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Kawasaki ER5 mis-firing how to change HT leads on the coils?

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daws0n
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PostPosted: 17:35 - 30 Nov 2019    Post subject: Kawasaki ER5 mis-firing how to change HT leads on the coils? Reply with quote

I'm trying to diagnose a mis-fire on the right hand cylinder on my ER5, it's been running rich for a while and has got to the point where the bike isn't working well at all.

I've changed the spark plugs (both filthy black) and plug caps, and checked the coil's ohm resistance readings on both sides... All checks out OK according to Haynes manual.

The HT leads don't look damaged but I'd like to replace anyway just to rule them out as a point of failure. I've picked up a couple of lengths, and the new cable screws onto the spark plug caps as expected. On the coil side getting a firm connection is not so obvious...

I've unscrewed the small plastic cap that secures it to the coil and original cable just dropped out. There is no bare wire exposed on the cable side, but I can just about see a small screw in the barrel (but it's not enough to grip). See photo 2 here to see what I mean

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ER5-Ignition-Coils-Genuine-Kawasaki-2001-2006-640/193203842086

Any advice would be much appreciated!

Thanks
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:16 - 30 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about you just swap over the coils and leads over to the opposite side and see if the problem moves with it?
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



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PostPosted: 18:38 - 30 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

From memory it screws on with an olive like a water pipe fitting. The little screw is a spike to go up the middle of the cable to make contact.

Have a look inside that screw-on cap, there should be a little rubber grommet type thing that you slide onto the cable between the the coil and the cap then screw the cap down on top of it. It's probably stuck to the inside of the cap or still on the old cable or the coil itself
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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daws0n
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PostPosted: 19:13 - 30 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Nobby
The lead on the coils has a moulded "U" shape kink which would make swapping them over to opposite sides difficult. The replacement lead is very flexible in comparison.

@stinkwheel
Ah yes after pulling the cap back I can see exactly what you mean.... It's stuck on tight though and doesn't want to budge. Are they usually removable?


A bit more history:

Around 3 months ago I installed some after market coils and replaced the plugs, all was OK for a short while but the coils packed in after a couple of months of use. So instead I bought second hand genuine KPA03 coils online and the bike ran much better for a few weeks. I figured problem was solved (fuel economy and performance both restored) then it starting misfiring again Thursday morning. I'm concerned that the problem must be elsewhere.... Just figured HT leads are cheap and swapping them is worth a try.

I need a reliable machine for work so I'm off to view a CB500 tomorrow... However I've sunk a fair few quid into my old er5 this year (engine valve clearance, carburettor service / re-balance, new fuel tap) so I really want to get to the bottom of this issue if I can. It's getting on now (2002, 30,000 miles) but it's an ideal winter hack if nothing else.

Sometimes it will start nicely and other days it takes 4-5 seconds on the starter button for it to fire up. It's not dropped the right hand cylinder completely, but something isn't right at all. Once started, by the time the left hand exhaust pipe heats up hot to touch the right hand one is barely warm.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



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PostPosted: 23:21 - 30 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't say I ever actually changed one so I don't know if it's moulded on or not, I have had them apart.

Check the coils are making a good earth connection with the frame and their bracket, corrosion under here is a known issue with all those 500 twins.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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daws0n
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PostPosted: 10:49 - 01 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a good point, I've had the bike apart many a times this week but I've not paid much attention to earth connections around the coils.

I'll give the metal stands off and bolts a good clean this morning when I'm swapping the coils over. Do you recommend checking anything else whilst the tank is off?
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



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PostPosted: 11:58 - 01 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

daws0n wrote:


I'll give the metal stands off and bolts a good clean this morning when I'm swapping the coils over. Do you recommend checking anything else whilst the tank is off?


A good look over the wiring for any rubbing/chafing that could have damaged the insulation. Especially where it could be trapped under the tank/panels. You can even give the wiring a wipe down with a cloth and WD40. If you see any bits of PVC tape that clearly didn't come from the factory, it's worth having a look under them for evidence of bodged repairs.

