Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Battery flat in a day but no current drain ???

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> The Workshop Goto page Previous  1, 2
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

cliverlong
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 27 Dec 2020
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:41 - 23 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

I might have found the problem. Or at least what I see makes sense.

1. I left the battery disconnected for about a week and my crappo-multimeter consistently showed a battery voltage of 12.67 V

2. I replaced the reg-rec (with, yes, an EBay sourced one) and reconnected the battery. I left the battery and reg-rec connected overnight. This morning the battery voltage read 12.67V with the ignition switched off.

3. I started the bike helped by my shiny lithium(?) ion "booster", so as not to drain the bike's battery too much as the bike has been sitting for a couple of weeks. The bike started and ran pretty well. I disconnected the "booster" and checked the charging voltage. The charging showed between 12.7V and (max) 13.5V as I revved the bike's engine. So for now the regulator looks like its doing its job , delivering DC and limiting the voltage supply. I will reconnected my crappo-digital voltage display on the handle bars so I can see if there is an obvious drop in charging voltage. I will also connect the crappo-battery tester I bought that shows various things like the cranking performance - how it does that I have no idea.

So my guess is the problem I had with the parasitic draw was (might) have been down to a failed reg-rec which both failed to charge the battery and also had some open circuit , draining the battery, even with the ignition switched off.

I still have the Electrex RR40 reg-rec that was way more expensive than the EBay-crappo-reg-rec currently fitted and apparently working (for now). I dimly remember the Electrex RR40 delivered 18V DC to the battery - which I measured after I realised the previous battery had been fried. Which led me to fitting the handle-bar digital "voltmeter". To be honest there have been so much tinkering and failed components my recollection of events may be a bit confused.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

jeffyjeff
World Chat Champion



Joined: 02 May 2020
Karma :

PostPosted: 16:15 - 23 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

13.5 volts is weak. I doubt it is enough to charge your battery. At 2.2 volts per cell, a fully charged battery can read up to 13.2 volts no load. Your charging voltage should be in the neighborhood of 14.0 volts (13.8 to 14.5). I suspect a problem in the stator or in one of the 3 wires that connect it to the R/R, and suggest further diagnosis. The electrosport flow chart I attached earlier will guide you to the cause straightaway.
____________________
History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men - BOC
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Hong Kong Phooey
World Chat Champion



Joined: 30 Apr 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:00 - 23 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the output from the regrec is that low, and you keep needing new regrecs then you can measure the AC voltage across all three phases from the stator. It's not perfect but can indicate a stator problem if the three are out of whack.

You'll need to set your meter to AC, and run the bike off the battery only, for a few minutes, so switch lights off. Then disconnect the stator at the engine end and measure the voltage at a set rpm across the three combinations of the three outputs. It'll fluctuate with rpm so keep it steady. It'll be somewhere like 20v to 35v (check online for specs) roughly at about 3000rpm. It's not really about the voltage, but mainly to check if there's a considerable difference between phases. Any dead or lower phases probably means the stator is due to be replaced.

Then reconnect the connector and measure the same thing at the regrec, the three phases usually have the same colour wires. You should get similar voltage as before. If not the connectors or wiring might be shot.

A simpler check supplementary to the above is to switch on all lights and full beam, there might be a high frequency flickering at the bulb which can indicate the smoothed dc output is fluctuating. Doesn't always work but if it is flickering it means check your phases.
____________________
'81 CG125, '97 FZS600 : '99 CBR600F4, '09 KTM RC8
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

oilyrag
Nova Slayer



Joined: 07 Oct 2020
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:14 - 24 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hong Kong Phooey wrote:
If the output from the regrec is that low, and you keep needing new regrecs then you can measure the AC voltage across all three phases from the stator. It's not perfect but can indicate a stator problem if the three are out of whack.

