|
Author |
Message |
Easy-X |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Easy-X Super Spammer
Joined: 08 Mar 2019 Karma :
|
Posted: 12:17 - 27 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
|
|
Wow! So what you're saying is that killing all the injuns was a good thing as it lead to re-forestation So all we need to do now is go on a genocidal killing spree in South America and we can sort out Climate Change
I've really learnt something today, thanx! ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Suntan Sid |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Suntan Sid World Chat Champion
Joined: 07 May 2009 Karma :
|
Posted: 12:28 - 27 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
|
|
Assuming you believe that CO2 emissions are adversely affecting the climate.
Between them, China, USA, India and Russia produce more than half of all worldwide CO2 emissions.
Over the last three decades only Russia have managed to reduce their CO2 emissions, the other three have managed to increase their CO2 emissions, over the same time period.
Until China, USA and India decide to take action, the rest of the world is just pissing in the wind!
Foregoing your, ICE, motorcycle or car in the UK would amount to nothing more than an, empty, political sentiment! ____________________ "Everybody needs money, that's why they call it money!" |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Kris |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Kris World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Feb 2002 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
MarJay |
This post is not being displayed .
|
MarJay But it's British!
Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :
|
Posted: 13:32 - 27 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
|
|
Kris wrote: | https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2011/11/23/climategate-2-0-new-e-mails-rock-the-global-warming-debate/#622ca6f727ba
Anyway, to answer OP - no. |
Because a few scientists disagree with the consensus? Nah. As has been said plenty of times before it's not about the change in climate, but the rate of change which is fairly easily plottable from the most basic of data going back for hundreds of years.
It's all very well saying "Well India do X and the US do Y!" but if India jumped off a cliff would you do it? Seriously, it's a terrible argument. So we can't immediately take action and fix everything, but there's no point having a process if we can't start. So each change we make is incremental but it does make a difference.
I have recently changed my electricity tariff to a completely renewable one. I don't have any illusions that now my house will somehow be hooked up to a huge wind turbine, but I have some small confidence that the money I spend on electricity will in fact go towards renewable energy projects.
It's also fair to say that burning fossil fuels also produces other nasty side effects other than just CO2. Nitrous oxides can be nasty, sulfur dioxides, soot etc. So even if we do move away from CO2 emitting energy over time, and we make renewables work, and THEN we find out climate change is all nonsense, will we still have a net positive? You bet. ____________________ British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another. |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Polarbear |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Polarbear Super Spammer
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Karma :
|
Posted: 14:12 - 27 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
|
|
Suntan Sid wrote: | Assuming you believe that CO2 emissions are adversely affecting the climate.
Between them, China, USA, India and Russia produce more than half of all worldwide CO2 emissions.
Over the last three decades only Russia have managed to reduce their CO2 emissions, the other three have managed to increase their CO2 emissions, over the same time period.
Until China, USA and India decide to take action, the rest of the world is just pissing in the wind!
Foregoing your, ICE, motorcycle or car in the UK would amount to nothing more than an, empty, political sentiment! |
Exactly right and India and China are going to do very little while they have billions to feed and keep happy.
Too many people and thats not going to change.
In Britain we might be doing our bit to get greener but we are still building houses on green field sites because we haven't got enough. Green field rules have been torn up just to facilitate this. In MK the Parks Trust have been told to hand over leisure sites to the council for development. Our green and pleasant land isn't quite as green and pleasant as it was.
But hey, we are going electric ____________________ Triumph Trophy Launch Edition |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Kris |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Kris World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Feb 2002 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
MarJay |
This post is not being displayed .
|
MarJay But it's British!
Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
chickenstrip |
This post is not being displayed .
|
chickenstrip Super Spammer
Joined: 06 Dec 2013 Karma :
|
Posted: 14:52 - 27 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
|
|
It's so sad that politics has now crept in to the General Bike Chat forum
Is nothing sacred?! ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Robby |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Robby Dirty Old Man
Joined: 16 May 2002 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Bhud |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Bhud World Chat Champion
Joined: 11 Oct 2018 Karma :
|
Posted: 21:37 - 27 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
|
|
Imagine a motocross park out "in the middle of nowhere". Except there's no such thing as nowhere - it's a place. There is demand for housing as the population keeps growing. A developer recognises this, and decides to build a residential rabbit warren right next to the motocross park. His architect uses lively pastel colours, places his 3D models of buildings at angles to each other, making nice curvy streets, etc. with just one goal in mind: make as many individual properties as possible within a space. It looks good on paper. The walls on these properties are ultra-thin. The windows are reduced in size. Even the doors and door frames are "compact".
