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Longevity and waterproof expectations of jackets.

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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 21:43 - 14 Oct 2019    Post subject: Longevity and waterproof expectations of jackets. Reply with quote

Weise fabric jacket as described at:

https://www.sportsbikeshop.co.uk/motorcycle_parts/content_prod/224249

"The Weise Nevada ST is yet another addition to the Weise stable combining both great value and unassuming functionality. The jacket is ready for the weather with a waterproof, windproof and breathable drop lining complemented by a removable thermal quilted lining. Fully armoured, the Nevada ST has adjustments at the waist, sleeves and collar for comfort and fit."


10 months old, lightly used. Would you expect it to be leakproof, or to let in a lot of water at the shoulders and at other places in light rain on a 4-mile journey, which is what it does?
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 22:29 - 14 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Weise jacket, 10 months old, lightly used. Would you expect it to be leakproof, or to let in a lot of water at the shoulders and at other places in light rain on a 4-mile journey, which is what it does?"

Ta.
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Kentol750
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PostPosted: 23:24 - 14 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. Nothing is waterproof if it has vents, or zips. 4 miles at 30mph or 6 at 70mph mean nothing. Testing a jacket isn't legally covered, so, they can say what they like. And, remember, soaked through and dry inside is still soaked. What do you wear the next day? Outdoor gear may work, but is it designed to be in 60mph head on rain? Not for long! Rukka gear is awesome if you can dry it by 8am the next day.
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Kentol750
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PostPosted: 00:02 - 15 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've all been lured into the 4 season jacket type thing. A good leather and some flexible oilskins are much better. Army waterproofs over a decent jacket worked 20 years ago on a fireblade, why not now?

Fuck trends and cool, if I have to wear gear 24/7 it needs to work 24/7.
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NJD
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PostPosted: 00:04 - 15 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure what you're expecting to happen by asking people on a forum if they'd be happy having a motorbike jacket leak on them ten months after investing in it?

Phone the outlet you purchased it from and inquire about warrenty.

Covered = ask for inspection.
Not covered = buy another brand / jacket.

Ignore the bollox about Rukka above: sure their branded the pinnacle of Gortex gear but have an eye-watering price point to match it and far cheaper jackets/brands are available with perfectly satisfactory results. Goretex may be worth it in the range of gloves and boots, mind.

Go to a local outlet and inspect what's on the shelf. If you're going to be riding as the weather continues to decline I'd want -- as you have -- a touring jacket with a half decent wind collar. A jacket that has a non-removable waterproof layer is a bonus too.
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Kentol750
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PostPosted: 00:07 - 15 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

What 'bollox' about rukka?
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kramdra
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PostPosted: 02:56 - 15 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Decent leather jacket, one with no stupid front positioned vents, and treated with nikwax, keeps me 90% dry, and is quicker than anything else to dry out for the next journey. Generally get two years/30k miles before the it starts to look shit and then the zips start to fail anyway.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 03:05 - 15 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

The description kind of sounds like the jacket isn't waterproof at all and it's the lining which is meant to keep you dry.

"The jacket is ready for the weather with a waterproof, windproof and breathable drop lining"

Stupid question time, are you using the supposedly waterproof liner?
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 08:17 - 15 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sounds like that jacket is going to get heavy quickly in the rain and will give you massive windchill pretty quickly too as that wet fabric encounters high wind speeds over it as it sounds like the waterproof liner is "floating" rather than a membrane laminated to the main jacket fabric. I doubt 10 months will make any difference to how waterproof it is; might be some loss of repellency (replenish with Nikwax) but there shouldn't be any "structural" failures at that point. It is more a case of if the jacket was waterproof in the first place . . .

In terms of expectation; my £170 IXS jacket is supposed to be waterproof . . . and it is pretty good to be fair, rode for 2 hours in torrential rain on a mini-tour in May and apart from the cuffs I was reasonably dry, but more importantly I was comfortable. Given I typically would spend double that on a climbing jacket which has a sole purpose of being waterproof (no abrasion/armour etc.) and I'd have moderate expectations of being dry after several hours of rain in the hills, I'm quite pleased.

