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kramdra
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PostPosted: 14:22 - 26 Jul 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamaha and Ducati shat engines Laughing Id be interested to know Quatararos engine usage.
Vinales and rossi only on the podium due to injuries and two engines going bang. Usually they are no better than 8th.
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 16:40 - 26 Jul 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ed1j2jdXYAAzeMZ?format=png&name=medium

That's why the team manager wasn't running down pitlane with his pants on his head...or whatever he said he'd do.

Just watched the moto3 That was brilliant...the suspense builds and builds...1 of any 13 could still win right upto the last 6 laps...then a smaller group, all the time overtakes are balletic and I didn't care who was doing them as they were just lovely to watch.

Moto2 is usually pedestrian by comparison, but I've not watched that.

Is the moto2 race worth 40mins of my time?
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 16:45 - 26 Jul 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howling Terror wrote:
Is the moto2 race worth 40mins of my time?


No!
There was a possibility of something happening, towards the end, but it fizzled out!
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 17:35 - 26 Jul 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

What the moto2 bikes are lacking are the details of the premier class.

Take the sophisticated controls on the bike of VR46.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ed3ZLtfWoAA5BhY?format=jpg&name=large
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 14:51 - 29 Jul 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best bit of the moto2 race was....

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EeFyJeyXoAEnYQv?format=jpg&name=large
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 20:56 - 03 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strong possibility that MM may sit out the next race or 3 after a problem has been found with the plate in his right arm.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 21:07 - 03 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howling Terror wrote:
Strong possibility that MM may sit out the next race or 3 after a problem has been found with the plate in his right arm.


Yeah the problem is that he's got a plate in his right arm. I've had a few auxiliary fitments over the years and they don't heal after a week or two. The one in my right wrist was still giving me big gyp after 3 months and it had to be removed as they found it was rubbing on a tendon. The one in my ankle was a simple staple but that was painful after a couple of months too.

The MotoGP doctors seem to want to shed the superhuman light on the riders, but they aren't. They are people. Very skilled very fit people, but people nonetheless, and even the fittest, toughest, most skilled, nuttiest most impervious to pain people can't ride a 250bhp+ motorcycle at race speeds only a few weeks after having a plate put into their humerus - It's just not a thing, even in the days of Dr Costa and his top secret pain meds.
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 21:20 - 03 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EehZKRtXsAAtxL1?format=png&name=large

I know what you mean MarJay. Could have a different champion this year...Imagine if Dovi pulls his finger out and takes the championship only to be dropped by Ducati or Fabio wins and leaves his bike to VR for next year.

Couldn't script it could you.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 22:18 - 03 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howling Terror wrote:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EehZKRtXsAAtxL1?format=png&name=large

I know what you mean MarJay. Could have a different champion this year...Imagine if Dovi pulls his finger out and takes the championship only to be dropped by Ducati or Fabio wins and leaves his bike to VR for next year.

Couldn't script it could you.


I wonder how much pressure Dorna put on to the doctors in their employ to declare one of their cash cows fit.

I heard that Marquez, Crutchlow and the other rider that was injured passed medical tests and were allowed to ride. As I understand it, they all broke bones and all had some sort of auxiliary fixing on one bone or another. You have to ask yourself, how good are these tests? If Marquez can BEND a titanium plate! I had a titanium plate... it was tiny but it was 3mm thick and has a C shaped cross section. Bending it... It's not a thing without a ten ton press!

Also the thing about him having no pain... I'm calling bullshit on that. The only completely effective painkillers remove all feeling from the affected area, like Novocain and that kind of thing. You can't ride a bike with no feeling, so it's not an epidural or a powerful local which leaves opiates... Any doctor which allows a rider to ride on opiates would be struck off... so what have they got them on if Marquez says he's not in pain? When I broke my wrist I was in CONSTANT pain for a long time, and then in pain whenever I put any pressure on my wrist. That was the case for at least a month, and then I was able to use crutches and so on but the slightest jolt, the slightest knock, putting on a glove, using a game controller... all these things sent ripples of pain up my arm. I can't imagine what a fractured humerus must feel like.

