Rieju RS3 50 2012 non starter

[unfitforpurpo...]

Hi, hoping for some help.
Bought a 2012Rieju RS3 with AM6 50cc engine as a non starter.
I'm the third person it seems to tackle this non starter and I don't want to be beaten.
I've checked all the usual,
Spark
Fuel
Compression
Crank seals
Reeds
Manifold sealed ok
Exhaust ok
Piston and rings correctly installed (previous owner said he'd stripped it)

The only thing I'm hanging onto at the moment is, I've put a timing light on it, and there are timing marks in the clutch housing that for the first 2-3 revs on the starter align, and thereafter are advanced (btdc).
Is this usual, or should I investigate this further?

Any other suggestions gratefully received!

Many thanks for any input in advance



*Edited : for clarity (non runner/starter)

[Easy-X]

What's actually wrong with it? "Non-runner" might just mean it doesn't have wheels

Not starting?
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[unfitforpurpo...]

Ok yeah sorry - non starter.
I'm a diesel guy up till now, and the ignition timing has got me a bit, but reading up on timing curves on CDI units, I don't think it's out by enough to at least run badly.

Any help gratefully received

[Riejufixing]

[Feathers McGraw]

Get an M14X1.25 Buzzetti micrometer timing tool.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1060/0406/products/Buzzetti_micrometer_large.jpg?v=1527178952

[unfitforpurpo...]

Sweet the manual looks more in depth than the Rieju one.

Also the micrometer looks a good buy for this new nightmare.

Thanks I'll look again tomorrow. Still learning.

[Easy-X]

[unfitforpurpo...]

You got me, I missed that bad boy off the list, I've got strimmer and chainsaws I can mess about with and get alright carefully carb-wise, but I'm getting a wet plug, and the jets, ports and what have you are all real clean, this evening I did notice the pipe up to the diagram jobby on the tank from.manifold side of carb (I think a vacuum pump, can't remember name) was a little split at the end, but when I've got it cranking I can see fuel moving in the filter, and the float chamber in the carb is getting fuel. To rule.it out and for future reliability I'll put fresh pipe on tomorrow.

I'm not looking to piss on anyone's bonfire, but I feel like I've tried most everything!
I am revisiting where I've been before, so I'll go over that closely again too.
Thanks

[Easy-X]

I was going to say "have you tried taking the air box off and squirting in fuel/easy start directly..." but if you have a wet plug I think fuel is getting in

There's only spark and compression left!

<edit>

Have ya checked the valve clearances
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[unfitforpurpo...]

Yeah reed valves spot on.
I haven't got a compression tester, and I prob won't be able to till after the weekend now.
I had discounted it as it felt ok, and the piston and barrel are about 6 months old, of which only about 3 running.
Gaskets look ok.
I can't do anything this weekend but Monday I'll check all the electrical connections and continuity of wires, and try bumping it, I think if it goes then and runs ok I'll compression test it.

Also I tried carb cleaner and brake cleaner to start on which have worked for me before, but nothing.

I haven't tried bump starting before now as - I thought I could find the issue and Bob's your uncle....

[-]

So the plug is wet and the compression is what in PSI?

I've seen one where some tool had fitted a piston back to front. If it's of unknown history, it could be something that daft.
____________________
TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 Sport R, VW Transporter T5 GP LWB Shuttle 140ps DSG.

[unfitforpurpo...]

Yeah piston crossed my mind early on as previous owner said he'd had it apart, but it was correctly installed, piston rings correctly installed piston and bore like new although a light coating of carbon on top, in line with the little use it had had.

I'll likely try compression after weekend and update good or bad.

Thanks

[unfitforpurpo...]

Ok, so excuses first, for a long time now I've not worked on vehicles that you can bump start or they're fixed engines....

So I bump started it, it was a bit starving down low in the revs, spot on above 4500 or so, and wouldn't idle. I admit I haven't searched it yet, but I've got to go sort animals now, but any tips on setting the carb as much as possible will of course be gratefully received. (Btw Filters clean, not sure how the electric (stop?) works on the diaphragm pump on the tank).

It's a dellorto carb
Idle screw - another screw for mix I guess - and circlip on needle


I'm hoping when it's set-up, at least basically, it will start on the electric start, and I can go from there.

Cheers

[unfitforpurpo...]

Update,

Apparently its had a new piston and barrel taking it up to 70cc.

I cannot get it to idle and the bottom end revs are terrible.

It has a Dellorto PHBN 16 carb,
Does it need re-jetting or do I need a different carb for an improved idle circuit?

Definitely goes well at above 5000rpm after a bump start, not starting on electric start

Cheers

[Easy-X]

Idle screw adjustment might help... don't get your hopes up. Blocked pilot/idle jet?
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[-]

[unfitforpurpo...]

Got the carb off at the mo. Tinkering between jobs at work.

