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Ste
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PostPosted: 07:03 - 12 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
Ribenapigeon wrote:
What if it turns out Brexit is actually impossible? Has anyone considered this?


There's more chance of you talking sense than leaving the EU being impossible. Thumbs Up

"See ya, we're not paying you anymore, bye". It's that simple.

The Irish border is the bit which is the problem.

Sajid Javid says he thinks the government should spend "hundreds of millions" to find a technological solution which is a nice idea but nothing has been said about how that could or would work. By his own admission, Javid has said that such a solution would require "hundreds of millions of euros, no one really knows because it hasn't been done before".

The border problem is only simple if you're willing for the IRA to make a come back.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 07:54 - 12 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's fine, they aren't Muslims, so it's all gravy.
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mpd72
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PostPosted: 09:07 - 12 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:

The Irish border is the bit which is the problem.


It's not though, is it? This was just a way for the EU to convince us we couldn't leave without their "backstop"

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/brexit/9266026/brexit-irish-border-technology-brussels/

When this solution was suggested by Brexiteers, the Eu rubbished it. Now they're planning exactly the same.

Quote:
BRUSSELS is drawing up plans to use technology on the Irish border — despite rubbishing the idea when put forward by Brexiteers.

Eurocrats will deploy “IT systems” to keep trade flowing between Ireland and the EU via Britain if there’s a No Deal Brexit.


Ste wrote:
Sajid Javid says he thinks the government should spend "hundreds of millions" to find a technological solution which is a nice idea but nothing has been said about how that could or would work. By his own admission, Javid has said that such a solution would require "hundreds of millions of euros, no one really knows because it hasn't been done before".

The border problem is only simple if you're willing for the IRA to make a come back.


Savid Javid is an idiot. By the way, how do you think non EU freight is cleared at Dover? Do you realise all the trucks drive into the the UK uncleared and freight is cleared for them electronically further up the road? Some go up the M20 for over 10 miles to stop at MOTIS at the M20 Services at J11 to collect their paperwork if needed.

I have some customers who clear freight from home offices, so not sure how they get paperwork to the driver. How exactly is Dover a hard border?
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Ste
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PostPosted: 09:23 - 12 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

How exactly is Dover a hard border?

"A ‘hard border’ is the term used to describe checks on people and goods―and the staff, buildings and equipment needed to do that"

https://fullfact.org/europe/avoiding-hard-border-ireland/

"This is the only land border between the UK and the rest of the EU and at the moment there are no barriers and checks along it. The House of Commons Northern Ireland Affairs Committee described the border as having “unique political significance due to the history of Ireland and conflict in Northern Ireland.” "
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mpd72
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PostPosted: 09:59 - 12 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
How exactly is Dover a hard border?

"A ‘hard border’ is the term used to describe checks on people and goods―and the staff, buildings and equipment needed to do that"

https://fullfact.org/europe/avoiding-hard-border-ireland/

"This is the only land border between the UK and the rest of the EU and at the moment there are no barriers and checks along it. The House of Commons Northern Ireland Affairs Committee described the border as having “unique political significance due to the history of Ireland and conflict in Northern Ireland.” "


There is no hard border at Dover. As I said, lorries drive through and don't get their goods cleared until sometimes 10-15 miles up the road, where they are cleared electronically.

Checks should be made on entry to Ireland or Northern Ireland, there is no need for a hard border between the two. It's just more Project Fear, from the EU this time.
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Last edited by mpd72 on 10:12 - 12 Jun 2019; edited 1 time in total
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Ste
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PostPosted: 10:09 - 12 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

When did they get rid of the passport control / immigration / customs / border force / security staff, buildings and equipment at Dover?
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mpd72
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PostPosted: 10:13 - 12 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
When did they get rid of the passport control / immigration / customs / border force staff, buildings and equipment at Dover?


There is no passport control for incoming at Dover. Customs is nothing more that a drive through.
Have you ever used the Shuttle? You drive straight off and up the motorway.

There's currently nothing between most borders within the EU, so why would we need all this at Dover?
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Ste
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PostPosted: 10:21 - 12 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

So they do have the staff, buildings and equipment at Dover?
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mpd72
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PostPosted: 10:25 - 12 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
So they do have the staff, buildings and equipment at Dover?


