|
|
| Author |
Message |
| chickenstrip |
This post is not being displayed .
|
chickenstrip
Super Spammer
Joined: 06 Dec 2013
Karma :  
|
 Posted: 23:02 - 03 May 2020  Post subject: |
 |
|
| Islander wrote: |
| chickenstrip wrote: | No, you said you weren't a fan of the idea of dark matter. The scientific community (the professional scientific community  ) have not dismissed it though. |
Some have. It's by no means a universally accepted theory.
I have an open mind on this but I don't like the whole dark energy thing, it sounds too much like a fudge. Modified Newtonian dynamics appeals to me more. I won't be upset if either or another theory not yet proposed turns out to be the right one though.  |
Exactly. It's an idea based on observable phenomena. Sooner or later, an idea is going to be (hopefully - not guaranteed) proven. Similarly with dark energy. Proposals have been made, but nothing is yet proven. And if and when it is, we may well be astonished. It may even wreck a few of our current ideas about what we think we know for a certainty.
Of course I use the term "we" loosely 
____________________
Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE!
Last edited by chickenstrip on 23:32 - 03 May 2020; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
   |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| hellkat |
This post is not being displayed .
|
hellkat
Super Spammer
Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma : 
|
Posted: 23:05 - 03 May 2020  Post subject: |
|
|
Thing is ... I *want* to be sensible and studious about it.
I want it to be empirically approved.
I've worked as an adjunct to STM for too long now to be able to just throw away references and proof of results.
But I genuinely believe that if its that vast out there, then there must be multitudes of dimensions that we simply cannot comprehend, and they might be a better way for us, if only we knew how to plug into them.
As said above, we don't know what we don't know.
Fuck it, I'm off for a bit of the fantastical realm on the inside of my brain pan.
Laters, science bitches.
____________________
Not nearly as interesting in real life. |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| chickenstrip |
This post is not being displayed .
|
chickenstrip
Super Spammer
Joined: 06 Dec 2013
Karma :
|
| Posted: 23:22 - 03 May 2020 Post subject: |
|
|
Oh, I don't absolutely believe there are advanced alien species who have built craft and travelled to the Earth, and we've seen their craft. I haven't seen anything first hand, and theories and ideas haven't been proven. But they haven't been proven one way or the other. Therefore, for me, the jury is out. But I don't dismiss the idea altogether, and certainly not on the basis of what we already know. The recent discoveries of thousands of exoplanets alone makes things seem a little more possible. I'm just saying, we shouldn't be too smug about those things we do know, saying "our task here is done".
Notwithstanding, it's sometimes fun to let the imagination run and speculate a bit, and sometimes it even leads to solid scientific discoveries. Besides, it beats arguing with certain people about politics day in and day out - that doesn't seem altogether rational to me
____________________
Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| chickenstrip |
This post is not being displayed .
|
chickenstrip
Super Spammer
Joined: 06 Dec 2013
Karma :
|
| Posted: 23:39 - 03 May 2020 Post subject: |
|
|
| Islander wrote: |
I have an open mind on this but I don't like the whole dark energy thing, it sounds too much like a fudge. Modified Newtonian dynamics appeals to me more. |
BTW; what kind of modifications do you have in mind? It seems to me that given the apparent discrepancies in the amount of matter required to cause the phenomena observed, they'd need to be quite drastic ones?
Edit: oops, definitely getting tired. Dark energy. Ok, so what would cause the expansion of the universe to speed up? What's your theory?
And dark matter - I thought there was no evidence that neutrinos could constitute anywhere near the kind of mass that would be required to explain what is seen?
____________________
Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE!
Last edited by chickenstrip on 23:54 - 03 May 2020; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| spottedtango |
This post is not being displayed .
|
spottedtango
Trackday Trickster
Joined: 04 Dec 2015
Karma : 
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Islander |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Islander
World Chat Champion
Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Karma : 
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Howling Terror |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Howling Terror
Super Spammer
Joined: 05 Dec 2008
Karma : 
|
| Posted: 01:37 - 04 May 2020 Post subject: |
|
|
Believing could be something to look forward to.
