Would you feel guilty? If the ship is definitely sinking there's nothing noble about going down with it along with its captain.


Hmmm? Interesting stuff.
From what I see and it is only one view point.
99% of the alcoholics I come across are selfish and dont want help offered to them.
We all know its hard to fight an addiction, but from what I see, most dont want to fight their addiction.

Offer the help, if they dont take that help, why feel guilty?
Guilt will only make those trying to help feel bad.
Then there are two people in a bad place because one person wont stop their destructive behaviour.

Maybe I do have a jaded outlook on this matter?,
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 12:44 - 15 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, neighbour over the road was a right lush. Tried to avoid her parties 'cos it was a glass of vodka with a thimble of cola Sad

She died in her 40's - definitely some drinking to cover for something else but sadly wasn't around long enough to really get to know her.

Ex-business partner though was definitely your selfish alcoholic didn't matter to him that he was turning up a clients' sites pissed at 11am... didn't care how much shit I got when he turned up late, e.g. past 11pm, at some sites demanding drink when he could barely walk. (Damn you, Uber, you're an enabler!)
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MCN
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PostPosted: 21:14 - 15 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

HardlyDavidson wrote:
When I've encountered addicts in my life I've always tried to see if there's some sad soul trapped inside desperately trying to escape the hole they're in but unable to find a way out. These are the ppl you need to help.

But sometimes, very rarely, there's nothing left to salvage, maybe there never was. And then you need to walk away.

Is that cruel? Would you feel guilty? If the ship is definitely sinking there's nothing noble about going down with it along with its captain.


People do not fight their addictions because the do not want to.

They cannot help themselves that is the issue. It doesn't strictly speaking make them bad people coz they drink.
There are other personality disorders that cater for that.
There are many 'caring' people who are jaikeys.
It is just not easy to change or help them.
Usually they only accept help when the crash.
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 22:12 - 15 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robby wrote:
Is this in English or Italian, or both?


That was a good question. I decided to ask him about whether he still has his Italian faculties, when I stopped by to see him tonight.

We never really conversed in Italian back in the day, not even with his mother. But if we were in Italy with his uncles and cousins, then he would pick it back up really quickly.

I suggested this evening that he "exercise the muscle" (although I didn't use that terminology, he would have hated it, LOL) ... by listening to some stuff on TV in Italian and see if he still understands it and can respond back.

He said he might...
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 22:26 - 15 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bhud wrote:
Italians do drink wine, it's true. But they exercise moderation - it's not a country full of people dying from booze (unlike, say, France in the 70s and 80s, where it was the leading cause of death, even surpassing old age!) Moderation is intrinsic to Italian drinking habits. For starters, they don't drink alone but in company (perhaps this custom originates from the Roman symposium). Second, they drink with food, like the Spanish do. Third, they know how to stop after n glasses (n being 2 or 3).


Yes, that's how it used to be. And that was the sort of justification he used to use ... he was only having a couple with dinner.
Or a couple on Sunday morning, with espresso, before going to his mother's for dinner. A couple of civilised beakers of wine, just two fingers, that sort of thing. Ended up being a bottle and a half, cos i would only have drank a glass or so, whilst eating. The number of times I wanted to say "You don't *have* to finish the bottle".

But I'm pretty sure the rot had set in long before that, as when I met him in 1985/86, he was smashing Tennants Extra on a regular basis.

He drinks alone now because he's such a grumpy old fucker that nobody wants to stick around to listen to the vitriol. Actually, he doesn't *always* drink alone. His next door neighbour sometimes comes in and they cook things like salt cod with rice, and drink brandy and Mount Gay white rum together Rolling Eyes


Quote:
...your ex-husband is probably better off in an Italian surrounding where people can keep an eye on him, know what to tell him and put him back on a course of moderation.

There are not very many of the old ones left, he is 66 already himself, and even his cousins are now ageing and self-involved with their own ailments. Almost all his uncles and aunts have died by now. Italy would not be good to him.

I've tried to talk him this evening into making alterations to his social life, which mostly he was scornful and dejected about.

But now that you mention that, I might just drag him along to the Italian church for the Our Lady of Mount Carmel festival that I am planning to attend, and let him have a bit of a chat to some Italians in London, see how that pans out. He might find some old muckers to hang out with.

Cool Thumbs Up
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 22:32 - 15 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyhow, I'm not "going down with the ship".

My main reason for doing this at all is that I couldn't look Anita in the face if her father died and I couldn't honestly tell her that I tried to keep an eye on him, or to help him, even a little bit, when he needed
it. Even if he pegs it or goes ga-ga, I have to be able to live with myself in her company knowing that I did what I could, but in fact he's already done most of the damage himself.

We had quite an in-depth conversation about several things that hopefully gave him some food for thought. I did attempt to open up the "curbing the drink" question but not in a huge way.

I think just putting ideas back in his head is all I can do. I've done my kinda-weekly visit and now I have a whole rake of my own shite to deal with which I have put on hold till he got out of hospital, and on top of that there's Easter and dogsitting with Max, so I won't be likely to be back there until more than a week's time. (Max chased his cat last time we were there together, so I can' risk having that happen again, LOL)

I'm working on setting the scene for the subject of the reason they are medicating him with Thiamine is because the boozing has fucked the wiring in several of his systems. Its not dawned on him yet, and he doesn't "do" internet, so can't research it.

Hopefully he will cope. I guess if he doesn't, the carers and occupational therapists will be certain to let me know. I've done my bit, I'm at arms length if they want to talk to me about their work with him.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 02:26 - 16 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

hellkat wrote:
Anyhow, I'm not "going down with the ship".

