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| garth |
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garth
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| Polarbear |
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Polarbear
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 Posted: 16:31 - 05 Dec 2019  Post subject: |
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1001 London moped muggers can't be wrong 
In seriousness, while I know jack sh1t about the latest offerings, a maxi scoot has got to be the best commuter ever. Weather protection, auto box, storage and a decent enough turn of speed.
Can't really see a down side.
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| WreckTangle |
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WreckTangle
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| stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel
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| The Shaggy D.A. |
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The Shaggy D.A.
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| Posted: 18:49 - 05 Dec 2019 Post subject: |
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I've heard the Burgman 400 being referred to as the Ford Escort Van of the bike world. I fancy something like that.
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| The Shaggy D.A. |
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The Shaggy D.A.
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| MarJay |
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MarJay
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MarJay
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| garth |
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garth
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MarJay
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 20:44 - 05 Dec 2019 Post subject: |
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| garth wrote: | A car is out of the question really because of the traffic, which can be horrific. I have a van that does 40mpg if really needed. |
Then repeat the question.
A bike can legally go no faster on UK roads than a car may, it's only 'notional' advantage is filtering through gaps in ques of traffioc, cars wont fit in.
'Filtering' is legal, but decidedly 'iffy'; cars hace a habbit of weaving into the gaps to knock bikers off, without looking, 'cos, they dont expect anything to be in that gap, and they dont really expect or look for bikes; they tend to open doors on you and stuff like that too, and legally its an over-taking manouver, you are guilty until proven innocent in... Ergo, you will not really save any time on a commute taking a bike over a car.... unless you take more risks with it.. and just getting on a bike ramps the risks at the very begging....
NOW, work aint much fun. If it was there'd be a turnstile on the door not a clock-in machine, and you'd be paying them for the fun, rather than t'other ways about... so WHY should getting to and from be expected to be much fun? You want fun, go to a theme park or a massage parlour... no SMIDSY's included!
Which brings us back-around, and re-asking the question; WHY, commute on two wheels? Whether a conventional bike, or one of these funny things with elastic band transmission....
You don't save much time if any, you just ramp the risks; it don't often save much if any money, on all in balance sheet, so just WHY do it?
Worse why kid yourself it 'Must' be in some-way 'better' to pays that money and take them chances, when, in all probability, those pluses are at best marginal, if not mythical.
A 35minute commute... hmm.. mostly duelies and motorways.. so what's that? 20 miiles 'ish'?
That's about how far I used to commute, and it was 50/50 IF, by the time I had togged up and togged off, I actually got from my bathroom to my desk, any sooner taking the bike, and all them risks, especially in the city, to NOT actually get much 'fun' from it, than I did sat in a tin-box, warm, and dry, not needing to change cloths, listening to the radio...
Like I said ask the question over, because in so many cases the answer arrived at is by emotional reasoning not logical.
FWIW; NOT commuting by bike, not just taking the now 'optional' 'Plus commuting' cover off the insurance policy, but dumping the bike policy altogether, effectively bought be a rot-box estate car for the daily grind; while not forking out for new tyres, tax or other consumables released the funds for me to go get my 'Fun' biking at the week-end in trials; Similar switches have offered financial and 'fun' rewards to many others whether that's a 'track-day' ZX6R or a Competition Enduro bike or whatever....
BUT the point is ask the question over, and ask yourself, truthfully' what you 'think' you might be getting for it, and then what you really could get for it, and at what cost and or risk.
I have to say, that a two-wheeled 'car' the shape of a maxi-scooter, or in fact ANY scooter, doesn't really appeal to me much, and I don't care really how economical they may be or practical they might be presumed.... its a compromise, which I think in oh-so-many cases a big chunk of the advantage is likely just self delusion, and IF the traffic is that bad.. well, what are the train times, and how much more risk are you taking travelling at that hour, when you could probably save as much or more time, than you might by taking a LOT of risks on a bike in the snarl, JUST by getting up and leaving 20-minutes earlier, and having a cup of coffee before you start....
Like I said, ask the question again, and try and be ultra honest in your evaluation. It may be that you would still 'prefer' to commute by bike... b-u-t, recognise that as the preference it is, and don't kid yourself on the superficial 'benefits'.. in which case... as a preference that's probably NOT saving you much is any time or money.... would you really want a Maxi-Scoot? Pick what you would like to ride... and live with the costs/compromises of that decision.
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| The Shaggy D.A. |
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The Shaggy D.A.
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| garth |
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garth
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| Ayrton |
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Ayrton
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| Shaft |
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Shaft
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| Posted: 00:14 - 06 Dec 2019 Post subject: |
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| garth wrote: |
Commuting in and out of Bournemouth in a car is a no-goer. Could take me 45 mins one day, 1h45 the next.
It's a temporary problem, fun doesn't come into it. |
I have a similar problem, but my commute is Kent into London, so 1:45 is pretty normal in a car.
My solution was the FJS600 and I did it through gritted teeth - it did seem like a practical idea, but it wasn't really a bike.
Brilliant, best fun I've had on two wheels in ages!
Two things I will say against it:
1. The fuel consumption does drop dramatically at speed, because the weather protection is excellent, but it's about as aerodynamic as Anne Hathaway's cottage, so it's fine up to 65/70, but push it up to 80/90 and you can almost watch the fuel gauge falling.
2. Because it's a bit longer and wider than smaller scoots, I will get murdered by hotshots on 125s in really heavy filtering situations; it's fine on dual cabbageways, when you're just lane splitting, but in tighter, more nadgery conditions, a tiddler wins in the nimble stakes.