The developer likes it. The profit he anticipates on one unit sale is twice as much as he sets aside for his "foreign aid" budget. Foreign aid? Well, language is an interesting thing. New words enter into popular parlance all the time. Such as "maisonette", for example. In this case, local councillors are greatly "aided" by a fully paid-for trip to a property developers' convention for a week, in Marseilles. They will be truly dazzled ("dazzled" - that's another good one) by what they see and experience there. They will surely appreciate a little taste of the good stuff, all the better to understand and promote the "vision for the future" they (oh sorry - I mean the developers) have for their town. One taste is never enough. Thereafter, they will virtuously proclaim the virtue of not having open recreational spaces, roads, etc.
The whole shebang is excellent value for money. It costs the developer a mere £30000 all-in. The way is clear and the design is approved. The big diesel trucks and heavy machinery had already come to town. The lousy old trees, oaks, alders, hawthorns, elms, rowans, beeches, etc. are quickly "cleared" (got to love that word). The councillors and the mayor appear for a photo opportunity in the local paper as they plant a new copper beech sapling within the new development. The developer's enterprise is a big success. He builds it and people quickly snap up the new properties. One of the area's unique selling points is that it has 2 good schools in it. Therefore young couples take on as much debt as they can muster, and move into these properties and produce more kids. They don't even care about the motocross track next door. It's an entry-level property. A way to get on the magical property ladder to Beaconsfield. Except, of course, hardly anyone gets from that position to Beaconsfield. Their only hope is that their children might. Vicarious living is a psychological mainstay of people who have no life. What they really get in their rabbit hutch is a 50-60 hour work week. During which, of course, they need to sleep, to keep this dream of the endless hamster wheel alive.
Then, sooner rather than later, someone who feels rather put-upon has a conversation with someone else. Its real meaning (not couched in mensch-speak) would go like this:
"We're all in it together, aren't we. We're moving forward as a nation. Progress is always good, isn't it? We belong to something bigger than ourselves. The greater good depends on the principle that the will of the many should override the will of the few, and definitely of the one. The police are there to protect us, not to keep us in life. We have to believe that. Santa Claus is real. And won't someone do something about that noise and the smell of exhaust fumes from those bikes at the motocross track? I don't understand it at all. Don't they realise, my daughter Beata has asthma. I don't have any hobbies at all - I am more deserving than those people. We're all supposed to be working towards something I can't define or articulate. Obedience to the rat-race and the pointless, endless reproduction of my DNA is a way of life for me - I'll try my best to indoctrinate my children with this, and everyone else should follow it or else it threatens/undermines my narrative."
The above conversation is overheard by an old man. It plays on his mind because he was a young father once. Now his children are 16. He goes back home and is berated by his children who, amazingly, know everything about everything. They tell him off for everything he eats. They chide, steak is killing the planet, you boomer! Your plastic bags are choking dolphins, how dare you! The old man is upset. His children are the world to him. He gives up a lot of things. Goes back to his garage and there's his old Triumph. One thing that kept him going and brings him back to carefree, joyful days. Days when "freedom" was oxygen. Of course, he realises, that was all wrongthink now. He is truly penitent. His children would tell him, 2+2=5, and his love for them would have him accept it on his knees. However, there's always that (guilty?) element of doubt. Why?
In about 2 weeks, the motocross track gets closed. Guess what happens to it? Yes, the owner sold it to Mr Barratt. Mr Barratt, of course, isn't a man. He's a legal personality owned by multinational billionaire investment companies that pay no tax anywhere. Throwing down a few peanuts for the monkeys, of course.
In answer to the OP, the answer is NO. |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Freddyfruitba... |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Freddyfruitba... World Chat Champion
Joined: 20 May 2016 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Undinist |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Undinist Nearly there...