Even if it's death by alien bum probing rather than from maniacal leaders hellbent on f**king us over.
PS I have stockpiled lots of lube. 
____________________
Diabolical homemade music Bandcamp and Soundcloud
Singer songwriter, Artist and allround good bloke Listen to Andrew Susan Johnston here
The Harry Turner Project |
|
| Back to top |
 |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| hellkat |
This post is not being displayed .
|
hellkat
Super Spammer
Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| MarJay |
This post is not being displayed .
|
MarJay
But it's British!
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| chickenstrip |
This post is not being displayed .
|
chickenstrip
Super Spammer
Joined: 06 Dec 2013
Karma :
|
| Posted: 11:25 - 04 May 2020 Post subject: |
|
|
And of course, then there're the folks that believe we are living in a simulation (I'm not one of them, but who knows?). If that were the case, you could throw just about anything into the mix, however weird. But it seems to me that those folks who believe this are just looking for an alternative god.
@Islander, there has been no conclusive evidence to suggest that neutrinos would provide the necessary mass for the behaviour of, for e.g., galaxy formation. Suggestions seem to be they would provide no more than about 10% of the necessary, at most. But you haven't placed all your faith on this anyway, have you? Because you know there are likely vast gaps in your knowledge, as with the rest of us.
Varying gravity over distance? Seems to me to fly in the face of all we know about gravity (but I'm no astrophysicist). But then, it is an idea, just like aliens are currently, for us, an idea. It is no more strange to me that people would speculate over alien life forms and intergalactic travel than they would over variable gravity. If gravity is stranger than we currently know, what else might be?
@MarJay: secret tech. is something I mentioned earlier, and does seem more plausible, given what we know. Visiting aliens is not my conclusion - I haven't come to a conclusion, since I don't have enough evidence one way or the other. But what do we know? The universe consistently demonstrates that it is stranger and more complex than we imagined. And given that, it seems sensible to me to keep an open mind. The current backlash against 'experts' stems from the smugness of some in their ideas and theories, many of which aren't proven. I'd tend to listen to them more than a bunch of anonymous folks on the internet because they are usually intelligent, appropriately educated people, but they are also only human, with all the foibles of our species, and I have sometimes been surprised at some of the ideas some of them suggest along with their demonstrated expertise.
If we one day found out that aliens had indeed been visiting our planet, it would become a natural thing in our minds, including any weird and wonderful tech. they might have that we subsequently learned about. My outlook is don't be surprised about what surprises you. If the universe is as vast as we think it is, and that possibly just part of a multiverse with all the possible connotations that may have, we know nothing!
____________________
Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| MarJay |
This post is not being displayed .
|
MarJay
But it's British!
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Karma :
|
| Posted: 11:50 - 04 May 2020 Post subject: |
|
|
| chickenstrip wrote: |
But what do we know? The universe consistently demonstrates that it is stranger and more complex than we imagined. And given that, it seems sensible to me to keep an open mind. The current backlash against 'experts' stems from the smugness of some in their ideas and theories, many of which aren't proven. |
I'd love to believe that was true, but rationally it doesn't bear out.
Unproven theories. This is a doozy. So Gravity is a theory but nobody is leaping to try to disprove it. Same with Relativity, thermodynamics, atomic theory etc etc. The results you get are self evident, it's just that further down the line we might refine that theory to allow us to understand it better. Rarely are theories like this completely disproven. Normally just a level of detail is added.
I don't see many smug scientists. In fact, science is the one arena where people need to be contradicted, they need to have more evidence. The most smug people I see on TV tend to be economists or political experts with books that have just been released, and that's because they want to sell books.
Also, the Universe complexity thing... The universe can be explained by two or three relatively simple mathematical equations, and theoretical physicists have been working for years on unifying those. If the Universe could be explained by one mathematical model how does that make it more complex than we realised? It's not more or less complex than we realise, it's just our understanding that is limited. However, there are basic physical laws that physicists don't disagree on, and that minimal understanding can tell us quite a lot, and can inform as to what is probably not true as well as what is true.
