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Diggs
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PostPosted: 13:19 - 29 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
Diggs wrote:
The negotiations are taking place out of sight, and it is here that we will be endearing, as will the EU. We have to be to make progress.


Endearing? Really?!


Pointless being arses, surely?
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:19 - 29 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Are those the only two options available then?
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 13:30 - 29 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
Are those the only two options available then?


I suppose we could do 'bland'...

Diplomats have to get along though as they all eat in the same restaurants, visit the same prostitutes etc. They are by definition people who get along...
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MCN
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PostPosted: 14:16 - 29 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Diggs wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
Are those the only two options available then?


I suppose we could do 'bland'...

Diplomats have to get along though as they all eat in the same restaurants, visit the same prostitutes etc. They are by definition people who get along...


Wait..... I'd sort of imagined that since they expense everything to the taxpayer that they use the high-end knocking shops.
Usually it's free food and drink on there.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 14:25 - 29 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Diggs wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
Are those the only two options available then?


I suppose we could do 'bland'...


Your cup runneth over Laughing
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 16:17 - 29 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Diggs wrote:
Polarbear wrote:


As I have said all along, if the EU had been willing to allow a few small compromises - in our case border controls - We would never have left but the whole system that allows the EU to think it can ignore member states opinions was their downfall in our case.


I agree with this. Trouble was, increased border control was never going to be something the EU would agree to because it goes against the very essence of membership. I do wonder however if in hindsight, the EU wishes it had given a bit when Cameron made his half-arsed attempt to renegotiate the terms?

I can't imagine our COVID19 management failures and images of MaccyD containers full of poo endear us the Europe at the moment, so perhaps not?


Vague memories of certain things the UK could use to control borders, public safety was one, can't remember the other two I think it was. EU law itself have them. Blame the inept clowns tasked with putting it into UK statue. Much like the sharing of driver details of offenders between countries.

Edit -

"on grounds of public policy, public security or public health"
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 16:44 - 29 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Diggs wrote:
...visit the same prostitutes etc. They are by definition people who get along...


Who wants sloppy seconds?

After you....

No, after you...

I insist!

etc.

Is that international diplomacy in action?
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arry
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PostPosted: 18:58 - 29 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://youtu.be/e5TVLEaqqdI


Jonathan Pie is properly, properly angry on this one. He's always angry, but this time seems a lot, LOT more genuine.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 19:27 - 29 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
https://youtu.be/e5TVLEaqqdI


Jonathan Pie is properly, properly angry on this one. He's always angry, but this time seems a lot, LOT more genuine.


I might not agree with some of his stuff, but he always makes a very good argument for whatever case he is supporting or ripping intp.
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 21:37 - 29 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
I get the feeling the EU was gradually passing laws giving it more and more power. I'm not for a second equating this to the likes of Nazi Germany, but its how they started, purely democratic but slowly getting themselves more power.

The clincher for me was the Lisbon treaty in about 2012, giving more power to the EU. The news was all about the paddys voting No. Whereupon they just held the referendum again until they said Yes.

I pointed out to my father that I couldn't remember voting in this referendum, the response "That's because there was no referendum for Britain. Gordon Brown just signed it through on our behalf". Wait! What?
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 23:07 - 29 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
https://youtu.be/e5TVLEaqqdI


Jonathan Pie is properly, properly angry on this one. He's always angry, but this time seems a lot, LOT more genuine.
]

I think he's very wrong in this video.

Sure, the SJW woke brigade created something in the way that he's describing, but the sacking of Long-Bailey was caused by nothing other than a hard and incessant smear campaign against Corbyn's Labour.

The SJW woke brigade were not the ones screaming of antisemitism every day, it was the Daily Mail, the Sun etc and the right wing contingent of the chattering masses.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 23:34 - 29 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lord Percy wrote:
arry wrote:
https://youtu.be/e5TVLEaqqdI


Jonathan Pie is properly, properly angry on this one. He's always angry, but this time seems a lot, LOT more genuine.
]

I think he's very wrong in this video.

Sure, the SJW woke brigade created something in the way that he's describing, but the sacking of Long-Bailey was caused by nothing other than a hard and incessant smear campaign against Corbyn's Labour.

The SJW woke brigade were not the ones screaming of antisemitism every day, it was the Daily Mail, the Sun etc and the right wing contingent of the chattering masses.

Not for the first time you're coming at this from the point of view that your chosen political wing is under attack and you must defend no matter what. Israel's treatment of Palestinians is disgraceful but irrelevant in the context of George Floyd's death. Trying to implicate Jews globally was as cynical and wrong as any racism. A leading member of a political party came out in support of a tenuous link to Floyd's death when that party already, rightly or wrongly, had an unwelcome reputation for anti-Semitism. That member must either have a complete lack of self-awareness and political nous, or a deep-seated hatred, neither of which can be tolerated by a new leader charged with reversing the party's fortunes.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 00:56 - 30 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Labour and it's Dalliance with Religion.