I do question the objectivity of the MotGP medical team on this...
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 22:46 - 03 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know with some of these riders. Was it Mick Doohan I read about who was with a doctor who was putting pressure on a broken bone and told him if he'd done that with anyone else they'd have flipped out in pain? Apparently Doohan didn't react at all. Another time he was going to be given morphine for something where it was commonly used and he turned it down for aspirin, or something equally mild, and the doctors were amazed that this was all he seemed to need.

And I don't think it's always (if at all) down to race organisers putting any pressure on riders to get out there. I think all the pressure comes from the riders themselves. It is astounding how focussed these guys are on achieving their goals, which is to win at almost any cost.

Have a read of the story of (again) Mick Doohan after his leg was smashed up; it's pretty incredible how focussed he remained through everything:

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/motorcycles/motogp/motogps-greatest-comeback

And he isn't the only one with that kind of determination.

These guys are different to the majority of us!
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 22:56 - 03 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
Also the thing about him having no pain... I'm calling bullshit on that. The only completely effective painkillers remove all feeling from the affected area, like Novocain and that kind of thing. You can't ride a bike with no feeling, so it's not an epidural or a powerful local which leaves opiates... Any doctor which allows a rider to ride on opiates would be struck off... so what have they got them on if Marquez says he's not in pain?


I understand that one technique involves a LOT of injections into the affected area, and that doesn't leave the recipient fuzzy-headed or otherwise compromised - a procedure that is said to be pretty damn painful in its own right.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 22:58 - 03 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
I don't know with some of these riders. Was it Mick Doohan I read about who was with a doctor who was putting pressure on a broken bone and told him if he'd done that with anyone else they'd have flipped out in pain? Apparently Doohan didn't react at all. Another time he was going to be given morphine for something where it was commonly used and he turned it down for aspirin, or something equally mild, and the doctors were amazed that this was all he seemed to need.

And I don't think it's always (if at all) down to race organisers putting any pressure on riders to get out there. I think all the pressure comes from the riders themselves. It is astounding how focussed these guys are on achieving their goals, which is to win at almost any cost.

Have a read of the story of (again) Mick Doohan after his leg was smashed up; it's pretty incredible how focussed he remained through everything:

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/motorcycles/motogp/motogps-greatest-comeback

And he isn't the only one with that kind of determination.

These guys are different to the majority of us!


I see that, but my assertion is that the issue is fitness to ride, not how someone handles pain in a hospital setting. As I recall, Mick Doohan came back to race very soon after his big crash, but was still out of the game for a couple of months. When he did race, he was off the pace and not fully focussed for a couple of rounds.

You can't come back after a week and be on the pace. IMO, you can't come back after a week and be *safe* to ride at race pace.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 23:00 - 03 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is probably a question of needing some regulation of what kind of injuries a rider can or can't be allowed to ride with. If they can physically do it, they'll do it, where nobody is saying no.
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UncleBFester
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PostPosted: 06:48 - 04 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently Rins injury was the more 'difficult' one and no one seemed too worried about him racing but then he's not the Antichrist is he.

Or maybe ban people with too much hair - that's not safe either.

I'm with Chickenbloke on this, they are not like 'us'. They manage pain like the rest of us manage forcing ourselves to get up in the morning. Unless you are like them ( including Crutchlow who is also as tough as nails ) i don't think you can draw any reasonable / justified conclusion.

Whatever, it's thrown the championship open and i can't see 93 clawing the gap back. With short compact season it was always about who is able to be fastest without injury.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 07:48 - 04 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

UncleBFester wrote:
Apparently Rins injury was the more 'difficult' one and no one seemed too worried about him racing but then he's not the Antichrist is he.

I'm with Chickenbloke on this, they are not like 'us'. They manage pain like the rest of us manage forcing ourselves to get up in the morning. Unless you are like them ( including Crutchlow who is also as tough as nails ) i don't think you can draw any reasonable


Rins is also off the pace, as is Crutchlow. I'm only talking about Marquez because he's the championship contender, but it all equally applies.

I'm not saying they aren't good at managing pain, I'm saying they aren't objective about their own situation, and probably aren't safe to ride.

I agree on your point about whoever stays the course this season without injury is going to do well. I have my fingers crossed for Rossi as an injured Marquez will give him the opportunity that he won't ever get again. Make it 8 championships and he truly will be the GOAT.
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UncleBFester
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PostPosted: 09:00 - 04 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dunno - i'd counter the argument by saying the people it directly affects ( those they ride with ) seem to trust them to make the right choices - if they start to complain or refuse to ride with them then there would be an issue to be concerned about.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 10:40 - 04 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

UncleBFester wrote:
I dunno - i'd counter the argument by saying the people it directly affects ( those they ride with ) seem to trust them to make the right choices - if they start to complain or refuse to ride with them then there would be an issue to be concerned about.