I can't decide if the idle jet is partially blocked or just a small port, I can just see light through it when I hold it up to light ( main jet is fine/clear)

The screw holding the choke in was a little too long, and I wondered if it was leaking pressure or vacuum through there as it wasn't holding 'firm' against the external seal, but no improvement after shaving a bit off the screw.

I have had the carb off a few times now but will persist, I'm of course being careful with pipes/manifold each time.

In my limited petrol knowledge I'm sure it's down to the idle circuit, which I'm getting vibes for from you here.

I'm keeping at it.

Cheers

[-]

[unfitforpurpo...]

Thanks.

I left the idle jet in brake cleaner for a couple of hours this morning then pushed a small wire through and compressed air a few times, I'm pretty sure it was closer to idle at lunchtime.
Might just leave the whole thing in cleaner overnight, shit or bust.

[unfitforpurpo...]

Ok,

It's improved, and as far as I can see it's clean right through (carb and fuel lines), the oil pump is bled, so I washed through the premix I had in the tank.
Took her out and got her hot, still sounds starving for fuel under 5000 and wouldn't get up a hill near us. Briefly popping the choke gets a better result blipping the throttle from idle.
The idle sometimes sits at about 2000 lovely, and other times high, or stalls. I can't locate any air leaks etc.
So I'm thinking of just getting a bigger carb now unless anyone fancy a chipping in.
Thanks for your help so far, it's good for motivation!
Cheers

[Easy-X]

Clean the carb again.

Seriously.

A "proper" clean this time

I had three goes at cleaning a carb a while back and it did similar weirdness to what you're describing.

All apart, go over everything with a magnifying glass: get the jets, float pin out, etc. One bit of grit mooching about in there could make all the difference.

If it's still not running well after that THEN you can buy a new carb

Or it's an air leak
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[-]

Air intake leak? You could spray an unlit butane torch around the intake from carb to engine or carb cleaner. Listen for revs increasing for no reason.

I take it the reed valves are in good nick and not cracked or with chipped corners?
____________________
TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 Sport R, VW Transporter T5 GP LWB Shuttle 140ps DSG.

[unfitforpurpo...]

It's been a couple of days, I've stripped and cleaned the carb several more times, there was a nick on the reed valve body against the gasket, but I'd tried the gas torch, which is a great idea thanks but the only difference the torch made was when I was right by the intake (foam cone filter).
I've got it to idle now, whether that was the stripdowns or sealing the nick in the valve body I can't be entirely sure, but it is still starving and boggy down low. I could get up the hill by us in 1st with choke (excess fuel) held on.
I know people follow their heart and not their heads sometimes, but I've gone and ordered a bigger carb. Please don't think too badly of me, but I'm at the point of starting to chuck money at it now.

Thanks for all your help so far!

[Easy-X]

I always look at it this way: unless you have to fix bikes for a living (where time = money) then there are no bad outcomes...

...you really know how carbs fit together now!
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[Feathers McGraw]

Dellorto carburetors are a nightmare to setup.

Cone and pod filters just exacerbate things.

OEM airbox and Polini CP 17.5 carb would save a lot of hassle.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/08HPE6xQypFrYKU0y8TNDc_sNuSdmOxwFkYZPQ7IJPkUIQfmI8KqY5og9geipXDCfWanFjyAs0ALeYAnemFfTOvEDSuWbLnkO-KHZ-YjhHV3kW4DoYSDaYTuMw7uNKwPClZTqPIhp3-DfmMhfNJNzesoOLnqp211LBu1Z5k5_vrwk-dcoxNG_Eu8wsSNNssMw7K0ZlIl3CZ0Erv0QhXhDbT0g365O6sEWPv6hijmU1IJRYs4MRo4mnBLn5TFkv-4UwVKQ_fEbf7lZTplO5OgwYQoaXuA80d9pirR4OlM-FAoAW_UNd_gaUTMbuvZbT9S2DSw9PinZ90IqoN4Hz-0lX6OFGfX9BQAVWjr-D8qUC8JiPiZn7PxhQOWYSP4lPc5bO5-mUbzdikf0FTDRtxEy7xbTCZPsj1WTiDnlQCfLxVa9GHtoND78C6AaCRp26H_iW1VBYFj7crOnpHdd1c4eEqpMQmTisCsKHorDPA0R3GJPTFhTWev5HwDzwQwKWIY9spXhWPidQkfoxNbAtXcvK5QSIQIkvROwF-MX-KB7-uUl55E4BN6rE804s5iBWBpQQ7z4EAPj4DV6VqJrblDhWZQL1B181h5riF_zSrfoL5086gV2ZW88SngDAdOHfMeXcpBMLAyHeTu5VZAOHHzE_TJMT3bhtV7adq3kmVOL9HSw3C6C2foMS9Q=w989-h657-no