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Polarbear |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Polarbear Super Spammer
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Karma :
|
Posted: 22:23 - 27 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
|
|
The only way something will happen that is big enough to make a difference is to have a world government not answerable to the people.
While we are made up of bickering nations whose leaders have to try and keep the people relatively happy they are never going to do enough to change anything. FFS Brazil is still burning the Amazon rain forest despite everyone and the ships cat knowing what the potential outcome will be.
In UK it's like the Severn barrage project. It would give us huge amounts of clean electricity but no government will start it because a) the cost is so big many other things would have to be sacrificed to do it and b) the eco warriors would go mad about the lost ecology if it went ahead.
Even a totalitarian state like China could not implement population controls, what hope places like India.
The only way is a government that doesn't care what the people think or want. A government that will do what it thinks is best and sod the people. A bit like the EU ____________________ Triumph Trophy Launch Edition |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha |
This post is not being displayed .
|
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha World Chat Champion
Joined: 22 Nov 2012 Karma :
|
Posted: 10:54 - 28 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
|
|
Peer-reviewed research is far from infallible. Thinking people should at the very least regard it as potentially flawed, and must not internalise the notion that their own knowledge and expertise is necessarily beneath it. The academic community can be insular and arrogant. I don't advocate knee-jerk cynicism but I definitely think a measure of informed scepticism is healthy. ____________________ "Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."
Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125 |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
MarJay |
This post is not being displayed .
|
MarJay But it's British!
Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :
|
Posted: 11:36 - 28 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
|
|
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote: |
Peer-reviewed research is far from infallible. Thinking people should at the very least regard it as potentially flawed, and must not internalise the notion that their own knowledge and expertise is necessarily beneath it. The academic community can be insular and arrogant. I don't advocate knee-jerk cynicism but I definitely think a measure of informed scepticism is healthy. |
It's not one peer reviewed study though.
18 organisations in the US alone have studies and statements that support climate change. Thats in one of the most politically sensitive and climate change deny-y countries in the world.
There's this idea that Scientists are insular. Perhaps Scientists are insular because they try to explain their results to people from non scientific backgrounds and then those results get rejected? The majority of people don't have the scientific backing to understand the ramifications of the results. Saying that experts don't know everything is ridiculous. There are probably some politically motivated scientists, but to have a consensus on this level? It's unprecedented, even for some 'settled' scientific ideas.
It's like saying "I don't need a lawyer to represent me at my murder trial, pah lawyers don't know everything." Nobody knows everything, but experts in their areas are just that, experts in that area. Unless you too are an expert in that area, it's hard to argue that you can see flaws in what they are saying, especially with this level of consensus.
I think people do understand the ramifications of what is happening, and I think it's almost too horrifying to contemplate, so they comfort themselves with the idea that the consensus is wrong. People should not comfort themselves to the point where they bury their heads in the sand. ____________________ British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another. |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
MarJay |
This post is not being displayed .
|
MarJay But it's British!
Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :
|
Posted: 11:47 - 28 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
|
|
chickenstrip wrote: | It's so sad that politics has now crept in to the General Bike Chat forum
Is nothing sacred?! |
Chickenstrip, I did expect better from you - although obviously it's hard to gauge the level of flippancy in your comment. The only people who make climate change about politics are those who choose to deny it for their own ends. Climate change is about science, nothing more. Quite a large proportion of senior climate change deniers in the US believe that God won't let the climate change, so it's all ok. If you believe that, then IMO you have issues. A lot of them invest in coal, oil and other CO2 emitting industries, so it's purely about keeping their financial status quo. Although, at this point some of them are so rich, does it really make a difference?
Also massive irony to the phrase 'is nothing sacred?'. Let me tell you what SHOULD be sacred. The only place in the entire universe that can support and sustain humanity. If that's not sacred, then nothing is. And I am now quite angry at myself for saying that, as I sound like a hippy, but it is nevertheless true. ____________________ British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another. |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
LustyLew |
This post is not being displayed .
|
LustyLew World Chat Champion
Joined: 19 Apr 2004 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
doggone |
This post is not being displayed .
|
doggone World Chat Champion
Joined: 20 May 2004 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Kris |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Kris World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Feb 2002 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Easy-X |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Easy-X Super Spammer
Joined: 08 Mar 2019 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha |
This post is not being displayed .
|
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha World Chat Champion
Joined: 22 Nov 2012 Karma :
|
Posted: 14:05 - 28 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
|
|
MarJay wrote: | People should not comfort themselves to the point where they bury their heads in the sand. |
It felt to me that this is exactly what I was saying. It's strange how these discussions flip around so quickly.