All the competitors will think is "Will I be faster than them?". They aren't going to declare people unsafe. Can you imagine of Quatararo put out a press release saying he thought Marquez was unfit? It's the doctors job to say that, not other riders. And by doctor I mean medical doctor, not Rossi.
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UncleBFester
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PostPosted: 10:52 - 04 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Racing isn't safe - so then it's a question of the risk being managed correctly.

I wouldn't even try and bash one out with a plate in my arm but then i'm a massive wuss.

From what i've seen, unless the NO comes from Dorna there isn't a rider in the paddock who wouldn't give it a go unless they couldn't walk and i'm not sure that would stop some of them.

When you compare it to the howling fannies on the football pitch who take a dive on what they get paid - i'd rather Marquez and Co continue to push the limits as long as the regulators say it's ok.

I watched what they did to his arm to check it was ok to race - anyone who can withstand that without grimacing is good to at least have a go. If the rider then decide after two laps in that it's not safe then surely that proves that limits are not being pushed dangerously.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 12:01 - 04 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only vaguely follow MotoGP but I can still picture when the spinning front wheel clipped Márquez's arm Shocked

I wouldn't be surprised if someone didn't go full "Wolverine" and get their bones replaced by titanium copies.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:04 - 04 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:


Rins is also off the pace, as is Crutchlow.


I'm not quite sure you get it. For most of us, some of these injuries would preclude being able to ride at all. Off the pace? Still faster than most of us could be when 100% fit. On Doohan's return from injury, he achieved something like 12th place in his first race. He was far from healed. 12th place in the premier class in the world, the very apex of motorcycle racing, against the very best the racing world has to offer. 12th place is a points position. Any points you can get advances your hopes in the championship. That's the focus you need to be the world's best. If you're fighting in that league, you'll convince yourself you can do it, until you physically can't. You can't expect these riders to back off and say, well, I'm not really up to it, while they can still ride a bike.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 17:09 - 04 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
I'm not quite sure you get it.


I do get it, probably better than a lot of people seeing as I've had a number of major operations and multiple broken bones in my lifetime. I also know what long term effects this kind of thing can have.

It's not about wanting to ride when unfit, or people being superhuman, it's about the doctors not being objective, so Dorna and the press can paint them as superhuman. Cos here's a newsflash, they aren't.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 17:13 - 04 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

UncleBFester wrote:

I wouldn't even try and bash one out with a plate in my arm but then i'm a massive wuss.


I learned to bang one out with my left hand when I broke my right wrist....
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 17:37 - 04 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you can go and get the lap times some of these riders get despite such injuries, then tell me they're not anything special. In fact, tell me they're nothing special when 100% fit. You and I have no hope of being in that top class they're riding in. That alone makes them special. Exceptional. Can you save the kind of near-offs that MM can? Can you imagine how sensitive you have to be to what the bike is doing to do that? How quick your reactions have to be? Can you even approach his lap times, even if given his bike and perfect conditions? And it's as much about their psychology as it is their technical skills.

I too have had more than my fair share of broken bones and other injuries. Tell me, have you ever found yourself so focussed on something you are doing that you stopped noticing pain? It's one of the tricks I use to this day when I don't want to be stuffing myself with painkillers. I wouldn't say I've got it down to a fine art, but I think it is an ability you can develop if you work at it enough. Most of us have too many other distractions to really get good at it, but if you have one overriding focus, I could see how many people could get quite good at it.

I'm not talking about whether they should, or whether someone needs to step in and say no. I'm talking about a set of people that can achieve what most can't. The fact that they're contending in a world championship in itself tells you they're not the average kind of people. You can't just take anyone off the street and get them to that level.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 17:38 - 04 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
UncleBFester wrote:

I wouldn't even try and bash one out with a plate in my arm but then i'm a massive wuss.


I learned to bang one out with my left hand when I broke my right wrist....


Hello, One-Track Smile
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:17 - 04 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some people are superheros on the track, some of us are supervillains.
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