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How to get into off roading and some basic terminology?

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Mafioso
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PostPosted: 00:52 - 02 May 2019    Post subject: How to get into off roading and some basic terminology? Reply with quote

Getting off road and being able to take a bike on tour across terrain other than asphalt are some of the biggest reasons i got into biking (I'm currently doing my DAS) but i'm struggling to find info on how to get into it. Are there clubs/groups i could join to learn the basics? Do i need specific off road gear for it or can i get away with the road gear i use?

Also what's the difference between enduro, motocross, and supermoto? I see all the terms floating around but most sites using them expect you to already know what they mean.
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 13:56 - 02 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a good question.
My understanding is the motocross bikes are purely off-road. They have off-road tyres (knobblies), powerful engines and a light frame. They are usually illegal to ride on the road.

Enduro is the halfway house. They can be ridden off or on road but are not ideally suited for either. An example was my KMX125, with enduro tyres (semi-knobbly). Road legal, but it was a mistake to try and corner at significant speed. It is possible to tune them more to offroad riding by swapping the tyres to knobblies.

Supermoto's are suitable for road riding. They have small wheels and road tyres (slicks). Much easier to corner on them but I wouldn't think of taking one off road without a wheel swap.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 14:33 - 02 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

bhinso wrote:
It's a good question.
My understanding is the motocross bikes are purely off-road. They have off-road tyres (knobblies), powerful engines and a light frame. They are usually illegal to ride on the road.

Enduro is the halfway house. They can be ridden off or on road but are not ideally suited for either. An example was my KMX125, with enduro tyres (semi-knobbly). Road legal, but it was a mistake to try and corner at significant speed. It is possible to tune them more to offroad riding by swapping the tyres to knobblies.

Supermoto's are suitable for road riding. They have small wheels and road tyres (slicks). Much easier to corner on them but I wouldn't think of taking one off road without a wheel swap.


Sort of right, but Motocross and Enduro are sports which are quite different.

Motocross is a sport performed on prepared tracks, with jumps, berms and ruts, usually mud, or sandy ground. Motocross bikes are peaky vicious things, very tall and very difficult (although not impossible) to make road legal.

Enduro is a sport where people ride off road bikes through long sections of prepared or unprepared countryside over LONG periods of time from a couple of hours to dawn to dusk in some cases. Usually enduro bikes are road legal because there are some byway or green lane sections of the enduro course. They are usually more flexible and a bit heavier than Motocross bikes, but there are some enduro bikes that are basically converted MX bikes. They are still sometimes rather vicious but usually more rideable. The tyres are often similar to MX tyres but are road legal, but I still wouldn't want to do a lot of road miles on an enduro tyre...

Supermoto started in France in the 1980s where they wanted to see which disciplines bred the fastest riders, so they came up with a hybrid style of tarmac and dirt riding somewhat akin to Rallycross in the car world. Road racers competed with MX stars, and the riders were known as "Supermotard"s.

Supermotos are often seen on the road because manufacturers build them, but there is definitely a difference between a competition Supermoto bike and a road bike with some 17" rims and road tyres. You can't generally take them off road unless you are crazy or you convert them back to off road rims with knobbly tyres.

There is also a sort of subset called 'Trail' which is basically a soft-roader with hybrid road/off road tyres. But this term has really fallen out of favour in favour of 'Dual sport' or 'Adventure' in some cases. Usually these bikes are pretty useless off road, but can go off road sometimes.

So what you choose depends on what you want to get out of off roading. Do you want to legally ride on green lanes? do you want to race in Enduros? Do you want to race Motocross? Do you just want a tall ish good looking bike for the road?
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Monkeypony
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PostPosted: 15:08 - 02 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you just want a taste of off road riding, I can highly recommend https://www.mickextanceexperience.com/. Really good set up, plenty of bike time over some fun terrain.