This is from 2006 but should be regurgitated frequently until the Labour party reforms it's policies on support of the religion industries.

https://www.darwinwars.com/lunatic/liars/layfield.html
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 02:38 - 30 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
MCN wrote:
Labour and it's Dalliance with Religion.

This is from 2006 but should be regurgitated frequently until the Labour party reforms it's policies on support of the religion industries.

https://www.darwinwars.com/lunatic/liars/layfield.html


That's brilliant. Better than any novella I have read. The blocke should write for Jackanory.
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arry
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PostPosted: 08:13 - 30 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lord Percy wrote:

I think he's very wrong in this video.

Sure, the SJW woke brigade created something in the way that he's describing, but the sacking of Long-Bailey was caused by nothing other than a hard and incessant smear campaign against Corbyn's Labour.

The SJW woke brigade were not the ones screaming of antisemitism every day, it was the Daily Mail, the Sun etc and the right wing contingent of the chattering masses.


I don't think the reasons for L-B's sacking matter in the context; nor, really, does it matter that the Mail have painted them as Jew haters even if it's not true. They've been quite happy to damage people's lives for non-conformity and when it happens to one of their own, well it's coming home to roost isn't it.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 08:27 - 30 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
Lord Percy wrote:

I think he's very wrong in this video.

Sure, the SJW woke brigade created something in the way that he's describing, but the sacking of Long-Bailey was caused by nothing other than a hard and incessant smear campaign against Corbyn's Labour.

The SJW woke brigade were not the ones screaming of antisemitism every day, it was the Daily Mail, the Sun etc and the right wing contingent of the chattering masses.


I don't think the reasons for L-B's sacking matter in the context; nor, really, does it matter that the Mail have painted them as Jew haters even if it's not true. They've been quite happy to damage people's lives for non-conformity and when it happens to one of their own, well it's coming home to roost isn't it.


Totally agree. It's no different from that bloke with the White Lives Matter banner. Whether he was racist or not, he was stupid for opening himself up to the accusations. Long Bailey is exactly the same with a big fat plus that she is a politician that used that weapon against her enemies, yet fell into the same trap.

She should be sacked from the Labour party, not just from her shadow cabinet job.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 10:17 - 30 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:

Not for the first time you're coming at this from the point of view that your chosen political wing is under attack and you must defend no matter what. Israel's treatment of Palestinians is disgraceful but irrelevant in the context of George Floyd's death. Trying to implicate Jews globally was as cynical and wrong as any racism. A leading member of a political party came out in support of a tenuous link to Floyd's death when that party already, rightly or wrongly, had an unwelcome reputation for anti-Semitism. That member must either have a complete lack of self-awareness and political nous, or a deep-seated hatred, neither of which can be tolerated by a new leader charged with reversing the party's fortunes.


arry wrote:

I don't think the reasons for L-B's sacking matter in the context; nor, really, does it matter that the Mail have painted them as Jew haters even if it's not true. They've been quite happy to damage people's lives for non-conformity and when it happens to one of their own, well it's coming home to roost isn't it.


Oh I'm not trying to defend Labour or Long-Bailey really. I was just saying I don't think she was sacked because of the woke victimhood brigade.

I think Starmer did exactly the right thing to sack her. He had no other choice really, and I think it presents a good, clear message that he's on a mission to rebuild Labour's image.
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arry
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PostPosted: 10:30 - 30 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lord Percy wrote:

Oh I'm not trying to defend Labour or Long-Bailey really. I was just saying I don't think she was sacked because of the woke victimhood brigade.


That's where I was heading - regardless of the reason she was sacked the woke victimhood brigade have been pulling the trick for long enough and just because she's one of their own, they now want to be a bit more open minded; how very convenient Laughing That was the point Pie was making; he wasn't saying she was sacked because of them, he was saying that the sacking should be exactly what they wanted based on their previous actions, so why the up-in-arms?

Lord Percy wrote:
I think Starmer did exactly the right thing to sack her. He had no other choice really, and I think it presents a good, clear message that he's on a mission to rebuild Labour's image.


I was torn on that TBH.

On the one hand I can see why he had to do it, but in doing it - he's essentially replicating what the woke brigade have been doing, shitting on people that have a moment's thoughtlessness. Do we think L-B is really an anti-semite? If anything, the content was Anti-Zionist which isn't the same thing, and as she rightly points out, retweeting something doesn't - or shouldn't - automatically mean you are endorsing everything in the article. And even if it did, it still could have been just a clumsy mistake.

You sort of wish there was a more clear cut, absolutely damning case that came first to which he could lay out his stall.