I haven't tried messing about with the gearing to solve the first problem (can't get around the barn door fairing anyway) and I'm happy to live with the second, because at high speed the extra wheelbase and weight just makes it feel a lot more stable.
I would definitely recommend you give it a go, you might be as pleasantly surprised as me.
I did do a lot of research when I bought mine and the FJS does seem to be about the best of the bunch at that price point, with the Burgervan a close second - Piaggios seem a bit fragile and the T-Max is too expensive and not so good at weather protection.
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| stevo as b4 |
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stevo as b4
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| Posted: 01:06 - 06 Dec 2019 Post subject: |
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I know I've asked this before and I barely understand at all, but does anyone vitally need a 50-60bhp auto scooter to get to work and how and when is it better than Marjay's VFR800 or similar for the same job?
Is it just personal choice and preference or are there situations where a big powerful scooter is better or faster than a big powerful bike?
Also are there any times where these long wheelbase low C of G scooters are a huge advantage as opposed to a hindrance? I don't expect that anyone needs the kind of acceleration in their commute that risks flipping a non electronically neutered 1000cc sports bike, so where do these long low scooters have the chance to shine if they can't filter through the tight gaps due to length and wheelbase?
Would a drag bike be as good as a T-max in city traffic?
Oh and I know you get 14 or 15" wheels on some of these big high powered maxi scooters, but don't they start getting unstable at 90-100mph in cross winds on the motorway if anyone rides that fast on the way to work that is?
Is commuting very much a personal preference choice, as I've seen people riding everything from C90's, MZ250's, small twist and go's, all types of 125's, to big cruisers and maxi scooters, all the way up to Sports bikes, adventure bikes, and huge engined uneconomical bikes like ZZR1400's or H2R's. They can't all be the best or ideal tool for the job can they?
I'd just like to know the definitive answer, as for example G has always said that a 1000cc sports bike is by far away the best machine for city centre commuting, and if this is the case then why do people use less suitable machinery unless its for the challenge or the pursuit of individualism? |
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| myvision |
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myvision
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| barrkel |
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barrkel
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| Posted: 11:31 - 06 Dec 2019 Post subject: |
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| stevo as b4 wrote: | I know I've asked this before and I barely understand at all, but does anyone vitally need a 50-60bhp auto scooter to get to work and how and when is it better than Marjay's VFR800 or similar for the same job? |
It's not a need; it's a trade-off. On a motorway, a VFR is arguably better than a scooter without a screen and apron, but add a tall screen and apron and the scooter is far better in wet weather. 50bhp over 30bhp scooters will just give you more umph to get into the outer lane, both will do 80mph. If you want to speed excessively the VFR would still be a better option.
| Quote: | Is it just personal choice and preference or are there situations where a big powerful scooter is better or faster than a big powerful bike? |
Very tight multi-lane traffic where you need to make tight turns between vehicles to make progress. Auto transmission relieves some strain on your clutch hand. Upright sitting position means more comfort at lower speeds. With a tight turning circle, that can be made even tighter due to lower centre of gravity (so you can physically lean the bike into the turn without any fear of dropping it), you seldom need multi-point turns to switch lanes in standstill traffic.
| Quote: | Also are there any times where these long wheelbase low C of G scooters are a huge advantage as opposed to a hindrance? |
Yes, slow (walking speed) tight turns. Still not as good as a shorter wheelbase low CoG scooter.
| Quote: | long low scooters have the chance to shine if they can't filter through the tight gaps due to length and wheelbase? |
I had a loaner of a Burgman and I didn't like it; I thought it handled like a boat compared to my SH300. I think they make more sense if there's more motorway in your commute. I commute on my Hornet now (though I appreciate the traction control on the S1000R in this weather), not on a scooter, but I would be on a scooter if I was confident I wasn't going to get bike-jacked again.
| Quote: | Would a drag bike be as good as a T-max in city traffic? |
Almost certainly not.
| Quote: | Oh and I know you get 14 or 15" wheels on some of these big high powered maxi scooters, but don't they start getting unstable at 90-100mph in cross winds on the motorway if anyone rides that fast on the way to work that is? |
Rear weight bias - if you put something heavy into a top-box - is the easiest way to get instability, weavy oscillations aren't damped as well. IMO the better a bike is for getting through traffic, the more unstable it'll be at high speed. Steeper steering head angle means more agility and more instability.
| Quote: | I'd just like to know the definitive answer, as for example G has always said that a 1000cc sports bike is by far away the best machine for city centre commuting |
Depending on the roads, it might be. If the filtering gaps can take the narrow sportsbike, and you don't need to swap lanes, and there are open bits of road - usually between bunches of traffic from lights - you'll get ahead. If it's tighter and you need to swap direction, a scooter can get through more gaps. The sportsbike does mean more leaning on the handlebars, more clutching, etc. There is no definitive answer.
A not very slow scooter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jojf3Ci2H3A
| Quote: | why do people use less suitable machinery unless its for the challenge or the pursuit of individualism? |
I think it's about the mix of conditions on your route, what you find comfortable or uncomfortable, etc.
Commuting by scooter is very relaxing, to me. Commuting on the S1000R encourages a lot of acceleration. Commuting on the Hornet varies; I have to rev the nuts off it to make it interesting, it's not as good in heavy traffic as a scooter, it's not as safe as the S1000R if I rode both of them at the same speed (but I don't).
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BTTD
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| andyscooter |
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andyscooter
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 4 years, 139 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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