If you want a club or a group of people to ride with who know all the LEGAL lanes you can have fun on, Join the TRF. Most local groups have
non members rides, so you can 'try before you buy', and most groups have a facebook page where you can get details on the aforementioned rides.
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Mafioso
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PostPosted: 23:21 - 08 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
bhinso wrote:
It's a good question.
My understanding is the motocross bikes are purely off-road. They have off-road tyres (knobblies), powerful engines and a light frame. They are usually illegal to ride on the road.

Enduro is the halfway house. They can be ridden off or on road but are not ideally suited for either. An example was my KMX125, with enduro tyres (semi-knobbly). Road legal, but it was a mistake to try and corner at significant speed. It is possible to tune them more to offroad riding by swapping the tyres to knobblies.

Supermoto's are suitable for road riding. They have small wheels and road tyres (slicks). Much easier to corner on them but I wouldn't think of taking one off road without a wheel swap.


Sort of right, but Motocross and Enduro are sports which are quite different.

Motocross is a sport performed on prepared tracks, with jumps, berms and ruts, usually mud, or sandy ground. Motocross bikes are peaky vicious things, very tall and very difficult (although not impossible) to make road legal.

Enduro is a sport where people ride off road bikes through long sections of prepared or unprepared countryside over LONG periods of time from a couple of hours to dawn to dusk in some cases. Usually enduro bikes are road legal because there are some byway or green lane sections of the enduro course. They are usually more flexible and a bit heavier than Motocross bikes, but there are some enduro bikes that are basically converted MX bikes. They are still sometimes rather vicious but usually more rideable. The tyres are often similar to MX tyres but are road legal, but I still wouldn't want to do a lot of road miles on an enduro tyre...

Supermoto started in France in the 1980s where they wanted to see which disciplines bred the fastest riders, so they came up with a hybrid style of tarmac and dirt riding somewhat akin to Rallycross in the car world. Road racers competed with MX stars, and the riders were known as "Supermotard"s.

Supermotos are often seen on the road because manufacturers build them, but there is definitely a difference between a competition Supermoto bike and a road bike with some 17" rims and road tyres. You can't generally take them off road unless you are crazy or you convert them back to off road rims with knobbly tyres.

There is also a sort of subset called 'Trail' which is basically a soft-roader with hybrid road/off road tyres. But this term has really fallen out of favour in favour of 'Dual sport' or 'Adventure' in some cases. Usually these bikes are pretty useless off road, but can go off road sometimes.

So what you choose depends on what you want to get out of off roading. Do you want to legally ride on green lanes? do you want to race in Enduros? Do you want to race Motocross? Do you just want a tall ish good looking bike for the road?


Motocross racing is not what i'm looking for then. Enduro type stuff is definitely appealing, though i don't necessarily want to do it just for the racing, i'd like to be able to take the bike though a field or forest, and just have fun with it - taking obstacles, inclines, learning to do those pivot u-turn thingies, crossing streams, etc. It would also have to be road legal since i have no other means of hauling a bike around.

Based on that, would this be enduro? Dual sport?

Looking at some bikes for sale i was liking the look of the Honda CRF250L which looks like it would fill that role if i found a place to practice/learn. What do you reckon?

Btw thanks to both of you for the explanations!
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Mafioso
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PostPosted: 23:42 - 08 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkeypony wrote:
If you just want a taste of off road riding, I can highly recommend https://www.mickextanceexperience.com/. Really good set up, plenty of bike time over some fun terrain.

If you want a club or a group of people to ride with who know all the LEGAL lanes you can have fun on, Join the TRF. Most local groups have
non members rides, so you can 'try before you buy', and most groups have a facebook page where you can get details on the aforementioned rides.


That Mick Extance thing looks really good, just a shame it's all the way in Wales when i'm in London. So if i did go that would have to be a whole weekend trip.

What's TRF?
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Mafioso
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PostPosted: 23:43 - 08 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also apologies for the late reply.
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 00:53 - 09 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a complete newbie I'd probably look at some instruction before going off road I reckon.

