Hardtail Converstions... why?

[Easy-X]

I've been following a series on YouTube with a guy who does Bullet hardtail conversions. He's just moved onto a BSA...

Fascinating stuff watching the process but no one's ever mentioned in the videos: why?

Lose some weight and lose some comfort. Surely not as simple as that?!
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[Triton Thrasher]

It makes no sense; don’t worry about it.

Rigids are awful to ride.
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Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[stinkwheel]

Very direct riding experience outweighed by haemarrhoids.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Bhud]

It's funny - I've been looking into hardtails myself.

You can get the bike to sit very low, which, depending on the type of bike, can look a lot cooler than with shocks. It's the original form of motorcycle, because originally, all bikes were hardtails. The WW2 BMW R75s are all hardtails, and mechanical works of art. Urals kept that rugged look going for decades afterwards. In most other cases, it was made obsolete by manufacturers moving to rear shocks.

In the case of my currently-in-the-pipeline project, it's (potentially) also a way to deal with a galvanically corroded swingarm pivot bolt which just won't come out no matter what. This is because any bike can be hardtailed by replacing the rear shocks with struts, although the more usual way is to fit an extended welded-on rear frame.

There are mixed reviews on how hardtails ride. In general, people say they ride poorly. Quite a few people say they're really awful to ride, and cause back injuries. A minority say they can be sort of OK, as long as you push down on the pegs and lift off the seat as soon as you see a bump. Very early classic bikes (such as 1930s Indians) had a very carefully sprung (forward and back) and large, very soft, seat, to make up for the rough ride. They also had long rubber stretchy "reins" attached to the end of the handlebars, to let the front end wallow over rough terrain. The idea was probably to let the bike wander and waft around beneath you as you went down a dirt track (roads were bad) in a straight line at about 30-40mph.

[Polarbear]

It was a big thing with Harleys and other chopped bikes in the 70's/80's but we were hard as nails back then. (or too young for piles )

As shown by the film Easyrider where both bikes were hard tails. Maybe they made some sense in the US The thing was it was copied religiously by chop builders over here.

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/media/2016/06/15/NJGroup/AsburyPark/636016017005608148-Easy-Rider-image-01.jpg?width=1080&quality=50
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[Easy-X]

I'm starting to appreciate the beauty of them - something to be said for the simplicity of construction.

However, the closest I've come to "hardtails" is mountain bikes and you never want to go back once you've had a go on a decent rear suspension system, a saddle can only do so much!
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[Teflon-Mike]

A lot 'old' bikes from before the 1950's had no rear suspension, cops it was easier & cheaper to build that way and before the Girling gas/oil damper, suspension was crude anyways.

These 'old' bikes were the earliest candidates for chopperisation, in the 1950's, cos old, old fashioned and cheap, hence the 'easy-rider' look given to cruisers.

As an aside, the chopper fashion, starting in the USA, started most often with poor unsuspecting Triumphs, BSA's and Enfields etc. as Brit-Bikes were exported over the pond by the bucket-load to help get in $-Cash top repay the war-debt, and UK manufacturers that exported to the US got exemptions on the rationing/ministry of supply restrictions that dogged other industries. Treated with more than a little disdain in the US by existing bike shops, rather like chinky 125's have been here for the last 2 decades; US owners struggled for support to keep these 'imports' running, they looked at UK DI|Y mags.

In the UK the sport of 'Trials' was popular, as the tarmac machine spread tar on most, then un-made gravel or dirt tracks, and 'pool' 2* petrol limited the scope for engine tuning for both factories and amateurs alike. With the lets get together club mentality left behind by WWII and the ideals of consumerism spreading, Motorcycle 'trials' was, like car rallying, an 'every-man motor-sport, the average chap in the street could have a crack at. All you needed was an old army surplus dispatcher bike, strip off the heavy pannier rack, and when they got bent, replace the steel mudguards with some aluminium hammered from a bit of Lancaster bomber wing littering some-one's paddock, and you were on your way to making, a 'Trials Chop', as in a bike for trials with all the unnecessary bits 'chopped off'.