As unpalatable and irrational as it'll sound, I sometimes think its very possible to accept science as a religion (I thought it was funny that you capitalised the "s" in science - like xtians use an uppercase "g" for god), and to treat its findings as necessarily sacrosanct.
PArt of what I'm saying is that complacency and head-burying can happen in all contexts. Yes, of course, the scientific method should be underpinned by curiosity, rationality, consistency, and so on. And, yes, those all do seem to require the opposite of burying heads in the sand. But if you read stuff like Ludwik Fleck, Michael Polanyi, Thomas Kuhn - even or perhaps especially, Paul Feyeraband), it's very apparent that science *can* become ossified.
I'm not sure I'd go so far as to actually suggest this, but it seems eminently possible to me that science is at its healthiest when degrees of consensus are comparatively low - not high. For in those phases, scientists must continuously confront the possibility that their empirical evidence is not necessarily final - and they'll be more rigorous in all their scientific work because they know and expect their peers to be scrutinising their findings very diligently. Why? Because its more likely that A.N. Other scientist will have a different - perhaps even competing - view, and will be more rigorous when considering their peers' findings.
The ironic implication of that does appear to be that once a field of scientific inquiry acquires high levels of consensus, it may have begun to bury its head in the sand. Am I saying that's what's happening now, with respect to the work around climate change? No I don't think I'd quite go that far. But I do sometimes think there's the spectre of a new orthodoxy that mightn't necessarily give rise to the most helpful set of solutions.
For instance, I sometimes think that electric vehicles are simply passing the problem up the chain, when there's insufficient development in power generation. I also wonder if clearing the decks of old vehicles will involve ripping more ore out of the planet, smelting it in toxic ways, and creating more problems than if we simply welded up the old crap (a la Cuba) and carried on along those lines - being frugal, making do and mending. As opposed to scrapping, burying, and shouting 'in with the new' when there's no proper infrastructure preceding it. But, having said that, and as was mentioned in a post further up the page, in the short-term we've got cities full of particulates that're shortening the lives of everyone living there.
On balance, I'll concede that knee-jerk cynicism and resultant outright rejection of climate change is at best unintelligent and at worst, dangerous. But I won't venerate science to the point where I think normal, thinking people shouldn't treat its conclusions with a degree of scepticism. It's the best we've got - but that doesn't make it infallible. Fuck me, it doesn't even mean it's necessarily that good. Perhaps the best you could say for it is it's the least bad. ____________________ "Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."
Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125 |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
chickenstrip |
This post is not being displayed .
|
chickenstrip Super Spammer
Joined: 06 Dec 2013 Karma :
|
Posted: 14:17 - 28 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
|
|
MarJay wrote: | chickenstrip wrote: | It's so sad that politics has now crept in to the General Bike Chat forum
Is nothing sacred?! |
Chickenstrip, I did expect better from you - although obviously it's hard to gauge the level of flippancy in your comment. |
It wasn't climate change I was commenting on. It was your dragging in of the Brexit vs EU debate.
Btw, be careful about what you expect from me ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Kris |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Kris World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Feb 2002 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
chickenstrip |
This post is not being displayed .
|
chickenstrip Super Spammer
Joined: 06 Dec 2013 Karma :
|
Posted: 14:54 - 28 Nov 2019 Post subject: |
|
|
I'm a nobody. I have little influence one way or another on all these big issues. I'm too old and dyed-in-the-wool, not to mention battered and broken, to change.
So you lot go ahead and worry about climate change. You might have noticed I've made little to no input in this discussion here or elsewhere. To me, it's something for governments to worry about. If they say I can't ride my ICE motorcycle anymore, so be it. I'm just glad I got to have the fun I did with them. But I'm not going to get into heated (geddit? ) arguments about this stuff. I've got more pressing and personal problems to worry about. ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
MarJay |
This post is not being displayed .
|
MarJay But it's British!
Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :
|
|
Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 4 years, 153 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
|
|
|