It's perfectly possible without, and to be frank I'm sure most people just get on and do it, but learning to get your weight in the right place and to use the controls properly on different surfaces will take you months if not years of potentially painful and expensive experience before you're really decently competent. A days instruction will cut that right down.

We're going back about a decade now but I did a day's Enduro training in Erith so it's possible to do around London for sure. The place I did it doesn't seem to exist any more, but there's one near Leeds castle which isn't a million miles away.

I also did a week around the south of Spain riding rock/gravel roads and mountain tracks on KTMs, by far one of the most rewarding experiences of my biking life. I don't ride off road often, but it's highly enjoyable and something very much worth pursuing if you're able to.
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 01:15 - 09 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

c_dug wrote:
As a complete newbie I'd probably look at some instruction before going off road I reckon.

It's perfectly possible without, and to be frank I'm sure most people just get on and do it, but learning to get your weight in the right place and to use the controls properly on different surfaces will take you months if not years of potentially painful and expensive experience before you're really decently competent. A days instruction will cut that right down.



This. I'm probably a better rider off road these days, but when I first started I was self taught, then when I went on some off road courses with friends I had a lot of bad habits that I couldn't unlearn in a day, particularly getting the right balance point when I stood up. These days I rarely sit down, as it just feels more natural and comfortable standing up. Another thing, is I never used my front brake, ever. Nowadays I cover the clutch and the front brake most the time when I'm stood up.

My riding came on leaps and bounds when I did some off road courses in N.Z and I learned the most on a tiny CRF230, bit of a mountain goat, just point it up the hill and keep the throttle open and up it went


Last edited by thx1138 on 01:37 - 09 May 2019; edited 2 times in total
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 01:21 - 09 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mafioso wrote:


Looking at some bikes for sale i was liking the look of the Honda CRF250L which looks like it would fill that role if i found a place to practice/learn. What do you reckon?


I started out on a CRF250L. It took a pounding and kept on going, I really liked it. Bit heavy, but I liked it. Well actually I bought a BMW GS Sertao, crashed it, got pinned under it thought "stuff that", bought a ratty old XR250 - wobbled about on it for a few months, and then bought a CRF250L after I wrecked it.

Here are some photos of me on my CRF250L over the last few years;

https://i.postimg.cc/qqPJqQN6/z1.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/c124F1F1/z2.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/XqGNntY0/z3.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/s277pryg/12299289-10153117725381207-9125017663961483938-n.jpg
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Monkeypony
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PostPosted: 06:47 - 09 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mafioso wrote:


That Mick Extance thing looks really good, just a shame it's all the way in Wales when i'm in London. So if i did go that would have to be a whole weekend trip.

What's TRF?


It's only a blast down the M4! There's a couple of good pubs that have rooms in the village. People generally stay the Friday night and head home on the Saturday.

The TRF are these guys...

https://www.trf.org.uk

Local groups all over the country. More opportunities to get out and ride than you can shake a stick at!
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 11:46 - 09 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkeypony wrote:

The TRF are these guys...

https://www.trf.org.uk

Local groups all over the country. More opportunities to get out and ride than you can shake a stick at!



Yes. All four photos above are on TRF rides.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 11:50 - 09 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mafioso wrote:
Monkeypony wrote:
If you just want a taste of off road riding, I can highly recommend https://www.mickextanceexperience.com/.
That Mick Extance thing looks really good

Another vote for Mick Extance, if you can get there - had a great day there a couple of years ago
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 11:58 - 09 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also the Yamaha off road in Wales is good too.
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Kentol750
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PostPosted: 23:36 - 10 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did anyone say join TRF and go to local meeting?
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 23:55 - 10 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kentol750 wrote:
Did anyone say join TRF and go to local meeting?


No.


Well, apart from some of us just a couple of posts ago that is

*ahem* Laughing
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