My main reason for doing this at all is that I couldn't look Anita in the face if her father died and I couldn't honestly tell her that I tried to keep an eye on him, or to help him, even a little bit, when he needed
it. Even if he pegs it or goes ga-ga, I have to be able to live with myself in her company knowing that I did what I could, but in fact he's already done most of the damage himself.

We had quite an in-depth conversation about several things that hopefully gave him some food for thought. I did attempt to open up the "curbing the drink" question but not in a huge way.

I think just putting ideas back in his head is all I can do. I've done my kinda-weekly visit and now I have a whole rake of my own shite to deal with which I have put on hold till he got out of hospital, and on top of that there's Easter and dogsitting with Max, so I won't be likely to be back there until more than a week's time. (Max chased his cat last time we were there together, so I can' risk having that happen again, LOL)

I'm working on setting the scene for the subject of the reason they are medicating him with Thiamine is because the boozing has fucked the wiring in several of his systems. Its not dawned on him yet, and he doesn't "do" internet, so can't research it.

Hopefully he will cope. I guess if he doesn't, the carers and occupational therapists will be certain to let me know. I've done my bit, I'm at arms length if they want to talk to me about their work with him.


Someone's addiction can be another person's sentence.
That is the worst part of relationship involving addicts.
The professionals get to go home.

There's a great old movie with Andy Garcia and Meg Ryan
'When a man loves a woman'. Really scary.
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Robby
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PostPosted: 07:22 - 16 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

hellkat wrote:

I suggested this evening that he "exercise the muscle" (although I didn't use that terminology, he would have hated it, LOL) ... by listening to some stuff on TV in Italian and see if he still understands it and can respond back.

He said he might...


It would be a useful diagnostic test and recovery aid.

As I'm sure you know, but others reading this may not, languages you learn in early childhood occupy a different part of the brain to languages you learn later on. I'm assuming he grew up speaking Italian and then learned English.

The stroke(s) have severed connections and damaged parts of his brain. One of the best ways of rebuilding those connections and accessing locked out memories is by talking and reminiscing. If it hard to do that in English, then it might be better to do it in Italian. May also help to get his English back.

Getting off the booze will help, but that's a fairly empty statement. He'll only stop when he wants to, and addicts need an addiction. See if you can get him hooked on candy crush instead.
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 10:00 - 19 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had to deal with an alcoholic at work yesterday.
I can see why people, and that includes me think most of them are a waste of oxygen.
He came in with stomach and chest pains and was clearly in a bad way.
Five minutes into his assessment, hes swearing and threatening staff .

Duty of care and all that, so we are bound to care for/ treat him.

Five minutes later hes absconded because he wants a fag and I need a f*cking drink you c*nts
After explaining to him he needs to go inside and comply or we cant help him, he demands his treatment outside in the smoking area so he can continue to have a ciggy and a drink??.??? Really??

The whole time he was in our company, he was abusive and threatening to everybody.
What a waste of space.
Personally, Id send him to Switzerland Wink
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 11:31 - 19 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're a pain in the arse.

I've ended up living with an assortment of boozers over the years, their antics really are quite tedious.

Fortunately my latest one (when he's around) is not so much of a boozer, thank goodness. Or at least, if he is, then its not around me.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 09:47 - 23 Apr 2019    Post subject: Re: Drinking yourself to death Reply with quote

hellkat wrote:


But they have prescribed him some mega doses of Thiamine and other B vitamins, which is the thing they give to problem drinkers who are on the verge of fucking themselves up very badly with the amount of boozing they do.


Good nutrition is key to helping a heavy drinker. Without Thiamin the body cant repair itself and particularly badly effected is the nervous system and the brain. Drinkers tend to have a poor diet getting their calories from the sugars in booze instead of proper food. So importantly make sure he takes his meds and that he eats nutritious meals. Watch out for any changes in his general health such as changes in weight, loss of strength, difficulty walking, loss of feeling in his extremities and loss of dexterity. Reducing the total amount of alcohol consumed and having drink free days can massively improve general health and importantly the bodys resilience to other health issues. Ive worked for years supporting alcoholics and specifically alcohol related brain damage. If your ex has had a stroke that may complicate getting an acurate assessment of what neurological damage heavy drinking may have done but at least he will have had a brain scan so some base assessments of brain health has created a benchmark fir any future issues.

The best thing is obviously to stop drinking but short of that I have to emphasise again, good nutrition is absolutely vital. Hope that helps.
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 23:15 - 24 Apr 2019    Post subject: Re: Drinking yourself to death Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
really interesting stuff


Yes it does help.
His nutrition is already pretty good. He eats almost no readycooked food, prepares most things from scratch. He loves to cook, always has.

The fact that they are dosing with thiamine is what brought it home to me that they were treating the boozing, and not the stroke.

When he came out of hospital, I checked his medications for new ones and when I realised that B vitamins were the only change to his medication regime, I knew they had decided it was the alcohol induced brain damage that need treating the most.

As I am probably one of the few people who could tell how he's changed, I tried to quantify some of the possible changes during phone calls from the neurologists, but it would take me a long time to unpick all the different "brain-related" symptoms and how he used to be, from how he is now. Doctors simply don't have that much time to spend.

He shouted at me yesterday on the phone and then hung up on me (typical behaviour) ... so I've taken a back seat. I am happy to be relieved of the responsibility of giving a shit.

So although I've vaguely promised to pop in and see him from time to time, my next official visit is likely to not be until the 8th when his sister and I agreed to inflict ourselves upon him en masse.
He's not going to like that Shocked
Meh.

Our daughter's home for 3 weeks in less than a month's time (yay, excited mum).
That should be ... *sigh* ... stressful.
For all concerned.
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