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Freddyfruitba... |
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Freddyfruitba... World Chat Champion
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Posted: 16:26 - 13 Aug 2019 Post subject: Coding bootcamps - good idea? |
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I know there are a bunch of people here with various IT backgrounds so hoping that someone may be able to advise...
My son - mid 20s, bright, A-levels but has never really got going with any career - has come up with the idea of enlisting in a coding bootcamp. So apparently, if he pays £6K for a 12-week classroom course he will be pretty much guaranteed a £40K job as a software developer...
Discuss, please? ____________________ KC100->CB100N->CB250RS--------->DL650AL2->R1200RS->R1250RS |
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duhawkz |
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duhawkz World Chat Champion
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Posted: 16:31 - 13 Aug 2019 Post subject: Re: Coding bootcamps - good idea? |
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Freddyfruitbat wrote: | I know there are a bunch of people here with various IT backgrounds so hoping that someone may be able to advise...
My son - mid 20s, bright, A-levels but has never really got going with any career - has come up with the idea of enlisting in a coding bootcamp. So apparently, if he pays £6K for a 12-week classroom course he will be pretty much guaranteed a £40K job as a software developer...
Discuss, please? |
____________________ "The guy is a worthless cunt and I honestly believe I would be a slightly happier person if he died." - Chris-Red |
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Posted: 16:42 - 13 Aug 2019 Post subject: Re: Coding bootcamps - good idea? |
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Freddyfruitbat wrote: | I know there are a bunch of people here with various IT backgrounds so hoping that someone may be able to advise...
My son - mid 20s, bright, A-levels but has never really got going with any career - has come up with the idea of enlisting in a coding bootcamp. So apparently, if he pays £6K for a 12-week classroom course he will be pretty much guaranteed a £40K job as a software developer...
Discuss, please? |
LMAO!!!
Zero experience = zero chance. If he's lucky he might get £15,000 - £18,000 as a junior programmer where he'll have to spend three years sucking the cocks of "proper" programmers to even get a sniff of such work.
It's pretty much a scam. Unless you get an A-Level, BTEC, HND, Degree or whatever at the end of it no one will care.
Better off spending the money on a Uni spot or failing that the Open University. ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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duhawkz |
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duhawkz World Chat Champion
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Ste |
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Ste Not Work Safe
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Evil Hans |
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Evil Hans World Chat Champion
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A100man |
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A100man World Chat Champion
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Riejufixing |
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Riejufixing World Chat Champion
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Posted: 22:56 - 13 Aug 2019 Post subject: |
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Also, whatever course it is I can guarantee it's completely out of date.
Even today my boss was musing on the difficulty of Entity Framework and MVC... like conversing with someone about stone age tools whilst you operate a CNC plasma cutter ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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Hawkeye1250FA |
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Hawkeye1250FA World Chat Champion
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Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy World Chat Champion
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Posted: 04:56 - 14 Aug 2019 Post subject: |
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12 weeks as a programmer, most of which is learning the basics (so not even making or fixing stuff), and having a 40k job at the end of it?
I've been going for about two years now, and as the only programmer in the company I've been immersed neck deep in tons of stuff from day one - web, db, software, apps, you name, I've made it - yet I still feel I have quite the way to go before I can confidently waltz into a 40k job anywhere.
12 weeks
I think the general consensus regarding bootcamps is that they're no better or worse than what a person can do at home self-teaching. I suppose certain aspects of the learning process will be accelerated, but other things simply cannot be learned in a bootcamp. One of the main challenges is problem solving and debugging, which can only be learned through hard experience. 12 weeks isn't enough, it's not like a bootcamp will sit your son down and say to him, "Here are all the problems and bugs you'll encounter in every project you ever do". It doesn't work like that.
Furthermore, bootcamps tend to to teach one thing and one thing only. There's a bootcamp here in Chengdu that focuses primarily on two things - Wechat mini-apps (very important and useful in the Chinese market), and web development using Ruby on Rails. Ruby on Rails holds about 3% market share in web development. I find it absurd that that's what they're teaching at a bootcamp designed to make people quickly employable. Clearly they just don't have anyone available to teach proper web development, so they're offering courses in any old thing to rake a profit.
If your son truly wants to go ahead with a bootcamp, tell him to first research the languages and frameworks he'll be learning, and see if there are related jobs available in the area. For a better chance at finding work, I would suggest looking for ways to learn Java, .NET (C#) or one of the fancy web development frameworks like React. And learn it himself.
Generally, unless the aim is to get into super computers, mainframes or youtube sized databases*, I think self-teaching is best anyway. I think the learning process is much faster and deeper if you have to overcome and research every problem yourself.
*(and to get into big things like that you'll need a Computer Science degree or tons of experience anyway) |
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chris-red |
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chris-red Have you considered a TDM?
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Bhud |
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Bhud World Chat Champion
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Posted: 12:36 - 14 Aug 2019 Post subject: Re: Coding bootcamps - good idea? |
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Freddyfruitbat wrote: | I know there are a bunch of people here with various IT backgrounds so hoping that someone may be able to advise...