One thing that those theories tell us is that interstellar travel is basically impossible. We might be wrong about that, but as explained in a Kids TV show I watched years ago "we've nearly got it right". It's not an aspect of science that is likely to be disproven. There might be some further refinement of those physical ideas and laws but I don't think aliens popping up from Zeta Reticuli is suddenly going to become a reality. Which is more realistic? Aliens travelling vast distances using unimaginable amounts of energy just to show themselves to tired pilots? Or humans with all their fallibility and bias believing they are seeing one thing when actually they are seeing something else?
There is an open mind, but then there is filling that gap with imagination rather than logic. That's what conspiracy theorists do, that's what anti vaxxers do, that's what climate change deniers do. There's no reason to believe that these things are even flying machines let alone flying machines of alien origin. Sure, it would probably be *nice* to believe that, but rationally? I really don't think so.
It's a bit like a lot of things in our recent history. There are things where it would be nice if they were true but the reality is otherwise. Such as climate change denial and certain other popular political ideas. It's human nature to believe what is comfortable to believe. Religion even explicitly states this with the idea of 'Faith'. You choose to believe there is a deity as there isn't any evidence for it, and rationally the universe is just a huge mathematical system which is indifferent to life. We're just here by chance, and there is no evidence that was even jump started by some conscious being, let alone our lives are being controlled.
Conspiracy theorists latch on to things because they want to have knowledge that others don't have. So in their case it's easier and nicer for them to believe crazy out there theories with no evidence than it is to accept what is most likely the truth. It's exhilarating, but it's brain chemistry, not rationality.
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another. |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| chickenstrip |
This post is not being displayed .
|
chickenstrip
Super Spammer
Joined: 06 Dec 2013
Karma :
|
| Posted: 12:16 - 04 May 2020 Post subject: |
|
|
Ok, I'm getting bored with this now
Just let me assure you I have nothing invested in the idea of visiting aliens, just as I have nothing invested in the idea of string theory, dark matter and energy, or even whether strawberry cheesecake is better than blackcurrant cheesecake.
____________________
Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| spottedtango |
This post is not being displayed .
|
spottedtango
Trackday Trickster
Joined: 04 Dec 2015
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| chickenstrip |
This post is not being displayed .
|
chickenstrip
Super Spammer
Joined: 06 Dec 2013
Karma :
|
Posted: 12:50 - 04 May 2020  Post subject: |
|
|
Aliens told me to abandon rationality and ride motorcycles for fun.
____________________
Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| bhinso |
This post is not being displayed .
|
bhinso
World Chat Champion
Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Karma :
|
| Posted: 16:18 - 04 May 2020 Post subject: |
|
|
First day of furlough.
Thank God for BCF science 
The discussion on page 1 about photos makes me wonder why we haven't seen pictures of the Apollo landers on the moon's surface. That would close that whole conspiracy theory
The universe is big. Far bigger than you might expect. I have to resurrect this old chestnut:
https://www.facebook.com/CollectiveEvolutionPage/videos/10154629625863908/
The scale STARTS at 2.2 lightyears, which is about 50,000 years worth of traveling for us.
If there are aliens capable of traveling vast distances, it is somewhat arrogant of us to think they'd visit us. There are plenty of other places for them to go 
The time travel argument is interesting, if you ignore the Grandfather paradox. The solution here is the many worlds theory, each time you make a decision the universe splits into two with both outcomes existing (credit to Red Dwarf where I first learnt of this).
Hence traveling into the past splits the universe, and if you kill your grandfather, it is a parallel version, so you would not be born in that version of reality.
Problem solved |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| chickenstrip |
This post is not being displayed .
|
chickenstrip
Super Spammer
Joined: 06 Dec 2013
Karma :
|
| Posted: 16:36 - 04 May 2020 Post subject: |
|
|
| bhinso wrote: |
If there are aliens capable of traveling vast distances, it is somewhat arrogant of us to think they'd visit us. There are plenty of other places for them to go |
Perhaps those places are even more overcrowded than Earth. Or maybe the beaches aren't as good.
