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XJ600 exhaust "bubble", rough idle

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Cichy92
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Joined: 03 May 2019
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PostPosted: 17:46 - 03 May 2019    Post subject: XJ600 exhaust "bubble", rough idle Reply with quote

Hello
I have some trouble with my XJ600. When bike idle, left exhaust have tendency rev up (from 1200rmp to 2000rpm especially after warm up ) and bubbling exactly like a car in yt link below.
I cheked the temperature of mainfold for each cylinder. First one had less temperature than others, it was warm but not hot.
I checked and swapped coils, intake rubbers and spark plugs but nothing really changed, first mainfoild still colder than others.
All carburetors have same pilot jet number of turns out - 2, like manual says.
I can't figure it out.
If that bubbling means the first cyliner has too much or less fuel?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKXOAWyCV7A
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 17:54 - 03 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check the wiring from the tdi to the coil.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:36 - 03 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

squirt, squish, spark, bang Very Happy

9 out of 10 times you're missing a spark (as Nobby suggested) so check that first.

If you turn it over a bit you can also give the plug a sniff for fuel when you take it out to test the spark. (Take out one of the others to compare if you're still not sure.) A dry plug would hint at a fuel supply problem (either to the carb or the carb itself.)

If spark and fuel is good I'd do a compression test. Easier to get one of the gauges for that on a multi-cylinder engine. Compression down might hint at a valve problem.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:48 - 03 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suck, squish, bang, blow...
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 20:11 - 03 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Suck, squish, bang, blow...


I don't do blow any more, too old for that now Sad
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Cichy92
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PostPosted: 21:18 - 03 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Check the wiring from the tdi to the coil.

You mean wiring from CDI to the coil?
XJ have two coils, one for 1-4 cylinder and second for 2-3 cylinder.
If coil has been bad, fourth cylinder would have to have misfire too.
Tomorow i will check compression and fuel sign on spark plug.
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jaffa90
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PostPosted: 22:11 - 03 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

""""When bike idle, left exhaust have tendency rev up (from 1200rmp to 2000rpm especially after warm up )""""?????????????

I do not understand that!

When were the valve clearances checked?

Also what did the spark plugs tell you?
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Cichy92
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PostPosted: 06:54 - 04 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaffa90 wrote:
""""When bike idle, left exhaust have tendency rev up (from 1200rmp to 2000rpm especially after warm up )""""?????????????

I do not understand that!


Sorry, I wrote this badly.
Proper sentence:
" When bike idle, have tendency to rev up (floating) from 1200rpm to 2000rpm. Left exhaust sound like bubbling or puffing.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 09:29 - 04 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Possibilities are:

- Running lean (engine needs less fuel when hot)
- Vacuum leak somewhere
- Carbs out of balance
- Electrical problem: intermittent spark means fuel-air mix isn't always being burned in a cylinder but instead gets thrown down hot exhaust system.

Diagnostic method first, solution later.

Step one: take out spark plugs, examine and report.
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jaffa90
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PostPosted: 09:29 - 04 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does this bike have a vacuum petrol tap with a pipe going to the said left cylinder?
Could be the choke not shutting off properly or varying fuel level in the float chamber/s.

Also my last post?
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Cichy92
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PostPosted: 16:06 - 04 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bhud wrote:
Possibilities are:

- Running lean (engine needs less fuel when hot)


I think lean = hot, engine needs more fuel when hot.

Okay, time to few things update.
First step compression - checked for all cylinders same value 9bar also valve clarence are fine i did it few months ago. Bike easly reaches max rpm 10.5k and v-max.
Next i checked the wiring from CDI unit to coils, without any problem.

I cannot distinguish any changes between spark plugs, because bike in higher rpm run smoothly, misfire occurs only on idle. All spark plugs have little bit oil only on threads.

The weirdest part:
When im turning out mixture screw in first cylinder (one turn) the mainfold is hotter than before but mainfold in fourth cylinder is colder than before! How?!
To compensate it im also turning out screw in fourth cylinder what causes that is become again hot but now right exhaust have tendency to puffing.
What the hell is going on? Its kind of magic?

jaffa90 wrote:
Does this bike have a vacuum petrol tap with a pipe going to the said left cylinder?
Could be the choke not shutting off properly or varying fuel level in the float chamber/s.

1. Yes, when im disconnecting it engine starts choking and rev going down.
2. I checked it, float levels in bowls as well choke shutting properly
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temeluchus
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PostPosted: 16:24 - 04 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it a carbed diversion or pre diversion XJ600 or a fuel injected watercooled divvy?