The combo I tried out on the motorway the other day worked very well; my IXS jacket with an old waterproof over the top; it doesn't add appreciable bulk or weight, but only little bits get through it, meaning the jacket underneath stays pretty dry and I stayed very dry and warm. Probably overkill but it worked for me . . .
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 08:55 - 15 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

NJD wrote:
Not sure what you're expecting to happen by asking people on a forum if they'd be happy having a motorbike jacket leak on them ten months after investing in it?

Phone the outlet you purchased it from and inquire about warrenty.

See title: "Longevity and waterproof expectations of jackets".


I have also enquired of the shop, thank you.


Last edited by Riejufixing on 09:12 - 15 Oct 2019; edited 1 time in total
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 09:01 - 15 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
The description kind of sounds like the jacket isn't waterproof at all and it's the lining which is meant to keep you dry.

"The jacket is ready for the weather with a waterproof, windproof and breathable drop lining"

Stupid question time, are you using the supposedly waterproof liner?


The jacket is not waterproof, but has a one-piece non-removable "waterproof" inner, which is probably intended to cover trickles of water from zips, pockets etc, which it does not do.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 09:12 - 15 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThunderGuts wrote:
It sounds like that jacket is going to get heavy quickly in the rain and will give you massive windchill pretty quickly too as that wet fabric encounters high wind speeds over it as it sounds like the waterproof liner is "floating" rather than a membrane laminated to the main jacket fabric. I doubt 10 months will make any difference to how waterproof it is; might be some loss of repellency (replenish with Nikwax) but there shouldn't be any "structural" failures at that point. It is more a case of if the jacket was waterproof in the first place . . .

In terms of expectation; my £170 IXS jacket is supposed to be waterproof . . . and it is pretty good to be fair, rode for 2 hours in torrential rain on a mini-tour in May and apart from the cuffs I was reasonably dry, but more importantly I was comfortable. Given I typically would spend double that on a climbing jacket which has a sole purpose of being waterproof (no abrasion/armour etc.) and I'd have moderate expectations of being dry after several hours of rain in the hills, I'm quite pleased.

The combo I tried out on the motorway the other day worked very well; my IXS jacket with an old waterproof over the top; it doesn't add appreciable bulk or weight, but only little bits get through it, meaning the jacket underneath stays pretty dry and I stayed very dry and warm. Probably overkill but it worked for me . . .

Thanks. So basically regarding waterproofing only, this type of jacket (you're correct about the "floating" liner, it's a bit like a cagool inside a cloth jacket) should not leak much if at all, and should last a year; maybe longer (anyone got any personal experience of longevity?).

I've never had one of these jackets, having used the same as I think I understand you to have used; a thin waterproof waterproof over something.

Is it OK to apply Nikwax (what sort?) on the inside?
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Ste
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PostPosted: 09:13 - 15 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shocked

Laughing

Back to the shop it goes.
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 09:20 - 15 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
Thanks. So basically regarding waterproofing only, this type of jacket (you're correct about the "floating" liner, it's a bit like a cagool inside a cloth jacket) should not leak much if at all, and should last a year; maybe longer (anyone got any personal experience of longevity?).

I've never had one of these jackets, having used the same as I think I understand you to have used; a thin waterproof waterproof over something.

Is it OK to apply Nikwax (what sort?) on the inside?


Nikwax spray-on waterproofer (https://www.decathlon.co.uk/txdirect-spray-on-500ml-id_8401682.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-c_Tqumd5QIVTbDtCh0iIAzJEAQYBCABEgI0cfD_BwE) is suitable for pretty much anything, it's designed not to damage fabrics. BUT, it isn't going to magically make a jacket waterproof, it'll just help slow the process of the fabric getting saturated. You apply it to the outside.