Very little is left now. A lot of the customs stuff is now done from Southampton I think they moved it to. A called Pentant in Hampshire now clears stuff 50 miles way in Dover for all the clearance agents.

https://www.descartes.com/pentant
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Ste
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PostPosted: 10:43 - 12 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah yeah yeah, but they can still pull vehicles over at Dover to check who and what is in the vehicle?
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 13:31 - 12 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

kawakid wrote:


I've always held the view, that if you have a labour MP or councillor then you live in a shxt place.

If you have a labour MP and a Conservative councillor, you can guarantee you live in the nice part of a shxt town.

If you have a labour councillor and you live in a town with a Conservative MP, my guess is you live on a council estate.

BTW Both my MP and Councillor is Tory.


Your point being?
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mpd72
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PostPosted: 16:00 - 12 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Yeah yeah yeah, but they can still pull vehicles over at Dover to check who and what is in the vehicle?


If they can find someone from car park ticketing checking duty to bother....

We have a border force who can't even spot rubber speed boats crossing the 25 miles from France to the Kent coast, in the busiest shipping lane in the world. As many phone in for their free tracksuit, housing and beneifts, from smartphones on arrival in the UK, than get caught before entering.
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Last edited by mpd72 on 17:57 - 12 Jun 2019; edited 1 time in total
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cdlxxvi
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PostPosted: 17:10 - 12 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
How exactly is Dover a hard border?

"A ‘hard border’ is the term used to describe checks on people and goods―and the staff, buildings and equipment needed to do that"

https://fullfact.org/europe/avoiding-hard-border-ireland/

"This is the only land border between the UK and the rest of the EU and at the moment there are no barriers and checks along it. The House of Commons Northern Ireland Affairs Committee described the border as having “unique political significance due to the history of Ireland and conflict in Northern Ireland.” "


This is where common sense enters. There are no checks possible that are as frictionless as absence of checks. "Technical solution" is just another species in the Unicornidae family.
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 17:12 - 12 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

One up for the unicorns:

Remainer MPs LOSE crucial vote on blocking No Deal by to 309 to 298: Early win for Boris Johnson as rebels FAIL to seize control of Commons timetable to foil hard Brexit - despite help from Speaker Bercow

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7131891/Remainer-MPs-stage-crunch-vote-TODAY-block-No-Deal-Brexit.html

I thought they'd already ruled that a no deal Brexit was illegal.
I suppose it's because that MP on the tag wasn't there to veto it.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 17:30 - 12 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

bhinso wrote:
One up for the unicorns:

Remainer MPs LOSE crucial vote on blocking No Deal by to 309 to 298: Early win for Boris Johnson as rebels FAIL to seize control of Commons timetable to foil hard Brexit - despite help from Speaker Bercow

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7131891/Remainer-MPs-stage-crunch-vote-TODAY-block-No-Deal-Brexit.html

I thought they'd already ruled that a no deal Brexit was illegal.
I suppose it's because that MP on the tag wasn't there to veto it.


Even with Bercow twisting the rules. They need to get rid of the slimy twat.
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mpd72
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PostPosted: 18:04 - 12 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

cdlxxvi wrote:


This is where common sense enters. There are no checks possible that are as frictionless as absence of checks. "Technical solution" is just another species in the Unicornidae family.


Do you think what's left of border control and HMC&E stop and check every vehicle? Do they feck, most drive straight through. Only a few suspicious ones will get stopped for checking.

These checks should be done on entry to Ireland or Northern Ireland from other countries, not when crossing between the two.

The countries currently have different taxation, tariffs, EU subsidies and currency, so how can we cope now, but not if we leave the EU? What changes exactly, which forces a hard border the Leavers like you, are so desperate to use for an excuse to stop us leaving?
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 18:46 - 12 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
What changes exactly, which forces a hard border the Leavers like you, are so desperate to use for an excuse to stop us leaving?


