Chain and sprockets

[Feasty]

Hi all

I fitted a scottoiler to my '98 BMW F650 a few weeks ago - maybe a month by now. Gave the chain a good clean, primed it and got it set to drip frequently enough to keep the chain looking well oiled without flinging excess oil everywhere.
Since then I've had to adjust the chain 3-4 times, the numbers displayed on the swing-arms tells me it's not just been coming loose again and I'm guessing this is also telling me the chain is stretching and in need of replacing.

Previously I used the thick white chain lube/wax, but just wondering if anyone can tell me - the change to oil shouldn't make the chain this much 'looser' should it?
I've had the bike a year now, done about 4k miles on it and I've no idea how old the chain is...
I'm also guessing I should be replacing the sprockets so the set is all new.
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Previous: Aprilia Habana Retro 50cc (beauty), Yamaha SR125 (fell apart), Honda XR125 (nippy little commuter), Honda SLR650 (Geewhizz), Yamaha Diversion 900S (Smoooooth) written off courtesy of a stupid escaped horse.
(7 year gap), BMW F650 (Relaxing ride). Aprilia Caponord ETV1000 (Big and bold). Yamaha FZS600 (got me in trouble too quick!).
Current: Yamaha TDM 900 (Comfy, light but big, power when needed).

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

Forget lubrication for a second. Are you *absolutely* sure the slack spots i.e. the points of uneven tension on the chain are in the same place every time you rotate the rear wheel?

I appreciate this looks like a strange question but did you notice my recent thread on the subject?

https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=327622

Summarily, unless the sprocket is sitting totally true and straight on the carrier there is likely to be a marked degree of uneven tension.
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"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125

[Confusion]

[jaffa90]

Trail type bikes have a lot of swing arm movement and long rubber pads in the chain run and the chain needs to be more slack.
Try and check the tension fully laden if possible to give you an idea.

[Teflon-Mike]

What type of chain is it?

O-Ring chains don't actually need very much lubing; the seals are there to hold factory fitted grease in the chain between the rollers and pins; IF the chain is good and seals doing their job, the chain is effectively lubed-for-life on the major load bearing faces; you only need the lightest bit of lube on the outside of the rollers for when they take up on the sprocket,; and once there shouldn't move so need lubing.

A-N-D.. maybe pertinant to this niggle; but, lube on the outside of the chain acts like glue to stick road grit to the chain, and make a grinding paste, to actually help make rollers and sprocket wear out sooner....
Now a Scottoiler. could actually be more of a hinderance than help, making sure that there's always a coating of nice new glue to stick ever more chit to help wear out C&S, WHILE, act of fit and forget kicks in, and "Oooh I dont NEED clean my chain.... I have a Scotoiler!".....

For thirty years, I have listened to people variously swear by... and as often swear AT Scottoilers.....

I have to say that I am NOT a particular fan, and even before sealed-ring-chains came along, they were something that I was more than a little sanguine about....

Starting in School-boy trials, I was drilled in a lot of old-skool maintenance; a significant bit being regular hot-dipping the chain. Take the thing off after every event; clean it, then drop it in a jam-jar of old engine oil, and go clean the rest of the bike, particularly sprockets' and once or twice a season, get an old saucepan and a camping stove; put the chain into pan with deseasil and or parafin and simmer on gas mark 2 for twenty minutes to 'boil' crud out the links... then swap saucepans, and do likewise in a pan of old dip axle grease; the grease melting and seeping into the links pushing out old crud; then third dip, yet another pan of axle grease, nice clean fresh this time, and the heat melting the grease so that it flows into the links and leaves nice lubes coating on all the faces... remove, let the excess drip back into no2 pan, allow to cool, then fit just before start of next event.... Forty years ago, 'old boys' swore by this precaution, not just for drive chains but the nadgery primaries on old brit bikes between crank and clutch that begged frequent and awkward adjustment, and was a common bit of spanner twiddling regular road-riders used, not just trials riders.... we wont mention the road-racers, who filled bantum gearboxes with photo-copier powder, or set fire to chains and stuff with a blow torch, for 'graphite' lube... but I just have!