Assuming the fetching photo above is you after a ride, I'd say the lining is buggered (or was never fit for purpose in the first place). Elbows and armpits suggest a liner that's not got taped seams or perforated (a "floating" liner is easier to damage accidentally too, tears etc.). I'd contact the shop with that photo; I'd argue workmanship defects but the problem with that is they might just send you another one and you're back to square one again. Edit: just spotted it's discontinued so you might be in luck and get a credit note instead
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colink98
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PostPosted: 09:57 - 15 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

given the spray that gets kicked up on the motor way.
the only choice for not having to wear wet clothes is to carry spare dry clothes.
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Confusion
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PostPosted: 10:36 - 15 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:


Back to the shop it goes.


This ^

Maybe I'm an unreasonable bastard, but, I expect bike
gear to be: as described, of merchantable quality and
fit for the purpose for which it was sold.

If it was sold as waterproof, then it must be waterproof.
To me, that means that water can't get through it.

As for longevity, I have found that some of the cheaper
brands don't fare well in wet weather. They may be ok
for a year or so, but the water starts to get in eventually.
Trousers are generally worse than jackets. No one likes
a wet crotch.

My Alpinestars Andes jacket never let in a drop of water in
4-5 years of use. Matching pants stayed dry for 2-3
years until they failed at the crotch.

My current Held and Scott jackets have been reliably
waterproof for several years.
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flea-rider
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PostPosted: 11:56 - 15 Oct 2019    Post subject: Re: Longevity and waterproof expectations of jackets. Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
Weise fabric jacket as described at:

https://www.sportsbikeshop.co.uk/motorcycle_parts/content_prod/224249

"The Weise Nevada ST is yet another addition to the Weise stable combining both great value and unassuming functionality. The jacket is ready for the weather with a waterproof, windproof and breathable drop lining complemented by a removable thermal quilted lining. Fully armoured, the Nevada ST has adjustments at the waist, sleeves and collar for comfort and fit."


10 months old, lightly used. Would you expect it to be leakproof, or to let in a lot of water at the shoulders and at other places in light rain on a 4-mile journey, which is what it does?


the fabric will always get wet .. if you have washed the liner with soap powder it will get wet and leak ..if you have put the liner near a hot radiator it's fecked ..there thousands of little hole in basically plastic heat will melt them soap will block and absorb
I have a Weise but the liner is part of the jacket wash it twice a yr with tex wash from nikwax .. after a soaking it will almost dry over night
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 12:31 - 15 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThunderGuts wrote:
Assuming the fetching photo above is you after a ride, I'd say the lining is buggered (or was never fit for purpose in the first place). Elbows and armpits suggest a liner that's not got taped seams or perforated (a "floating" liner is easier to damage accidentally too, tears etc.). I'd contact the shop with that photo; I'd argue workmanship defects but the problem with that is they might just send you another one and you're back to square one again. Edit: just spotted it's discontinued so you might be in luck and get a credit note instead

It's not me. The shop are making soothing noises[1], which is nice. A replacement "similar" might be a good thing, it would cut their loss and hopefully result in something that is reasonably waterproof.

So a "floating" liner is easier to damage? I wouldn't expect so much symetrical leakage. Manufacturing issue?

Re longevity. I wonder whether removing the "warm liner" is liable to cause issue (again, not sure that's applicable to this one).

It's just nice to discuss what's expected and how long things should last. I am not sure that expense is a good indicator of ongoing waterproofness, bearing in mind that cheap plastic "outdoor" stuff is waterproof.


1) "I can confirm that a Weise jacket has 2 years of warranty so we can accept this back as a warranty claim"


Last edited by Riejufixing on 12:45 - 15 Oct 2019; edited 1 time in total
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 12:43 - 15 Oct 2019    Post subject: Re: Longevity and waterproof expectations of jackets. Reply with quote

flea-rider wrote:
the fabric will always get wet .. if you have washed the liner with soap powder it will get wet and leak ..if you have put the liner near a hot radiator it's fecked ..there thousands of little hole in basically plastic heat will melt them soap will block and absorb
I have a Weise but the liner is part of the jacket wash it twice a yr with tex wash from nikwax .. after a soaking it will almost dry over night

It's never been washed, it has had very light use.