Significant bit is, that as the tarmac spread, the 'roads' used for trials events started to a) dissapear and b) get tamed; leading to the vogue for 'pocket trials' held on short technical sections on folks farms and stuff. This lead to the separation of the sport into what is now 'Enduro', an off-road 'race' and 'observed-section' trials, that is more like the modern sport, at walking pace over obstacles.

But, the 'CHOP'; came about as folk trying to make a standard road bike more competent on the rough started to cut the frames to shorten the wheelbase and steepen the steering angle to make them more nimble 'off-road'.

This was what was described in the magazines that crossed the Atlantic, where the 'mericans did the same thing, but backwards, stretching frames and raking fork-angles to make the high-way cruiser of Easy-Rider renown, and the term 'Chopper' got switched from the builder, who 'choppped' bikes for sport, to the bike itself.

HARD TAILS! The chopper vogue was still fairly strong in the 1970's and 80's, but as a style icon rather than sporting device. Customesers of that era were much more likely to try 'porting' a Japanese two-stroke for more speed, and/or doing something devious like fit a Metamachek swimg arm and mazzoci shocks, or just stick the usually pretty decent Niponese engine from a crashed and bent CB900 or Z1 into a fancy 'Kit' frame like a Harris, Spondon, or Bimota... the 'hard tail' became the tool of the die-hard hells angel type, who could make their own 'rigid' frame in their garage from scaffold pole with a gas-axe, and the virtues of simplicity offered opportunity fore a more successful DIY build.

The expedient of using solid-struts to replace` clapped out twin-shocks, was then a low rent way to go rigid and go 'chopper', on the cheap, and post `1990's UK restrictions on registration and approval, was, and still is, an expedient to create a suspensionless 'chopper', without cutting the actual frame, and running into the SVA restrictions to get a number-plate.

So ways and ways-about... hard-tail, as in no rear suspension, could some, as standard, from old bikes built before practicable hydraulic dampers, or could be from solid strutting a standard twin-shock road bike, OR from constructing a totally rigid replacement frame, with more or less cost/MOT/SVA vexations, but usually to ape US inspired 'Cruiser' looks, rather than for any performance benefit, most hard tail customs shun for that 'look'.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[WD Forte]

I reckon thats why they put weeny little fuel tanks on them
so you dont have to/cant ride them far
to give yer farmer giles some relief
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bikers smell of wee

[DUCAUDI]

Is a hardtail another term for a bobber?

[ThatDippyTwat]

From a build point of view, hardtails are easier to build. Fewer components mean less cost and complexity than pissing about with rear suspension. You can, if you're good, make a decent frame with rear suspension not look hugely out of place sat next to a hardtail, but it'll cost more and take longer.

It's purely an image thing now and has been since the 70's, there are no practical pro's, and they make your kidneys cry. I certainly struggled to do more than ride one 12 miles to deliver it for a mate who's laid up. Looked lovely, but I was very happy to get on the GL1000 he'd PX'd against the chop and ride that back.

Hardtail is the term for a frame without rear suspension, Bobber is an overall style or aesthetic. A bobber can be a hardtail or a softtail.
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'98 VFR800 (touring) - '12 VFR800 Crosrunner (Commuting) - '01 KDX220 (Big Green Antisocial Machine)

[Teflon-Mike]

[doggone]

Solid rear can actually handle better than bouncy old shocks, you don't have it for comfort though.

[Easy-X]

Hmm, interesting. I could see some advantage with slow, technical stuff but if you're gonna grab air at any point I'd want all the suspension I can get
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[iooi]

[Teflon-Mike]

[Teflon-Mike]

I DO wonder though, where all-up, their bum would have an easier time on something with less suspension, and a seat that spread the load a bit, and absorbed some shocks, rather than taking air on a g-string hoping that a white power will save the piles occasionally!
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[steve the grease]

[stinkwheel]

I always thought of a "bobber" as being a hardtail custom/chop WITHOUT raked out/over-standard forks.

Why a bobber? Pull on the brake/wind off the throttle and find out.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.