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350 bullet Trials redux

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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 19:10 - 11 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

The new tank was a bit of a saga. It arrived painted inside and out in non fuel-proof primer Rolling Eyes . Typical piece of Indian fuckwittery. They were obviously aware on some level that a lot of classic bike tanks are painted on the inside, they use some odd red paint which is fuel proof and covers a multitude of sins with welding pinholes and porous steel. So not knowing what paint specifically to use, they justy used any old paint.

After a bit of head scratching, it turned out the stuff dissolved completely in acetone so I spent a deeply unpleasant morning strippinjg the primer off inside and out.

I'm totally untrusting of the welding quality. it looks good but that doesn't mean its going to be fuel tight so i just POR15 treated it from the get-go.

Then I swithered for ages on how to paint it. I eventually had a good word with myself, told myself to stop being precious and did it with a brush and the machine enamel I used on the frame. I used the leftover POR15 as a primer on the underside and inside of the tunnel, stuff sticks like shit to a blanket.

Just tyhrew it on tonight now the paint's hardened. The front bolts through like a standard one, there is no actuasl fixing on the back. I cable tied a piece of grey foam pipe lagging to the frame spine and jammed the tank down onto it.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3e3AmSvYFkQ2a1jnEuwSBmNdmMt_40_uU-4T3Jr2s6XJM3lJRjIhYwsrqUS4ZbcsocZMyNcLDRY5pqZHAfbXxQ23fGjpktI5_AsD0mKprSNJEdIAiK0cXenmgjZ7nOToKK2203lfHZ1d_xnoMnz21FM=w1529-h860-no

I made a couple of spacers for the rear tank mounting bolt (still required for the head-steady bracket) and fitted a rubber "tank strap" which is a thick rubber band with an eyelet on either end. The eyelets go over the bolt and the band goes up over the tab on the tank.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cdBF54PmQQtm84Zh8ldhGeOtqpK9pM59f3ahYBRldrHzmKK3D6_t_CmqSNvolarTVLUBBB2GX0_-jZLLKDJc4JLmdS4-vjlAFaUtjK65BgmxjwF3GGyjl7KpvNgdalWlb4j8NwEzmcE-R5zJ9ye2-3=w484-h860-no

The fuel line comes perilously close to the cylinder head. I'll pop a right hand side exit tap on my next parts order.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cxSds1EBcSHx5mHwfuA1DLlXw4yMkjPl6g8z4l_YL093L4yiax6ESN7hX--KUE0sVIArzX4dlHtTuhiU56iiLCihBzQO0sSQzjALmSGs_XQf86GbfrjjSrEDgulOUGtXtUAj12GnHfUy7GB503aZms=w1529-h860-no
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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JonE
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Joined: 11 May 2010
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PostPosted: 17:14 - 15 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only just found this thread, it's awesome as is the bike, I've been thinking about going semi trials with my 350 Bullet partly because I like the way it looks and partly for some gentle green laning but this thread is making me want to go the whole hog and have a crack at a trials event too.

I need to replace my tank at some point, I dented it and ruined the paint in an off a few years ago, saga aside would you recommend an Indian tank or am I better off waiting for a half decent second hand one.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 19:26 - 16 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

JonE wrote:

I need to replace my tank at some point, I dented it and ruined the paint in an off a few years ago, saga aside would you recommend an Indian tank or am I better off waiting for a half decent second hand one.


Depends what you want. I suppose a dented one with ruined paint would be perfect for trials use!

The steel thing I got above probably isn't much lighter than a standard one. It's a copy of the works alloy trials tank but made in steel. Buying any parts from India is a total lottery. Alloy tanks being among the riskier propositions.

If you want a standard tank, Hitchcocks have loads of used second hand ones and shop seconds.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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wr6133
World Chat Champion



Joined: 31 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: 21:55 - 16 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks good, as long as it holds fuel I think you got a bargain. H's costs too much, would be terrified of denting it.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 23:59 - 16 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked at a lot of generic tanks for the ol' DT and the weird thing was the raw unpainted tanks cost more than the painted ones!
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 17:13 - 19 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got some birthday presents... A 21" rim and spoke kit and a low ratio gearbox kit.

This could be interesting. I'm waiting for a good spoke key arriving before starting on the wheel. The gearbox needs to be pretty much totally dismantled to fit the gears. Also a good opportunity to replace the cast iron layshaft bushes with bronze ones.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 13:04 - 25 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
A 21" rim and spoke kit and a low ratio gearbox kit.


