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Islander |
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Islander World Chat Champion
Joined: 05 Aug 2012 Karma :
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Posted: 11:37 - 22 May 2020 Post subject: NHS contact tracing app |
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Riejufixing |
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Riejufixing World Chat Champion
Joined: 24 Jun 2018 Karma :
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Posted: 12:28 - 22 May 2020 Post subject: Re: NHS contact tracing app |
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Ooh, touchy. Neither of the articles in El Reg you refer to is a security paper.
The only substance in the one from the 14th May is "Baw! It might get the IP address", plus a lot of whatiffery. The entire article from the 21st is whatiffery, plus a whinge that "GCHQ might be able to find the device again".
Well, if you know anything about GCHQ's modus operandii, you will laugh at that. Are you sure you're in IT security? |
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Islander |
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Islander World Chat Champion
Joined: 05 Aug 2012 Karma :
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Posted: 12:38 - 22 May 2020 Post subject: Re: NHS contact tracing app |
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Riejufixing wrote: |
Ooh, touchy. Neither of the articles in El Reg you refer to is a security paper.
The only substance in the one from the 14th May is "Baw! It might get the IP address", plus a lot of whatiffery. The entire article from the 21st is whatiffery, plus a whinge that "GCHQ might be able to find the device again".
Well, if you know anything about GCHQ's modus operandii, you will laugh at that. Are you sure you're in IT security? |
Information security if you please...
You've missed the point somewhat I suspect. You'll find security papers if you want to look for them but the overall issue is one of privacy. If you're not bothered, then fine - that's your choice. |
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Skudd |
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Skudd Super Spammer
Joined: 01 Oct 2006 Karma :
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Islander |
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Islander World Chat Champion
Joined: 05 Aug 2012 Karma :
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Im-a-Ridah |
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Im-a-Ridah World Chat Champion
Joined: 20 Oct 2006 Karma :
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Posted: 13:42 - 22 May 2020 Post subject: |
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Islander has a good point. We can say ok they are just trying to help prevent the spread of coronavirus, and that they have no intendion to misuse the powers or have any mission creep to create information and capabilities that they previously wanted but couldn't get. We can trust them because previously when they asked for powers they didn't do... oh, they did didn't they? And that's why its now an issue. They used up the benefit of the doubt last time. Actually a few times now.
RIPA Part 3
Encryption key disclosure law. Encryption rights and protection of written thoughts are an issue too, but worse is the removal of the right to not bear witness against yourself without which you can't really have a fair trial anymore.
They said: "Just to catch terrorists".
They did: Animals rights activists [who I don't like, but rights is rights]
Data Retention Act and previously DRIP etc
They said: "Just to catch terrorists".
They did permit:
The Pensions Regulator
The Insolvency Service
The Environment Agency
Department of Health
HM Revenue & Customs
NHS trusts and foundation trusts
Fire and rescue authorities
Food Standards Agency
and possibly worst of all
to browse through your internet data without a warrant.
And so now we can only reasonably assume that their intention is to misuse the app. |
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Kris |
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Kris World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Feb 2002 Karma :
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Riejufixing |
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Riejufixing World Chat Champion
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Islander |
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Islander World Chat Champion
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Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy World Chat Champion
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Riejufixing |
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Riejufixing World Chat Champion
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Riejufixing |
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Riejufixing World Chat Champion
Joined: 24 Jun 2018 Karma :
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Posted: 13:46 - 23 May 2020 Post subject: |
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Lord Percy wrote: | The app is voluntary and has no way of properly tracking or tracing anything at all, given that all it will take is for one person to malevolently click the "I have covid-19 symptoms" button and trigger a completely unnecessary overreaction in the area they live, with nearby users all being told "a person you have come into contact with has reported covid-19 symptoms".
Total waste of time and money. |
So when someone selects "I have symptoms", that's one thing. It could be a hoax, but most people won't do that, just as most people don't dial 999 for spurious reasons or throw clout nails all over the roads and motorways. There are also supposed to be mechanisms to detect and nullify false reporting. I have not spent time looking at the code yet, and probably won't, but I might look at a walkthrough. EDIT: Yes, the app documentation looks worth a read. Github.