I must say I am 'excited' (probably the wrong word) by him as a credible leader and I hope this is the start of an upward movement in the quality of our political parties. There's a bunch of absolute nuggets he's got to dig out and dispatch off into pastures new first though.
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arry
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PostPosted: 10:46 - 30 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:

On the one hand I can see why he had to do it, but in doing it - he's essentially replicating what the woke brigade have been doing, shitting on people that have a moment's thoughtlessness. Do we think L-B is really an anti-semite? If anything, the content was Anti-Zionist which isn't the same thing, and as she rightly points out, retweeting something doesn't - or shouldn't - automatically mean you are endorsing everything in the article. And even if it did, it still could have been just a clumsy mistake.


Oh dear god, there I go being all Jew Hater again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-53212785

Quote:
Those condemning Rebecca Long-Bailey's sacking are guilty of anti-Semitism, according to Nia Griffith.


These people, their absurdity and ability to use logic so warped it's terrifying are astoundingly dangerous.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 13:27 - 30 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Those condemning Rebecca Long-Bailey's sacking are guilty of anti-Semitism, according to Nia Griffith.


Logically, if LB was sacked for anti-Semitism then those who condemn the sacking are saying that she should have been allowed to make an anti-Semitic statement, so are guilty of the same by their approval.

However, the Labour Party has always maintained that statements criticising the actions of Israel aren't by definition anti-Semitic, so if it is to be consistent, it cannot have sacked LB for anti-Semitism. That is unless it is using a different definition, or she was sacked for something else instead...
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arry
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PostPosted: 14:18 - 30 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Diggs wrote:

Logically, if LB was sacked for anti-Semitism then those who condemn the sacking are saying that she should have been allowed to make an anti-Semitic statement, so are guilty of the same by their approval.


Only if you completely ignore any nuance or context - which, extraordinarily, is what these postmodernists wish to do. It's cut and dry (can't use black and white any more for fear of offence) in their book most of the time isn't it? After all, that worked alright on Count Dankula didn't it?

The context and the intent have to be important. If they're not then what have we got left of free speech?
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 15:27 - 30 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm not ignoring the context. What I'm saying is that it could have been any of the following scenarios:

1. She was sacked for anti-Semitism.

2. What she said was anti-Semitic but she was sacked for something else.

3. What she said wasn't anti-Semitic but she was sacked for something else.

4. What she said was arguably anti-Semitic and she was sacked for saying something arguably anti-Semitic at a time when the Labour Party is trying to appear as non anti-Semitic as possible.

Content - in my view not anti-Semitic.

Intent - it wasn't to make the police or Israel look good, that is for sure. Did that make it an act of anti-Semitism? Depends whether you think reference to anything to do with Israel that has a negative connotation is anti-Semitic or not....

Personally I don't think what she said was anti-Semitic. I do think it was unwise for her to mention Israel at a time when any mention of Israel by the Labour Party is under scrutiny and will be judged by someone somewhere as anti-Semitic whether it actually is or not.

I think she was sacked for being naïve and as a statement of intent on the part of KS.

Wasn't Count Dankula Mpd's mate who trained his dog to perform Nazi salutes? Hang on. lets Google... Oh yes, that nice chap. It was his girlfriend's mutt, and he trained it to salute to the command 'gas the Jews'. He then put it on social media and was fined £800 for being 'grossly offensive'. Should he have been convicted? Some found it funny so an argument can be made that it was an act of comedy. The court didn't find it quite so funny however.

In reality was he convicted of the intention to incite hatred or was he convicted of bad taste? If the former, then fair enough. If the latter... well, that is what a lot of the comedy I find funny is based upon so lock me up too Rolling Eyes
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:49 - 30 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
If Starmer really is a reasonable, sensible, straight-thinking politician, I wonder how long it'll be before he thinks, "sod this, I'm out of this rabble!"? Mind you, he stuck around long enough with Corbyn at the helm (and the rudder was disconnected then too), so maybe not.

What is this obsession that Labour have with Israel anyway? What has Israel got to do with them?
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 15:52 - 30 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:


What is this obsession that Labour have with Israel anyway?


That is a common misconception. The obsession is with Palestine and the plight of the Palestinians, not Israel. After all, we withdrew from Palestine and this enabled the state of Israel whilst at the same time kicked the Palestinians into the gutter. Guilt, if you like...
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Last edited by Diggs on 15:57 - 30 Jun 2020; edited 1 time in total
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:55 - 30 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Diggs wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:


What is this obsession that Labour have with Israel anyway?


That is a common misconception. The obsession is with Palestine and the plight of the Palestinians, not Israel...


So, what is this obsession that Labour has with Palestine and the plight of the Palestinians? What have the Palestinians got to do with them?
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