ANYWAY... point is that this sort of exercise of old, WORKED, and really does extend chain life. Old Brit-bikers muttering about the fact they 'never' had to buy a C&S kit, or compers commenting on how many seasons they would get from one.... and I have to say, I need a new chain for my trials bike.... I forgot where I put the jam-jar! Otherwise it HAS lasted since 1987!

B-U-T, I suspect as much as the way of getting lube where needed, between rollers and pins in the chain, MORE than anything, the diligence of cleaning the chain at whatever intervals, and getting rid of the build up of grinding paste on the sprockets, is probably as much or more to do with it, than either the way of lubing or the type of lube used....

And a Scottoiler... that suggests fit and forget, NOT doing the cleaning and adjusting so often, IS as much a double edged sword here, and in begging owners omit that cleaning and adjusting of old, likely accounts for folk that swear at them, complainig about never being able to get the drip feed set up exactly right, or the amount of fling they get, or that the chain doesn't seem to last any longer than without it....

So, off the top... after the initial, "hang on! Doesn't the Funduro have an elastic band final drive? What's he doing trying to even oil one, let alone fit an auto-oiler!".... OK, maybe an earlier model.... but...

Parse out the probably red-herring of the oiler....

You say, before oiler, you didn't know how old the C&S was... and still no mention of type.... begs query why fit new oiler to old chain... but more... if the chain was old to start with... how do you know it wasn't kerfkered before you started, and this accelerated wear wouldn't have happened anyway as the chain got to the point surface hardening on the pins and rollers wore through?

Back to Sealed-Ring chains... this is very prenounced on them, and when ring-chains 'go' they tend to go very rapidly; as the eld of life wear starts and is accelerated by load pushing the factory fit grease out the links as the seals fail...

And at that point, no amount of chain lubing or an auto-oiler is a 'cure'... simply be chain be kerfckered! It need new chain.....

And back to top... if you fit nice new C&S of a half decent quality... and employ just a little maintenance diligence, is an auto-oiler actually doing anything to help... esp if O-ring chain....

If me... I would pull the oiler; fit new C&S and see how it goes.... pay attension to the maintenence diligence, especially the cleaning, especially of a ring-chain... and IF I put the oiler back on... which TBH I probably wouldn't... Oh-Kay... that puts some grinding past glue on the thing... It is NOT a fit and forget solution, I STILL need to do the maintenence, and just as often, A-N-D pay attension, and probably more, to keeping C&S grit free......

Fundurto.... is there a retro-fit rubber band kit for these, to use the earlier belt drive? If I didn't want to mess with chains, I think that would probably be a more likely and more useful mod than an oiler, in my monkey-spere, but still.... your call.

What kind of chain is it? (apart from old!!)
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[stinkwheel]

The fun bit with an F650 is that they have a RHS chain. That means that when on the sidestand, any excess chain lube will drip directly onto the wheel itself instead of the road. Just something to be aware of because oily tyres grip fuck all.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Pigeon]

I use an oiler (lubeman, and a DIY version on another bike). Got 30k miles out of original chain on Striple and there was very little wrong with the chain (AFAIK) when replaced it recently due to front sprocket wear due to front sprocket flapping about on its tabbed washer for x thousand miles before I noticed.

But. I also manually poor oil on chain after every 200 miles or so.
Using my fingers to roll each roller, feeling the grit grind through the roller, only to free it up nicely after a few rotations.

So am open to the idea the oiler is doing next to feck all, and that the heavy lubing and finger rolling is what's getting 30k out a chain fairly easily.


Oil is a 60/40 or 40/60 split of 80/90w gear oil and chainsaw oil (split depending on time of year).


.......should probably get out more.


I did use the spray waxes and dry lubes, but don't really see how they actually work as they stick to outside and then get flung off.