My son - mid 20s, bright, A-levels but has never really got going with any career - has come up with the idea of enlisting in a coding bootcamp. So apparently, if he pays £6K for a 12-week classroom course he will be pretty much guaranteed a £40K job as a software developer...
Discuss, please? |
I have a little experience of courses in language acquisition. Quite a few crash courses exist in the world of languages (human ones). The people who attend them aren't ordinary people. They are particularly intelligent and already have a firm basis in language structures and grammar thanks to a knowledge of classical languages. They are funded to attend these courses by government agencies, law firms and the like. They can pick up a new language really quickly. If you want to join in such a course (e.g. at SOAS Language Centre, Ibn Jabal institute or similar) there is no impediment. You pay the fee and do it. However, if you're an ordinary bloke, you will find yourself out of pocket and disappointed. There are huge lists and tables to memorise on a weekly basis. The questions people ask require a high level understanding of language, never mind the answers.
So, in order to avoid ending up like some entitled millenial who's disappointed he didn't get his CBT in one day as well as £6K out of pocket, I suggest your son should avoid that course unless he really is very, very high calibre AND has a sound basis as a programmer in C or C++ or similar. |
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duhawkz |
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duhawkz World Chat Champion
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Posted: 21:57 - 14 Aug 2019 Post subject: |
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TBH knowing C is much like learning Latin. No one speaks/uses it any more but it makes a good base to learn other languages Java and C# is where the money's at these days. ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy World Chat Champion
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Posted: 05:03 - 15 Aug 2019 Post subject: |
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Easy-X wrote: | TBH knowing C is much like learning Latin. No one speaks/uses it any more but it makes a good base to learn other languages Java and C# is where the money's at these days. |
I read recently that C is a bad start for learning programming nowadays. It isn't properly object oriented, which is pretty much the bedrock of commercial software development. Programmers who learn C first then quickly move to, for example, C#, take a lot of bad habits* or obsolete practises with them.
C++ is perhaps a better one if you want to do some 'bare metal' stuff, memory management and all that malarkey.
Java and C# are my main recommendations though, because with those languages you can make any general software you could ever think up, with tons of tools and frameworks available to help. If I want to be really biased, I'll say C# just because that's what I use, and by all accounts it is the technically better of the two. Java is more widely used though, just about.
*Speaking of bad habits... I think the fact that universities now mostly teach Python as an introductory programming language is a very bad sign for future software engineering. It can do the whole OOP thing, but to create a whole generation of people whose first experience is via a dynamic, non-strict scripting language is a disaster waiting to happen. I can only imagine how the code base looks for some of the larger Python projects out there. |
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Posted: 11:35 - 15 Aug 2019 Post subject: |
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There's a fair parity between current versions of Java and C#. However, most of the work I've done on Java tends to be on legacy Enterprise stuff - good luck handling dates with version 6! Rarely does anyone start a fresh project with Java these days...
Oracle
...and that's all I need to say! As has oft been said: what has the world come to when Microsoft is now seen as one of the good guys
Actual languages are a bit of a distraction though as it's really about the methods of working. Being a dab hand with Visual Studio is job in itself My soul dies a little every time I have to fire up Eclipse
And then there's all the bullshit associated with development like sprint meetings where people plan out how much work they're going to avoid doing that month. ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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Evil Hans |
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Evil Hans World Chat Champion
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duhawkz |
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duhawkz World Chat Champion
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Posted: 14:10 - 15 Aug 2019 Post subject: |
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Lord Percy wrote: |
I read recently that C is a bad start for learning programming nowadays. It isn't properly object oriented, which is pretty much the bedrock of commercial software development. Programmers who learn C first then quickly move to, for example, C#, take a lot of bad habits* or obsolete practises with them.
C++ is perhaps a better one if you want to do some 'bare metal' stuff, memory management and all that malarkey.
Java and C# are my main recommendations though, because with those languages you can make any general software you could ever think up, with tons of tools and frameworks available to help. If I want to be really biased, I'll say C# just because that's what I use, and by all accounts it is the technically better of the two. Java is more widely used though, just about.
*Speaking of bad habits... I think the fact that universities now mostly teach Python as an introductory programming language is a very bad sign for future software engineering. It can do the whole OOP thing, but to create a whole generation of people whose first experience is via a dynamic, non-strict scripting language is a disaster waiting to happen. I can only imagine how the code base looks for some of the larger Python projects out there. |
Python 3.6 is statically typed ____________________ "The guy is a worthless cunt and I honestly believe I would be a slightly happier person if he died." - Chris-Red |
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Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy World Chat Champion
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Riejufixing |
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Riejufixing World Chat Champion
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Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy World Chat Champion
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Lord Percy |
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Grubscrew |
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Grubscrew Scooby Slapper
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stevo as b4 |
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stevo as b4 World Chat Champion
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 4 years, 254 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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