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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
Joined: 08 Mar 2019 Karma :
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Posted: 12:20 - 04 Feb 2020 Post subject: 2035 ban on petrol and diesel [blank] |
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Every story I read uses "vehicle" "car" "van" almost interchangeably. Like there are only 4-wheel vehicles on the road Even some of the motorcycle press are confused as to whether the ban affects 2-wheeled vehicles.
Apparently some study in Belgium reckons that if only 10% of the cars in a city were replaced by scooters and bikes pollution would drop by 40% just down to better traffic flow.
Here's hoping for pragmatism over ideology ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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Nobby the Bastard |
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Nobby the Bastard Harley Gaydar
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linuxyeti |
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linuxyeti World Chat Champion
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Posted: 13:33 - 04 Feb 2020 Post subject: |
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My only surprise is that they've only brought it forward to 2035 not 2030, oh, and that they've finally included hybrids at last. To be fair it's largely academic, in 15 years time there will be relatively few fossil fueled vehicles still sold anyhow, with or without a ban. Also, at somepoint we will hit a tipping point, at which it will be economically unviable for traditional 'petrol' stations to trade, as the demand for fossil fuels won't be a sustainable level, thus hastening the demise of fossil fueled vehicles.
Personally, though, I think setting a cut off date, could be counter productive, and as the time gets closer, the number of 'older' more polluting cars will remain on the road, as the value of 2nd cars drop, making it less of a financial incentive to buy new and trade up. ____________________ Beware what photos you upload, or link to on here, especially if you have family members on them
Last edited by linuxyeti on 13:36 - 04 Feb 2020; edited 1 time in total |
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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Posted: 13:43 - 04 Feb 2020 Post subject: |
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linuxyeti wrote: | My only surprise is that they've only brought it forward to 2035 not 2030, oh, and that they've finally included hybrids at last. To be fair it's largely academic, in 15 years time there will be relatively few fossil fueled vehicles still sold anyhow, with or without a ban. Also, at somepoint we will hit a tipping point, at which it will be economically unviable for traditional 'petrol' stations to trade, as the demand for fossil fuels won't be a sustainable level, thus hastening the demise of fossil fueled vehicles.
Personally, though, I think setting a cut off date, could be counter productive, and as the time gets closer, the number of 'older' more polluting cars will remain on the road, as the value of 2nd cars drop, making it less of a financial incentive to buy new and trade up. |
I'm not convinced and neither is the car buying public yet.
Electric car sales UK: 2019 sees 144% rise in demand.
Sounds wonderful, until you read the next sentence....
Strong electric car sales in December drives total market share up to 1.6% for 2019
But while I'm still not convinced, whatever will be will be etc. If I'm still moving around outside a care home by 2035 I'll be more worried about fuel for my boat. You can't plug in where there are no plugs. ____________________ Triumph Trophy Launch Edition |
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linuxyeti |
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linuxyeti World Chat Champion
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Posted: 14:05 - 04 Feb 2020 Post subject: |
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Polarbear wrote: |
I'm not convinced and neither is the car buying public yet.
Electric car sales UK: 2019 sees 144% rise in demand.
Sounds wonderful, until you read the next sentence....