____________________
Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Nobby the Bastard |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar
Joined: 16 Aug 2013
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| bhinso |
This post is not being displayed .
|
bhinso
World Chat Champion
Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Islander |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Islander
World Chat Champion
Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Islander |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Islander
World Chat Champion
Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| MarJay |
This post is not being displayed .
|
MarJay
But it's British!
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Islander |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Islander
World Chat Champion
Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Karma :
|
| Posted: 17:52 - 04 May 2020 Post subject: |
|
|
| chickenstrip wrote: | And of course, then there're the folks that believe we are living in a simulation (I'm not one of them, but who knows?). If that were the case, you could throw just about anything into the mix, however weird. But it seems to me that those folks who believe this are just looking for an alternative god. |
You'd be surprised how popular that theory is...
| chickenstrip wrote: | @Islander, there has been no conclusive evidence to suggest that neutrinos would provide the necessary mass for the behaviour of, for e.g., galaxy formation. Suggestions seem to be they would provide no more than about 10% of the necessary, at most. But you haven't placed all your faith on this anyway, have you? Because you know there are likely vast gaps in your knowledge, as with the rest of us.
Varying gravity over distance? Seems to me to fly in the face of all we know about gravity (but I'm no astrophysicist). But then, it is an idea, just like aliens are currently, for us, an idea. It is no more strange to me that people would speculate over alien life forms and intergalactic travel than they would over variable gravity. If gravity is stranger than we currently know, what else might be? |
Equally, there's been no evidence for dark matter despite increasingly sensitive detection equipment being developed and put into use.
One of the fun things about science is that you get these gaps in knowledge that people develop conflicting theories to explain. You look at them and decide which one sounds the most plausible and appeals but you also keep an open mind on the subject.
Gravity could easily be variable over large distances - we don't even know what gravity really is yet. Is it a force? Is it an effect of mass on space time? Is it in our universe or is it a strong force acting on us from an adjacent brane (M theory)? Is there a gauge boson for it (graviton)?
We only know about the effects in our local neighbourhood really - and other local neighbourhoods we observe and measure. How it applies across vast scales, well, we haven't got proof either way yet although LIGO may well eventually say its a cosmological constant after all.
Keeping an open mind it what it's all about in the long run.
| chickenstrip wrote: | @MarJay: secret tech. is something I mentioned earlier, and does seem more plausible, given what we know. Visiting aliens is not my conclusion - I haven't come to a conclusion, since I don't have enough evidence one way or the other. But what do we know? The universe consistently demonstrates that it is stranger and more complex than we imagined. And given that, it seems sensible to me to keep an open mind. The current backlash against 'experts' stems from the smugness of some in their ideas and theories, many of which aren't proven. I'd tend to listen to them more than a bunch of anonymous folks on the internet because they are usually intelligent, appropriately educated people, but they are also only human, with all the foibles of our species, and I have sometimes been surprised at some of the ideas some of them suggest along with their demonstrated expertise.
If we one day found out that aliens had indeed been visiting our planet, it would become a natural thing in our minds, including any weird and wonderful tech. they might have that we subsequently learned about. My outlook is don't be surprised about what surprises you. If the universe is as vast as we think it is, and that possibly just part of a multiverse with all the possible connotations that may have, we know nothing! |
Scientists are human. Some are scrupulous in their probity and some aren't and will lie and cheat to gain authority. Academic competition is pretty cut throat so human weakness is bound to appear from time to time. They usually get caught out though which is why peer review is such a good thing.
Alien visitations though? Nah. Rational explanation FTW. |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Islander |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Islander
World Chat Champion
Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Islander |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Islander
World Chat Champion
Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| chickenstrip |
This post is not being displayed .
|
chickenstrip
Super Spammer
Joined: 06 Dec 2013
Karma :
|
| Posted: 18:29 - 04 May 2020 Post subject: |
|
|
It killed the best part of the day for me. What's next?
____________________
Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 3 years, 347 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
 |
|
|
Help & FAQs
Search BCF
Members
Groups
Events Calendar
rating
rating