Assuming its the aircooled Diversion XJ600, I would suggest:

-Remove the fuel tank
-inspect the balancing ports on the inlets and make sure they are all blanked off
-remove all the plug caps and make sure neither the caps or the end of the wires are corroded
make sure the airbox is securely fitted and the tubes to the carbs are secure
-before you refit the fuel tank, drain all four float bowls. Water in the fuel can cause this kind of spitting/farting nonsense.

Once thats done we will have more to go off of.
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jaffa90
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PostPosted: 17:12 - 04 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

""" Yes, when im disconnecting it engine starts choking and rev going down. """

Does this vacuum pipe smell of fuel?
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Cichy92
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PostPosted: 18:04 - 04 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

temeluchus wrote:
Is it a carbed diversion or pre diversion XJ600 or a fuel injected watercooled divvy?

It is a carb diversion air cooled XJ 600 97r 4BR .


jaffa90 wrote:
""" Yes, when im disconnecting it engine starts choking and rev going down. """

Does this vacuum pipe smell of fuel?


Maybe just a little bit but if i clog that hose with a finger bike returns to previous state.

What else i noticed. Bike has much more tendency to floating when it is very warmed. Reving up to 2000rpm for 3 second and back to 1200rpm for 5 seconds, over and over again.
Second issue, when im turn on blinker, the lights and dashboard they are dimming not much but enough to see it. I cleaning the battery connectors and negative wire from ground to battery but did not help.


Last edited by Cichy92 on 19:58 - 04 May 2019; edited 2 times in total
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:13 - 04 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait... mis-fire on idle? Pilot jet blocked on one carb?
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jaffa90
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PostPosted: 20:37 - 04 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

HardlyDavidson wrote:
Wait... mis-fire on idle? Pilot jet blocked on one carb?


Maybe,

i hope it`s not running on 3 cylinders and sometimes 4 cylinders on tick over / idle only.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 21:52 - 04 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think lean = hot, engine needs more fuel when hot.


No. Engine needs less fuel when hot.

I have the same bike as you and zero problems - I've probably been through them all in the past. The difference is, there is a problem in your method of fault diagnosis. You need to pick a possibility then rule it out by testing, not randomly stab in the dark.

It would be pointless to suggest looking at spark plug condition and colour as this has been suggested twice already. I won't suggest checking for vacuum leaks around manifolds either.
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Cichy92
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PostPosted: 09:14 - 05 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bhud wrote:

It would be pointless to suggest looking at spark plug condition and colour as this has been suggested twice already. I won't suggest checking for vacuum leaks around manifolds either.


I took bike for a short ride 30km and I left the motorcycle for a few minutes on idle.
I have pulled spark plugs and i what i can say 2,3,4 cyl. - have same colour of electrodes. For example picture of 3rd cylinder below.
Only 1st cylinder has more whiter electrode and tiny particles on the surface.
Photos
3rd - https://i66.tinypic.com/2sb6715.jpg
1st - https://i66.tinypic.com/2mxeph5.jpg
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 10:47 - 05 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cichy92 wrote:
I took bike for a short ride 30km and I left the motorcycle for a few minutes on idle.


Cichy92 wrote:


This is far too lean after a few minutes on idle. This is cylinder 1, the cylinder that didn't get hot, correct?

You stated you swapped coils, intake rubbers and plugs, but this situation remains the same. This rules out electrical problems.

In this situation, I would suspect a carburettor problem - probably carb 1. Insufficient fuelling over carb 1 could be caused by a float problem or a blockage in the pilot circuit, or incorrect fuel-air mixture screw setting, or out of sync butterfly.

it seems it's time to remove the carburettors and overhaul them. Don't separate them out but make sure you blast compressed air into all the tiny passages. Pay particular attention to pilot circuit first, then float levels and float functionality.

The pilot jets on these bikes are very easily blocked, and it can happen often if the bike has any bad fuel, particles in the fuel or is just left sitting (doesn't take long). You should be able to see a nice round hole with an equal amount of light through each pilot jet. If they're blocked, that's the starting point. I have a method to clear these tiny holes.

Once this is done, bench synchronise the carbs, set mixture screws to 2 turns out, put them back on the bike, start it up and this time use a Colourtune to tune the mixture over each cylinder.

I believe this will solve the problems.

OH! And one more thing! Pull your choke in and out a few times and check that it's fully opening and closing each carburettor and not just 3 of them! When it's pushed in, you shouldn't see any brass over any one of the carb's choke plunger. It's an easy thing to miss by mistake - usually a reassembly error where someone has had the carbs apart and put them back together while missing one of the hooks on the main choke rod.
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