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chickenstrip
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 Posted: 14:02 - 28 Oct 2020  Post subject: |
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Annoying page-get removed.
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 14:09 - 28 Oct 2020 Post subject: |
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| Diggs wrote: | | Quote: | What?! What did I say to upset you this time? |
Nothing. I sense a pattern, that's all, so I am curious...  |
If there's a pattern with me, it's to do with hating political ideologies that go too far, liberalism being the latest one to do so, but large segments of the left also losing the plot, and all at a time when the moderate right seems to be as inept as it ever has, giving no credible opposition to it all.
That to me is a dangerous situation.
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Islander
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 14:43 - 28 Oct 2020 Post subject: |
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| Islander wrote: | | chickenstrip wrote: |
If there's a pattern with me, it's to do with hating political ideologies that go too far, liberalism being the latest one to do so, but large segments of the left also losing the plot, and all at a time when the moderate right seems to be as inept as it ever has, giving no credible opposition to it all.
That to me is a dangerous situation. |
Meaning you have to hate everyone of any political shade equally?
Status quo...  |
Give me a question worth answering 
Actually, I'll answer that with another question: do you see any mainstream political parties at the moment that you can support with a free conscience?
I'd guess your answer will be the SNP, so I'd take from that you don't believe in free speech.
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arry
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Easy-X
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| Posted: 16:09 - 28 Oct 2020 Post subject: |
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The phrase "get over yourself" seems to have fallen into disuse 
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 20:12 - 28 Oct 2020 Post subject: |
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| Diggs wrote: |
I am curious... |
Ok, if you're curious about what I'm banging on about, try looking up Dutschke, "the long march through the institutions".
The marxists failed on economics, nuclear weapons meant they couldn't win by military means, so it has switched to cultural means.
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Diggs
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| Posted: 20:58 - 28 Oct 2020 Post subject: |
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| chickenstrip wrote: | | Diggs wrote: |
I am curious... |
Ok, if you're curious about what I'm banging on about, try looking up Dutschke, "the long march through the institutions".
The marxists failed on economics, nuclear weapons meant they couldn't win by military means, so it has switched to cultural means. |
Yes, but he was a mixed-up puppy and little threat to the establishment. He offered a way of looking at life like all political commentators do. He ended up turning on the Marxists and working against them, so he was the political equivalent of Italy...
I still don't see the 'reds under the bed'.
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Diggs
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| Posted: 21:01 - 28 Oct 2020 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | If there's a pattern with me, it's to do with hating political ideologies that go too far |
Snap
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Diggs
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| Posted: 21:10 - 28 Oct 2020 Post subject: |
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Anyway, I thought we were going to be taken over by Islamists? I can't see those Muslims standing for any of that pinko nonsense...
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 21:57 - 28 Oct 2020 Post subject: |
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| Diggs wrote: |
I still don't see the 'reds under the bed'. |
Well, we'll see. There's obviously no point in you and me discussing any of it.
Except...
| chickenstrip wrote: | Duschke |
| Diggs wrote: | Yes, but he was a mixed-up puppy and little threat to the establishment. |
It seems that the British government thought otherwise:
https://www.nytimes.com/1971/01/09/archives/british-panel-upholds-expulsion-of-rudi-dutschke-as-security-risk.html
Diggs, you said something a while back about your mainstream liberal views not being accepted on social media anymore? What was that all about?
(Edits due to OCD  )
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Last edited by chickenstrip on 23:16 - 28 Oct 2020; edited 3 times in total |
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 21:59 - 28 Oct 2020 Post subject: |
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| Diggs wrote: | Anyway, I thought we were going to be taken over by Islamists? |
I wouldn't describe having your head cut off as being "taken over"
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 22:24 - 28 Oct 2020 Post subject: |
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Sorry, lots of posts! But...
| Diggs wrote: | | Quote: | If there's a pattern with me, it's to do with hating political ideologies that go too far |
Snap |
I was under the impression you don't see any ideologies going too far today?
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Diggs
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Posted: 10:18 - 29 Oct 2020  Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Diggs, you said something a while back about your mainstream liberal views not being accepted on social media anymore? What was that all about? |
I can't remember the specific statement and its context. However, think of terms of derision for left/liberals, then think of terms for everybody further to the right. I bet you can think of more for those with a left/liberal slant...
| Quote: | I was under the impression you don't see any ideologies going too far today? |
Oh contraire, the world is full of ideologies that if implemented would be 'going too far'. In Britain however groups espousing those ideologies are never likely to get into power. Examples being National Action, al-Muhajiroun, the Communist Party etc. Look at the makeup of MPs in the House of Commons for your evidence of that...