H's "trials" gears?

Had them in my shopping basket for about a month now, on the fence about buying them as I seem to do ok with my 50T rear and the stock box. I was playing about the other day putting the trials ratios in to gear commander along with a stock and a 50T rear, it threw a hissy fit though and gave me some weird figures.

I was lusting after a 5 speed but I don't think the cost is worth it.

Be awesome if you could do some build photos when you do the gears, I've never pulled one of these gearboxes apart so would be educational.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 18:43 - 25 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

wr6133 wrote:
stinkwheel wrote:
A 21" rim and spoke kit and a low ratio gearbox kit.


H's "trials" gears?

Had them in my shopping basket for about a month now, on the fence about buying them as I seem to do ok with my 50T rear and the stock box. I was playing about the other day putting the trials ratios in to gear commander along with a stock and a 50T rear, it threw a hissy fit though and gave me some weird figures.

I was lusting after a 5 speed but I don't think the cost is worth it.

Be awesome if you could do some build photos when you do the gears, I've never pulled one of these gearboxes apart so would be educational.


Yeah, a 50t rear would be plenty low enough I think.

I worked out that it would still give me a lower 1st than I have currently even if I drop back to 14x 38t from the 14 x 42t. which would help with slow speed and take me back up to a theoretical 50mph road speed in top.

I will certainly put up photos, if only to show people how horriffic an albion 4-speed box really is.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 17:17 - 31 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

First step in lacing a new rim onto the wheel is take pictures of the old one before you undo anything unless you are much better at wheelbuilding than I am and can throw in a 2 or 3-cross pattern without referring to anything else.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cJDlRAqijLri1UMZOmoBWeGW7p5EgiNr-7cR1MDZJ9BO8pzV7b6_otwlj96vMWyfsUtuNScvB52I0kcu-GQ4Tb92ZOKqSMmaBF3cuNdLsecyASdyrzz5oq7BahUJuOgoPCFkozN7gR8_YhDePTB3a3=w1529-h860-no

Second thing to do is to measure the dish/rim offset, even if you are good at wheelbuilding because this will be different for every bike. This one has a -10mm offset of the rim from the surface of the brake drum.

Then you can dismantle the wheel. In this case, it's a decent rim and the spokes are ok so I unscrewed them and put them away somewhere safe. If the rim/spokes are knackered, now is the time to get medeivel with a set of bolt croppers.

The rime came as part of a kit from Central wheel wi the stainless 21" rim with spokes and nipples included.

The hub is an early to mid 1950's design with a half-width drum brake. fro reasons which will become clear, I am chosing to lace this by setting all the spokes on one side of the hub into the hub first. The ones that go through from the outside go under the ones that go through from the inside so I'm putting all those through first.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dDVUoZxkd7ICW1IBjwC-wH564ZtCKUYBuFVBxtW3KBLuA9ZBfgTEPdXTqxe6AlrifaY5x3Mb7lTbe2nt9TJEs-nEueSjRiFTHcX6-YlKPRMujFjEa4jTwZK5t_Uqamnif89bD93B9AvCwGFA0hL-qx=w1529-h860-no

Once that's done, I'll slip the ones through from the inside so they land up on top and start lacing.

The most important spoke is the one that attaches to one side of the valve hole. In this case, it's a leading spoke (one that doesn't take braking force) and goes through from the inside. I then find if I put in the trailing spoke in the hole next to it on the hub and route that to where it's supposed to be -in this case, 9 holes round from the valve hole and through from the outside- I have all the reference points i need.

It's a 40 hole rim so there are 4 sets of 10 spokes -leading and trailing on each side of the hub- that means each spoke in a set goes 4 holes apart.

So it's a case of fitting all the leading spokes into every 4th hole round from my reference spoke. When you get to the end, check there are three gaps before you get back to the first one. Repeat the process with all the trailing spokes. If you've done it right it'll look lke this.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3c09DnNflp9-UEBecxWuT9URMxLsEPYTQghfggTe3MZekAA1WJE7-wHWX8vKP3wKeNRo2jSo9lDIVB119ljJO5xBkp96fF-wXXeC4zAjmlzhrefwuMxKbOzTZ6xSNfScqCzSuBm4LPm3TPp3iQOEYLa=w1529-h860-no

It's worth noting that motorcycle rims (unlkike most bicycle rims) are "handed" and shaped for the spoke nipples. It's possible to put the rim on the wrong way round compared to the hub because the holes aren't perfectly in the centre, they are drilled offset and at an angle so the hole meets the spoke square-on. This is actually helpful because if you try to put a spoke in the wrong hole, it LOOKS wrong.

