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MCN
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PostPosted: 17:00 - 26 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

You will not encourage prisoners to work for their keep when they know the alternative is to sit in their cell and do Hee-haw.

It would require very clever psychological methods to achieve any result and the investment of resources required would make the profit less than the costs.

Breaking rocks is as unskilled as it gets but anyone who isn't interested can sit on his/her Arse.

For punishment to work it has to hurt. There are too many in jail who cannot be hurt that way.
They don't care.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 17:15 - 26 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
You will not encourage prisoners to work for their keep when they know the alternative is to sit in their cell and do Hee-haw.

It would require very clever psychological methods to achieve any result and the investment of resources required would make the profit less than the costs.

Breaking rocks is as unskilled as it gets but anyone who isn't interested can sit on his/her Arse.

For punishment to work it has to hurt. There are too many in jail who cannot be hurt that way.
They don't care.


I think you underestimate just how perversely the mind of offenders can be.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 17:44 - 26 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
MCN wrote:
You will not encourage prisoners to work for their keep when they know the alternative is to sit in their cell and do Hee-haw.

It would require very clever psychological methods to achieve any result and the investment of resources required would make the profit less than the costs.

Breaking rocks is as unskilled as it gets but anyone who isn't interested can sit on his/her Arse.

For punishment to work it has to hurt. There are too many in jail who cannot be hurt that way.
They don't care.


I think you underestimate just how perversely the mind of offenders can be.


You think wrong. Smile

Those who suggest a prison could be a place to get work done are blowing smoke up their own bahooke.

Probably most are in jail coz they choose to not work and thieve instead. Smile
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 18:49 - 26 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive worked in social service for years and tgese kind of "get the cat'o nibe tails out" threads bore me.
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 19:01 - 26 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dunno about that.

Personally I think it's been too long since we last had a "get the cat'o nine tails out" thread Twisted Evil
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Ste
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PostPosted: 19:08 - 26 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Does community service count as forced labour?
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MCN
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PostPosted: 20:04 - 26 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
Ive worked in social service for years and tgese kind of "get the cat'o nibe tails out" threads bore me.


I don't know if your answer was in response to wot I rote.

I know folk in UK jails.

There are very few in there for stealing apples from the neighbours tree.

Hard bastarts.
The kind of people who do not care.

Considering that many offenders are dealt with outside of jail. Only the nutters (or more serious ones get banged up).

If I was in jail and they told me you get time off if you cooperated with garden work etc then I'd be a good worker.
But I'm not the sort of personality that end up in jail.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 00:30 - 27 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
If I was in jail and they told me you get time off if you cooperated with garden work etc then I'd be a good worker.
But I'm not the sort of personality that end up in jail.


I asked my mate: are there any "normal" people inside? "Yeah, there was this estate agent who got a bit pissed up and got in a fight. Landed a lucky punch and the guy went down and cracked his head on the kerb. He's alright..." Shocked

They say smart people don't get caught but the reality is that the smarter people weigh up the risk/reward of any endeavour and the choices that could spell a time inside fall by the wayside.

The irony is that a good chunk of crime takes an extreme amount of effort for very little reward. For example, crack dealers on the mean streets of Buffalo don't do all the kewl-shit in "The Wire" in their off time, they moonlight behind the counter at Wendy's 'cos the pay's not good enough from just dealing crack.
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 10:56 - 03 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
Ive worked in social service for years and tgese kind of "get the cat'o nibe tails out" threads bore me.


Okay, what do you propose?
Maybe we sit down with them and ask them what’s troubling them?
Maybe we should send them away at the weekend on activities, maybe rock climbing, canoeing, spa retreats?
How about giving them more benefits so they’re less likely to steal? Rolling Eyes
Maybe they should be exempt from having to have a license, MOT, or insurance if they steal a car or bike cos the poor little poppets can’t afford those things that us privileged ones buy all the time.
How about giving them and thier family a bigger better house rent free to stop them feeling socially inadequate, and of course it needs to be furnished for them Thumbs Up
How about vouchers for all the most popular takeaway outlets for them?