You'll need to set your meter to AC, and run the bike off the battery only, for a few minutes, so switch lights off. Then disconnect the stator at the engine end and measure the voltage at a set rpm across the three combinations of the three outputs. It'll fluctuate with rpm so keep it steady. It'll be somewhere like 20v to 35v (check online for specs) roughly at about 3000rpm. It's not really about the voltage, but mainly to check if there's a considerable difference between phases. Any dead or lower phases probably means the stator is due to be replaced.

Then reconnect the connector and measure the same thing at the regrec, the three phases usually have the same colour wires. You should get similar voltage as before. If not the connectors or wiring might be shot.

A simpler check supplementary to the above is to switch on all lights and full beam, there might be a high frequency flickering at the bulb which can indicate the smoothed dc output is fluctuating. Doesn't always work but if it is flickering it means check your phases.


I agree. I would add one thing when you reconnect the regulator/rectifier and measure the AC voltage again you could get different voltages and it's ok. It depends on what the regulator is doing. If it's grounding all three phases or none of the phases the voltages will be the same. If it's grounding only one or two of the phases you could see different voltages. The reason you are unplugging the stator is to isolate it from the regulator and remove that uncertainty. Unplugging it is not a great test because it means it's open circuit so it's not under load but at least you know all phases are open circuit so it's a fair comparison between phases and you can say they should all be roughly the same voltage. When it's plugged into the regulator you can't say that for sure.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

jeffyjeff
World Chat Champion



Joined: 02 May 2020
Karma :

PostPosted: 17:01 - 24 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

oilyrag wrote:
... I would add one thing when you reconnect the regulator/rectifier and measure the AC voltage again you could get different voltages and it's ok. It depends on what the regulator is doing. If it's grounding all three phases or none of the phases the voltages will be the same. If it's grounding only one or two of the phases you could see different voltages.

What this? Current from the stator goes directly to the rectifier bridge. The regulator/rectifier cannot and does not ground the phase windings, separately or collectively. The regulator/rectifier balances supply power from the stator with the power requirements of the motorcycle by converting the excess into heat. With all due respect; if the phase voltages are not equal, something is wrong.
____________________
History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men - BOC
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

oilyrag
Nova Slayer



Joined: 07 Oct 2020
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:53 - 24 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

jeffyjeff wrote:
oilyrag wrote:
... I would add one thing when you reconnect the regulator/rectifier and measure the AC voltage again you could get different voltages and it's ok. It depends on what the regulator is doing. If it's grounding all three phases or none of the phases the voltages will be the same. If it's grounding only one or two of the phases you could see different voltages.

What this? Current from the stator goes directly to the rectifier bridge. The regulator/rectifier cannot and does not ground the phase windings, separately or collectively. The regulator/rectifier balances supply power from the stator with the power requirements of the motorcycle by converting the excess into heat. With all due respect; if the phase voltages are not equal, something is wrong.


Yeah voltage and current goes to the rectifier bridge. The rectifier bridge has SCR thyristors connected in parallel to each diode pair in the rectifier bridge. When the bike's DC voltage rises above a set point the regulator sends a signal to the gate of a SCR, that causes the SCR to conduct. The SCR are in parallel with each stator phase so when the SCR conducts it shorts the phase output, grounding it. The grounding is between phases, not between the phase the negative of the battery. Temporarily shorting the phases brings the stator's AC output down so the DC voltage comes down. The regulator can short a single phase or all the phases.

I should add that the attachment is showing a stator connected in delta so only one coil is conducting. His stator is connected in star so on his bike two stator coils are connected in series at any time but the point I was making was was about the regulator so it doesn't really matter.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Hong Kong Phooey
World Chat Champion



Joined: 30 Apr 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 00:09 - 25 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

For clarity, the test at the regrec end was for the wiring continuity from stator to regrec harness, and also connector condition, so would be done with regrec unplugged. Output from regrec was already checked by OP.
____________________
'81 CG125, '97 FZS600 : '99 CBR600F4, '09 KTM RC8
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 3 years, 92 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> The Workshop All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.09 Sec - Server Load: 0.48 - MySQL Queries: 17 - Page Size: 60.95 Kb