How warm does a "waterproof" liner have to get to be damaged, I wonder? I saw this:

https://mag.sportsbikeshop.co.uk/advice/how-to-wash-textile-motorcycle-clothing/

!
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 13:21 - 15 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
It's not me. The shop are making soothing noises[1], which is nice. A replacement "similar" might be a good thing, it would cut their loss and hopefully result in something that is reasonably waterproof.

So a "floating" liner is easier to damage? I wouldn't expect so much symetrical leakage. Manufacturing issue?

Re longevity. I wonder whether removing the "warm liner" is liable to cause issue (again, not sure that's applicable to this one).

It's just nice to discuss what's expected and how long things should last. I am not sure that expense is a good indicator of ongoing waterproofness, bearing in mind that cheap plastic "outdoor" stuff is waterproof.


1) "I can confirm that a Weise jacket has 2 years of warranty so we can accept this back as a warranty claim"


I'd agree about the symmetry of the leakage; likely to be untaped seams. But if the liner gets damaged, it's likely to be where it can get abraded easily, elbows and shoulders tend to get hit by the hand as you put your arms through the sleeves as they're the corners inside the sleeves. Watches, rings, nails (nail extensions? won't judge . . .) etc. could all easily tear a fragile waterproof lining. Laminated waterproof materials are less likely to snag and probably will have a fabric drop liner instead which it doesn't matter (and probably not even noticeable) if it gets snagged. In the case of this jacket, the warm liner probably would protect the waterproof liner, but if it's badly designed in the first place, e.g. non-taped seams, it'll always leak.

All but the very cheapest waterproof fabrics tend to be reasonably waterproof; the two factors that can (not always) change with price are design (better designs will be more waterproof due to seam waterproofness, abrasion resistance, cuff design, stormflaps over the zips etc.) and breathability. The latter shouldn't be underestimated either; a bin-bag is fantastically waterproof and if you wore one and taped up the sleeves/neck with gaffer tape pretty much nothing would get in . . . or out, so you'd be soaked with sweat in a very short time.

I've been battling with waterproofs for decades for my mountaineering kit, so I've come into motorcycle gear with a bit of knowledge which is handy. The conditions they endure are surprisingly similar; I frequently encounter wind-driven rain and snow with 50mph winds in the hills, which can get much stronger in some places where it gets funnelled through rocks etc., the difference is the priority with mountaineering kit is light weight and breathability, as opposed to abrasion resistance.
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SirFallalot
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PostPosted: 13:34 - 15 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kentol750 wrote:
We've all been lured into the 4 season jacket type thing. A good leather and some flexible oilskins are much better. Army waterproofs over a decent jacket worked 20 years ago on a fireblade, why not now?

Fuck trends and cool, if I have to wear gear 24/7 it needs to work 24/7.


After trying some things out, I've just gotten waterproof overs which works better than any reasonably priced gear. My winter textile jacket leaks at the inner arms, £30 on ebay Embarassed, but is torrential proof all over. My leather trousers only leaked at the knees because of the flexy thingy, and got me a wet bum too, but dried quick, so I got textiles to match the jacket, they are damp the next day, bum not as wet but still damp, not much better. I think if I'm not cold when the temps drop I'll sell my winter gear on and just keep leather.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 19:41 - 15 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

ColinK98 wrote:
given the spray that gets kicked up on the motor way.
the only choice for not having to wear wet clothes is to carry spare dry clothes.


I never have these problems on my 4 hour drive to South Wales wearing Goretex and using a Tucano apron and muffs so the question is what are you using?
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DJP
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PostPosted: 21:43 - 15 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I rate Weise clothing.

I owned a Weise Dynastar II for about 5 years before it started to leak and I owned the equivalent previous model for a similar time before that.

Maybe they've gone downhill since then, but I wouldn't expect anything to leak after 10 months.
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