Also not a bad idea to pull apart and clean any connector blocks you come across. A visual inspection for corrosion and physically clean any very bad terminals with a fine needle file. I usually just give them a good spray with WD40, push them together and apart a few times then give them a final spray with dielectric silicone grease before final reassembly. Don't worry if you don't have any of the grease though, that's more "icing on the cake"
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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daws0n
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PostPosted: 12:11 - 01 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sound advice, nice one fella Cool

I'm going to have another go at it now, then off to check out a CB500 this afternoon. It looks like a similar bike size wise and is a much newer machine (2016).

Being an all weather rider I've always gone for for cheaper older bikes, not so much heart ache when the road salt and winter riding gets to them... If I can get my er5 running well again I think I'll keep it as a winter hack. It's not a bad commuter when it works!
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daws0n
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PostPosted: 14:20 - 01 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swapped coils around and surfaces and stand offs, but sadly the fault remains....
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



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PostPosted: 20:33 - 01 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

daws0n wrote:
Swapped coils around and surfaces and stand offs, but sadly the fault remains....


So did the fault move with the coil?

If not, I think they are a wasted spark on those bikes. As far as I can see, they have a single pulse coil which means the spark is not "handed", both should spark together. Try swapping the plug caps over (as in, take them off the sparkplug and put them on the other side sparkplug) to eliminate a wiring or IC igniter fault. If the fault still stays on the same side, it's not an electrical problem.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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daws0n
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PostPosted: 22:22 - 01 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Problem remained on the right hand side. Bike started OK but as soon as I pulled off the drive way I could tell it wasn't going to run right, struggled with with an upward climb and as soon as I got on the main road fuel started to explode in the exhaust. When I opened the throttle wide the bike momentarily regained power, but only for a few seconds. When I got it back home I revved it a few times in neutral and a small puff of black smoke came out of the exhaust. The left hand cylinder was hot to touch but right hand was barely warm.

In other news, I am now the proud owner of a Honda CB500F Very Happy Size wise it's similar to the er5, but the power delivery and handling are very different. It's done <4k dry miles and is in excellent condition, too nice really to used in the winter...

I'm determined to get the er5 back up but at least now the pressure is off for commuting duties. I'll try swapping the plug caps over next weekend... A local garage has also offered to lend me a CDI box from a broken er5, could be worth swapping that over as well?
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Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



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PostPosted: 22:40 - 01 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Assuming that you've checked for sparks the electrical side isn't the issue.
____________________
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050
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daws0n
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PostPosted: 10:03 - 02 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

The carburettor has been stripped and serviced this year and the valve clearance adjusted recently whilst it was being looked at in garage. Could it be engine related?
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



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PostPosted: 14:23 - 02 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might be time to do a compression test.

Could still be carbs. The poor running but picking up on wide-open throttle thing sounds suspicious. There are "power jets" in the carbs on those bikes. I've had them block before and they are a total sod to clear. They leave a big hole in the carburettion that doesn't clear until you're fully on the main jet (about 8,000rpm+).

You can see the power jets as little holes round the edge of the airbox side of the carburettor, facing backwards. They are fixed, and can't be removed for cleaning, just a case of lots of flushes through with solvent and compressed air.

I wonder, did they check the carb diaphragms when the carbs were serviced?

Might be worth checking the float height in case the needle valve is sticking. The ones on my old KLE did this (virtually the same engine). They got corrosion on the sides of them that was making them stick in the seat.

That's reasonably simple, just put a bit of clear hose on the float bowl drain, run it up alongside the carb and crack open the screw. Put the fuel tap on prime or turn the engine over a few times. The level of fuel in the pipe is the float height. It should be roughly level with the joint on the float bowl (workshop manual will have a prescise measurement). It could potentially be either way too low or way too high if the needle is stuck.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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