Strong electric car sales in December drives total market share up to 1.6% for 2019
But while I'm still not convinced, whatever will be will be etc. If I'm still moving around outside a care home by 2035 I'll be more worried about fuel for my boat. You can't plug in where there are no plugs. |
Yes, and those figures are on, what is still currently a small range of vehicles, the number of electric vehicles from differing manufacturers are on the increase. The missus has gone for a hybrid this time, in 3 years time, it will almost be guaranteed to be electric, likewise, when I chenge my car in 2 to 3 years time or so, it will be for electric. Even electric bikes are getting close enough to having the range I need to get to and from the office on a single charge (~130 miles, now that the office has moved to a different part of Leicester, motorway mainly). Personally I'll be keeping an eye on the MG ZS EV, test driven one already, and it's a lovely car to drive, much nicer than the Leaf and Zoe, I've already driven. ____________________ Beware what photos you upload, or link to on here, especially if you have family members on them |
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ThunderGuts |
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ThunderGuts World Chat Champion
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Riejufixing |
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Riejufixing World Chat Champion
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SpeedyCBR1100 |
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SpeedyCBR1100 Borekit Bruiser
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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linuxyeti |
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linuxyeti World Chat Champion
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Posted: 14:38 - 04 Feb 2020 Post subject: |
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Riejufixing wrote: | According to the Committee on Climate Change's "Net Zero Technical Report", the sale of new motorbikes using fossil fuel is in line to be banned after 2035. |
Yes, we know, but as I said it's a mute point, even if motorbikes were given an exception, there won't be enough petrol stations left to get petrol at over time. There aren't enough petrol motorbikes alone to make petro stations a commercially viable proposition. So, whilst Harley owners will be ok, anybody who actually has a bike to use, will have to go electric ____________________ Beware what photos you upload, or link to on here, especially if you have family members on them |
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linuxyeti |
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linuxyeti World Chat Champion
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Posted: 14:40 - 04 Feb 2020 Post subject: |
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SpeedyCBR1100 wrote: | I live on a road on which very few houses have their own parking. A consequence of that is that few people can park outside their own houses, indeed latecomers are forced to park up to 400 yards away.
In these circumstances, how do people charge their cars? Do they have to leave home for work early and try to get a charge at a local garage, the nearest of which is over 2 miles away?
I've often thought that electric vehicles are not the answer. If we could solve the problems of hydrogen storage, creating a viable fuel cell, then we'd be using the most plentiful element in the universe. Current garages could be exchange points and the waste products would primarily be water, water vapor and a small amount of nitrogen oxides.
Would the government be able to tax air we breath? |
Plenty of time for on street charging stations, already quite a few popping up in this area, not to mention, supermarkets etc. ____________________ Beware what photos you upload, or link to on here, especially if you have family members on them |
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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linuxyeti |
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linuxyeti World Chat Champion
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Posted: 14:49 - 04 Feb 2020 Post subject: |
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Easy-X wrote: | I take it then we officially don't know? (Whether bikes are included in the cut-off.)
What I find disappointing is the lack of simple strategy. "WE MUST GO ELECTRIC!!!" why? Hydrogen? Natural Gas? Better exhaust systems. Loads of life left in ICE if we could be botherd.
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Even hydrogen fuel exhaust, predominently water vapour, has a climate warming effect, just doesn't persist as long as carbon, none of the other choices you mention are renewable or low emission.
Easy-X wrote: |
"WE MUST GO ELECTRIC!!!" why not go for a light touch like heading off the pointless trend in large SUVs that never go off road and just waste fuel.
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Doesn't really make that much difference really.
Easy-X wrote: |
"WE MUST GO ELECTRIC!!!" and this will solve all the parking issue in cities? If anything it'll be much, much worse as with even the best will in the world you can't have charging points for every road side bay or multistory space.
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In cities why would you need to? the vast majority of users wouldn't use up in single charge in a week, let alone a day.
Easy-X wrote: |
Hey! Here's an idea: encourage people to ride bikes that take up what? a quarter of the parking space of a car? Parking problems solved, pollution problems solved, more productivity as people get to work easier...
People crying about problems that could have been headed off 50 years ago with merely a change in emphasis about road transport. (And without even getting into decent public transport!) |
Encourage all you like, however, there are too many who are genuinely scared of 2 wheel commuting, and, then, you only have to look on here, a forum specifically for riders? How many on here, won't ride because, well, you can't possibly ride between October & March, or, those who constantly moan about it being cold and won't ride at the first hint of frost, never mind rain and snow, or even wind.. ____________________ Beware what photos you upload, or link to on here, especially if you have family members on them |
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BTTD |
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BTTD World Chat Champion
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Ribenapigeon |
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Ribenapigeon Super Spammer
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Posted: 16:25 - 04 Feb 2020 Post subject: |
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What?! Are you saying electric isn't the solution to all of our problems?
Blasphemy! Burn* the heretic!!!
*Fuck! no that won't work
Blasphemy! Drown* the witch!!!