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 11:31 - 29 Oct 2020 Post subject: |
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| Diggs wrote: | | Quote: | Diggs, you said something a while back about your mainstream liberal views not being accepted on social media anymore? What was that all about? |
I can't remember the specific statement and its context. However, think of terms of derision for left/liberals, then think of terms for everybody further to the right. I bet you can think of more for those with a left/liberal slant... |
Unnecessary if you want a proper conversation. I have some conservative values, but I also feel that the moderate left have some good points to make - or did have when they existed.
| Quote: | | Quote: | I was under the impression you don't see any ideologies going too far today? |
Oh contraire, the world is full of ideologies that if implemented would be 'going too far'. In Britain however groups espousing those ideologies are never likely to get into power. Examples being National Action, al-Muhajiroun, the Communist Party etc. Look at the makeup of MPs in the House of Commons for your evidence of that... |
What I see in the HoC is a bunch of unknowns, and I have no clue as to what their thinking really is beyond party support. Most of them don't seem to be particularly well educated, and lord only knows what crazy ideas they've picked up along the way. For or against, I won't easily forget their behaviour over Brexit, and some of the scenes we saw in Parliament. These people are supposed to set an example. I'm particularly worried about Labour MPs. They might now have Keir Starmer as their (nominal) leader, and I had hopes, but I'm already beginning to lose that faith. I'm starting to think that lawyers are absolutely the wrong kind of people to have as our MPs. It's not exactly an untainted profession. Otherwise, I think they're still heavily infected with 'Corbynism' and worse. That's way too far left for my taste.
The liberals seem to be full of people with ideas about minorities being more important than the majority. And other than being EU-centric, I have no idea what they're really about (I suspect you could replace the term "liberal" with "hypocrite" in the modern context). Maybe you could explain that?
The Tories are almost a non-entity party at present. They have lost their conservative ideals as far as I can see, or at least are too weak to defend them - say "boo!" and they melt. Much like the liberals in not having a solid base to stand on.
However 'bad' you may think things are, or not, they certainly aren't good.
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| Posted: 13:05 - 29 Oct 2020 Post subject: |
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Often we hear of the classic trope of somebody saying something mean on Twitter and getting a visit from West Midlands Police. And then you, of course, sigh and go "well! that's good news. Must mean they've run out of 'real' crimes to go after!!!" And to a certain extent that's true.
Let's take something (relatively) non-political: the Fire Service. "Oh noes! Another fire station is set to close!" as if this is only a bad thing. But according to the stats there are half as many household fires now as 20 years ago. A general mandate of fire retardant furniture materials and better electrics is slowly but surely paying off 
Anyhoo, I think the failure of Western Democracy is... its success! We've got to the point where our society can quite happily support entirely useless professions; I'd take 10 dole scroungers over a graduate in Feminist Issues any day. A century ago you did something useful with your life or you starved.
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Diggs
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| Posted: 19:21 - 29 Oct 2020 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Anyhoo, I think the failure of Western Democracy is... its success! |
A good point. This is what happens when a you get sufficient slack in a society to enable people to spend time talking about things, whereas in a less successful society they would either be arrested for agitation or they'd starve. One could argue that the ability to voice a different opinion to the majority is a downside or an upside depending upon whether you are in power or not.
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 16:08 - 30 Oct 2020 Post subject: |
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| Ribenapigeon wrote: | | chickenstrip wrote: |
If there's a pattern with me, it's to do with hating political ideologies that go too far, liberalism being the latest one to do so, but large segments of the left also losing the plot, and all at a time when the moderate right seems to be as inept as it ever has, giving no credible opposition to it all.
That to me is a dangerous situation. |
Well I'm still waiting for my trickle down wealth after four decades so conservatism is on my list of gone too far. |
I don't disagree that it has its problems, but are you confusing conservatism with capitalism? They're not the same thing. My view of conservatism is that it promotes the freedom of the individual, it's supposed to preserve the things that have been found to work, it sets standards for the individual to live up to, rather than relying on government to enforce them - in other words, it believes in individual responsibility. That's conservatism. Then there is the Conservative Party and the people in it. I think they're not living up to the standards they're supposed to believe in. It isn't Conservatism that has failed. But I also think there are other things outside of that which are also important.
Now, you can argue with all those points, but it depends on how you look at it. There is nothing absolute in politics, in people. Everything is nuanced. That's half the problem we have today. Everyone wants to simplify everything down to the last particle. The world isn't like that. You have to accept dichotomy, paradox, complexity, because you can't get rid of those things. You have to learn to live despite them.
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| Posted: 21:45 - 30 Oct 2020 Post subject: |
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Maybe we should encourage extravagance.
Could be anything: a YouTube video on goldsmithing, an auction at Christie's... MTV Cribs The main thing is all the rich people should be encouraged to show how successful they are as every designer kitchen, every bespoke games room keeps tradesmen in business.
Buying governments doesn't get you "trickle down effect" buying bling does
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