No! Fugg em! They are thieves, scummy bullies, and violent c*nts!
Send them to prison and make it a horrible place to be, make it nasty and they won’t want to go back. Breaking rocks in the hot sun, oh yeh Thumbs Up

In Pepperami’s world , violent offenders would receive the cat’o nine tails , and the birch and fugging sight more.
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piazza
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PostPosted: 10:59 - 03 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I heard on some news site that theyre trying to introduce a no prison rule for under 25's because young peoples brains arent fully developed.

As for half the stuff peppers wrote, they started that shit when I was a kid - obviously after I got out of borstal Laughing
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 11:15 - 03 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

piazza wrote:
I heard on some news site that theyre trying to introduce a no prison rule for under 25's because young peoples brains arent fully developed.

As for half the stuff peppers wrote, they started that shit when I was a kid - obviously after I got out of borstal Laughing


Hmmm? Interesting.
I was a lot lot younger than 25 when I knew right from wrong and I’d think it’s fair to say most people know what’s right from wrong a lot younger than 25 even with a brain that isn’t fully developed?

I’ll bet the old school borstal wasn’t one of the most pleasant experiences of your life?..... would you want to go back to that?
What about if the regime was even harsher?, I mean Russian Golag style harsh.
It might make theft and violence less attractive if being caught meant Golag style punishment?
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piazza
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PostPosted: 12:38 - 03 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

It wasnt that bad tbh, 4 squares a day, pool table and table tennis table. We had a tv room too. After about 4 months I had my own room Laughing

I met some right mentalists in there tho Shocked
Glue sniffing was rife..first week in some guy climbed on the roof with a pot of glue and stayed there for hours. His face was covered in glue and kinda burnt when they finally dragged hi down. This was a regular thing..

I spent a year in there before being let out again to attend my last year of school.

And we had worksquad in the morning and school in the afternoon, or vice versa your choice. I worked with a joiner, and a smashing old man he was too Thumbs Up
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 16:44 - 03 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

It won't be long before criminals are treated as 10 year olds if they 'have a mental age of 10'.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 17:02 - 03 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

What if they are transgender prisoners? Do they get a softy regime in a woman's prison instead of being Bubbas boy?

I mean, surely it's against their human rights to be forced into a mens prison when they identify as Danny la rue or Dame Edna.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 17:42 - 03 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Possibly, a psychological assessment might be worthwhile before deciding what kind of time someone does. Everyone is different, different people are likely to respond in different ways to any given regime.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 00:56 - 04 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

piazza wrote:
I heard on some news site that theyre trying to introduce a no prison rule for under 25's because young peoples brains arent fully developed.

So we'll end up with adults who've been getting away with escalating levels of criminality for years and who then feel righteous indignation when finally asked to atone.

There was a similar drive to allow women to avoid jail by playing the, "But I've got a babby, you Nazi!" card.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 01:23 - 04 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

The number of proper "bad in a biblical sense" people in prisons are very few. The question is: what do you do with all the rest? Obviously oversimplifying here but...

Paranoid Schizophrenics - fine if they take their pills regularly but a danger to themselves and others if left unsupervised.

Thick people - those not so much missing an education as incapable of retaining one. Maybe capable of supervised labour.

Addicts - perfectly fine if no temptation is laid before them...

We have a society that just about works for 80% of the members but for whatever reason 19%* just can't hack it Sad The solution seems to be either some sort of supervision, i.e. jail, or what? Culling? Gladiatorial Arenas?!

*the other 1% obviously have society work for them
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 08:59 - 04 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
jail, or what? Culling? Gladiatorial Arenas?!


Now see , I’ve always been opposed to capital punishment.
However an arena full of loonies , druggies , and dimbos fighting it out to the last man standing appeals to me Laughing

Sounds a bit like our Parliament in a funny peculiar sort of way Eh?
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 16:50 - 04 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the proportion who have society work for them is much greater than 1%.
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