This is exactly it, no more, no less, just scrabbling around for another excuse not to leave.
The IRA card is another. Either the IRA are going to kick off again, or they're not. If they are, then this can be an excuse, but they'll find something else if it suits them. You DO NOT GIVE IN TO TERRORISM, or threats thereof. Once you start down that slippery slope, you end up like East Germany in the 70s, a haven for all kinds of looney groups.
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 22:14 - 12 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip YFPOS wrote:
mpd72 wrote:
What changes exactly, which forces a hard border the Leavers like you, are so desperate to use for an excuse to stop us leaving?


This is exactly it, no more, no less, just scrabbling around for another excuse not to leave.
The IRA card is another. Either the IRA are going to kick off again, or they're not. If they are, then this can be an excuse, but they'll find something else if it suits them. You DO NOT GIVE IN TO TERRORISM, or threats thereof. Once you start down that slippery slope, you end up like East Germany in the 70s, a haven for all kinds of looney groups.


the whole thing is retarded, if anything, it'll be a hard border for trucks only, so only the wacko's in the IRA that should be shown up anyway will be upset about it
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 22:51 - 12 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would any of you want to man a border crossing on the NI ROI border? Shocked
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HardlyDavidso...
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PostPosted: 23:05 - 12 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm surprised no one's mentioned it but the solution to the "no hard border between NI & Eire" is just to move things...

There is a geographic hard border already: it's called the Irish Sea and the Atlantic. If NI/Eire is such a big deal then move the political EU border to match the geographic one and the border checks will be between Eire and the continental EU. Both sides of the border are then administered by the EU and nothing to do with the UK.

I think if Boris were to quietly suggest this we might see some blushes on the faces of the EU translation team!
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 23:06 - 12 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
Would any of you want to man a border crossing on the NI ROI border? Shocked


I've been across that border many times, years before the GFA and they were tearing down the official checkpoints even then.

It's one of those borders that, if you want to cross it you can, it's virtually impossible to police along it's entire length.

The whole backstop thing is a total red herring, as has already been pointed out, you don't need physical customs checks at border crossings, you can do that at many other points in the movement of goods.

The EU are at pains to point out that different countries have different standards, so let's look at an example of how efficient their checks and balances are - IIRC, we had a big scandal surrounding horse meat in ready meals a few years ago.

Turns out it came from food produced both inside and out of the EU and was being sold across virtually all of the EU, with one of the largest contributors to the contamination being Romania, distributed through France.

Yep, the Eu food standards are really being policed to within an inch of death Rolling Eyes
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Last edited by Shaft on 23:29 - 12 Jun 2019; edited 1 time in total
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 23:16 - 12 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

HardlyDavidson wrote:
I'm surprised no one's mentioned it but the solution to the "no hard border between NI & Eire" is just to move things...

There is a geographic hard border already: it's called the Irish Sea and the Atlantic. If NI/Eire is such a big deal then move the political EU border to match the geographic one and the border checks will be between Eire and the continental EU. Both sides of the border are then administered by the EU and nothing to do with the UK.

I think if Boris were to quietly suggest this we might see some blushes on the faces of the EU translation team!


Shocked
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 23:19 - 12 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shaft wrote:


I've been across that border many times, years before the GFA and they were tearing down the official checkpoints even then.

It's one of those borders that, if you want to cross it you can, it's virtually impossible to police along it's entire length.

The whole backstop thing is a total red herring, as has already been pointed out, you don't need physical customs checks at border crossings, you can do that at many other points in the movement of goods.


Plenty of other countries have long and arguably impossible to hermetically seal borders (USA/CANADA for instance) so I do suspect the NI/ROI border issues is a bit overblown as an issue.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 19:33 - 13 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Britain is in “pretty good shape” if it needs to leave the European Union without a transition deal on Oct. 31, Cabinet Secretary Mark Sedwill, the country’s top civil servant, said on Thursday.

British officials had done a lot of work to prepare for a no-deal Brexit before the original Brexit deadline of March 29, and work had continued since, though preparedness did vary between industries, Sedwill said at an event hosted by the Institute for Government think tank. "

- Reuters, London.
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HardlyDavidso...
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PostPosted: 21:47 - 13 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Huh... I wonder if "May's Delay" will actually be a blessing: allowing more time to prepare for a No-Deal Brexit.
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