Aloso, apart from "I have symptoms", there's "I have got the virus", which is not so easy for people to send falsely.
So it's a waste of time and money? Makes all those countries using it, and the independent efforts of companies producing free versions worldwide, look pretty stupid, then. All that money, scientific, medical and IT efforts contributed for nothing! What fools they must be, they should have looked on BCF and not bothered. |
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Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 Karma :
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Posted: 22:53 - 23 May 2020 Post subject: |
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Riejufixing wrote: |
So when someone selects "I have symptoms", that's one thing. It could be a hoax, but most people won't do that, just as most people don't dial 999 for spurious reasons or throw clout nails all over the roads and motorways. There are also supposed to be mechanisms to detect and nullify false reporting. I have not spent time looking at the code yet, and probably won't, but I might look at a walkthrough. EDIT: Yes, the app documentation looks worth a read. Github.
Aloso, apart from "I have symptoms", there's "I have got the virus", which is not so easy for people to send falsely.
So it's a waste of time and money? Makes all those countries using it, and the independent efforts of companies producing free versions worldwide, look pretty stupid, then. All that money, scientific, medical and IT efforts contributed for nothing! What fools they must be, they should have looked on BCF and not bothered. |
Your entire foundation seems to be one of 'faith'.
https://www.nhsx.nhs.uk/covid-19-response/nhs-covid-19-app/
Quote: | The app has been designed with privacy in mind. The app does not collect personally identifiable data from users. Users will always remain anonymous. |
Trolling the country by anonymously mashing the "I have symptoms" button every hour sounds like the kind of thing Ste would do on a Friday night, or every Friday night, just for giggles.
There's no way on earth that this thing can do its job properly. All I see here is a copycat attempt of China's tracing app(s), which worked because users don't care about anonymity, and they were probably forced to sign up using their ID cards (or passport if you're a foreigner). The fact that half the world are trying to do the same thing does not mean that any of them are doing the right thing... unless they go down the non-privacy route... and the fact that half the world are trying to do the same thing does not mean that the current wasted effort we're being presented with in the UK is something to sit back and be proud of. It sounds like a rubbish waste of time. A voluntary and anonymous rubbish waste of time. I'll eat my words if I have to, but I doubt I will. |
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Islander |
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Islander World Chat Champion
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Riejufixing |
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Riejufixing World Chat Champion
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Ste |
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Ste Not Work Safe
Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Islander |
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Islander World Chat Champion
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Posted: 15:04 - 24 May 2020 Post subject: |
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The postcode isn't a problem if you don't use the app
Actually the IP part isn't an issue for me as I'm behind CGNAT even when I'm not using a VPN but the principle remains.
The first three bullet points from the ICO site:
Understanding whether you are processing personal data is critical to understanding whether the GDPR applies to your activities.
Personal data is information that relates to an identified or identifiable individual.
What identifies an individual could be as simple as a name or a number or could include other identifiers such as an IP address or a cookie identifier, or other factors.
If you want to use it, crack on.
Stinkwheel has the real answer |
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Riejufixing |
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Riejufixing World Chat Champion
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Islander |
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Islander World Chat Champion
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Posted: 15:22 - 24 May 2020 Post subject: |
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha |
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha World Chat Champion
Joined: 22 Nov 2012 Karma :
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Posted: 15:46 - 24 May 2020 Post subject: |
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____________________ "Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."
Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125 |
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Kawasaki Jimbo |
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Kawasaki Jimbo World Chat Champion
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Riejufixing |
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Riejufixing World Chat Champion
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Kawasaki Jimbo |
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Kawasaki Jimbo World Chat Champion
Joined: 09 Oct 2015 Karma :
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Posted: 16:25 - 24 May 2020 Post subject: |
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So if I briefly pass within 1 metre of an infected person it's not a "hit" but if I'm within 5-10 metres for longer, it is? Upwind or down? |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 3 years, 362 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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