*If someone could just check the CO2 emissions from drowning that would be super helpful, thanx ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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Riejufixing |
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Riejufixing World Chat Champion
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ThunderGuts |
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ThunderGuts World Chat Champion
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Posted: 16:45 - 04 Feb 2020 Post subject: |
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Hydrogen may well be plentiful, but extracting it into a useful source is a whole other ball game. It takes more energy to convert the most typical source of hydrogen, water, than the energy you get back from burning it (unsurprising). That's without taking into account the mechanism of actually capturing the energy from the hydrogen again.
The key to efficiency is to make as few changes of energy as possible from source to application; with a hydrogen car, you're probably looking at (assuming wind power as a starting point);
Mechanical (wind turning turbine) > Electrical > Hydrogen (production) > Electricity (and waste heat from the fuel cell) > Mechanical (propelling the car)
On every change you lose energy, there's no way around that. If you could make electric cars work, and batteries efficient, you can take out two energy change steps - it's got to be better as a life cycle of a "tank" of energy, but in terms of the end user, they won't necessarily see these benefits and there are still range and infrastructure problems to deal with . . .
The true solution is to maximise the efficiency of energy transfer from source to propelling the vehicle, but there's some serious tech development needed to get there. Alternatively if we can harness nuclear fusion there's arguably so much available energy we don't have to worry about the losses ____________________ TG. |
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Riejufixing |
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Riejufixing World Chat Champion
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Posted: 16:54 - 04 Feb 2020 Post subject: |
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linuxyeti wrote: | Riejufixing wrote: | According to the Committee on Climate Change's "Net Zero Technical Report", the sale of new motorbikes using fossil fuel is in line to be banned after 2035. |
Yes, we know, but as I said it's a mute point, even if motorbikes were given an exception, there won't be enough petrol stations left to get petrol at over time. There aren't enough petrol motorbikes alone to make petro stations a commercially viable proposition. So, whilst Harley owners will be ok, anybody who actually has a bike to use, will have to go electric |
Using the "we" construct doesn't help any arguments you might want to make.
Motorbikes won't be excepted unless there's a change from the government's current position.
The same thing will, I expect, happen to filling stations in general as happened to "filling stations selling leaded petrol" in the past. They will disappear. That will leave people who want to run "old stuff" a problem to be resolved. At the moment, it seems you can store 275 litres of petrol at home, IF you have suitable storage, AND you must notify someone, hang on.... yes, the "Petroleum Enforcing Authority" for your area (in my case it's the environmental health dept of the council). If you want to store more you have to have a licence from them.
So I think it will be deliveries as per central heating fuel in future. No idea what the exact process and other considerations will actually turn out to be, though. |
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Riejufixing |
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Riejufixing World Chat Champion
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Bhud |
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Bhud World Chat Champion
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Posted: 17:48 - 04 Feb 2020 Post subject: |
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The counter-congestion argument for bikes, and the resulting reduction in atmospheric pollution, never seems to gain traction, no matter how well supported by clear scientific evidence these arguments may be. This may have something to do with this:
European Commission wrote: |
In the World Report, the World Health Organisation and World Bank have advised that care should be taken to avoid the adoption of policies which could encourage the growth of motorized two-wheeler traffic by giving advantages to motorized two-wheeler users. |
https://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/specialist/knowledge/vehicle/safety_design_needs/motorcycles_en
This policy could also be the main driving force behind increasingly stringest DVSA testing standards (disincentivising, for example, CBT and DAS trainees). I tried to point this out on DVSA's recent blog post where they said they were coming down hard on rogue CBT instructors, but, as of right now, moderation has not allowed my comment to be posted there. It does make you wonder...
I've nothing to do with the DVSA or DVLA, but I joined their mailing lists, and get pestered regularly for photos and horror stories from "my" MOT station (I don't have one - I've nothing to do with it) so that these govt depts can post them on their blog to justify increasingly authoritarian and arbitrary regulations and enforcement. As we all know, safety or the environment does seem to be the default go-to justifications given for curtailing the culture of private transport we have. But these govt organisations have to stretch things quite a bit, censor a bit here and there, and they take care to never mention an overarching global policy with "common purpose" in their consultations with the public. All that we know for sure at this point is, they have taken away choice and control, and what people want and the influence of market choices has no place in this grand plan. |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 4 years, 83 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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