On a normal hub, this would have been a serious mistake because i would now have a great deal of difficulty fitting the spokes on the other side because I wouldn'ty be able to get them through the hub then past the rim so they go into the holes. I should have put them through the hub and loosely arranged them roughly where they need to be.

This is a half-width hub though and the non-drum side has a slightly different arrangement that allows you to hook the end of the spoke in after you've put it where you want it and through the hole. This makes life tremendously easier, it's a nice piece of design.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dQcf6O2NbpOwUUa9HnohwIeQ4iEE3zCD91r47RemwjIp6WEvO3A3DtJ8X4I1UgO7J0ED5ppHOdxOnxMvUk2NrtI3Qin-kWCq6eZm9bZHC21wZtv2q_HhdfrjOCRyWLeqKZwS0go9nnd9ByAB4FXs1i=w1529-h860-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dkONBGvXGNRc7kMEYy1ktRgNEa9lowly7aBDUskKuvUb1lmnnvU03TOXkzPXLfQbPIVVRyPnubtsht5J1pemLzdu7Ds-oCjwJnH4tD0yrnHmpDtV0okR1jQ8V41C1OymbSksiIoaAB3Oh6com1hEgV=w1529-h860-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eW88E0B9PdCui0oMK9PrqG3FuOLBjf0LMBZFCR3ABODLF_FL91qdLMSSHwVPZENnLb18avKJd6UD-Ll-rX83WfHcbOOmtGrQieew5lBxQA_BZbHiBBAgluxh9NZYCkhDSVo6WZZfJdJ1W3K3okA5fn=w1529-h860-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3ehENy0-lcE6KJWyogWfw9-4MNHQjMBGrnkLTbOQ1yG4IsbrYV0PvBo4VBJ7pN3ZH-_C9dlu-Z2Vlgyws-nbFYOX9zrOsWO6OA1h0SkaicsVSqXGSycT90j5t9IvsG80dg378M9srzlEIXDgT0HKRqB=w1529-h860-no

Then I generally fit a reference spoke the other side of the valve hole and lace as before. Spoke in every 4th hole, check there are three gaps at the end then do the final bunch of 10, the holes these go into are pretty obvious by now.

Here's what that half-width looks like when laced up.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eV7J4vgcUb004JBhHRqKlrt1BVp43otkWjf6jN6HFBRCrQDrU90AWEiht95W8tDhwLjot8WKLavs6Vin8EP9pDR0SxnNkzqnGVj_War9bNZyrYhiwQf2OUxpR672YHHj6Zgu9liguA9hlNFzDwDz9n=w1529-h860-no

All loosely fitted. they even included a spare spoke for each side and two spare nipples.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eY9iSTDdM38LHHi9CQyLs0AVITtq5JLj5Y08n7_dYxaH8KAx8iLk8nm5CDNCGUXVe5g9tx8VV6RNwWvDhNq29HIyzG66zNcOmt5Hrbo_C9D5ACUzLiBWrRZazebXk3ogMCr9pFubH2MW5gVZfHq0PJ=w1529-h860-no

Ok. They are mega loose just now and those spokes in the half-width end can still pop out so they need bringing up to finger tight. Here's where you start wanting to have the offset and runout in mind. The new rim is 9mm narrower than the old one so I need to subtract 4.5mm off the offset leaving it at 5.5mm.

If I set the drum on a flat surface and prop the rim up by the approximate dish/offset, this can save a lot of work later. it also helps to place the hub at least roughly in the centre. In this instance, I've propped the rim 6mm off the surface with some steel stock.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dLct2qizBnMLjeGn_1b4MbDJUrpYzrG27iuIYFpcw9caOAeP8sKsW3P0pyi1PPDYnHnbAQRu9fTlc7hyDlIs_9no5vUtST103uBcjz5d5yGUjTqVr9m0E9uKzptdXqfcYVrNXbVXHpAuzqRfoFKbiE=w1529-h860-no

After dong all the nipples up finger-tight. A quick check with a straight-edge shows the dish is in the correct ballpark. This is a good position to begine tensioning the spokes from (sorry, backlit picture).

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eb-2NjM1VhCb9KV5OFvS15ugpSUxJMGAX-ngrcaloOVvOLqR7hzfkxm8ckftf6CRPywOcQufcug5lR6mISzGW7Z71Mcdjzeagis_Njc5EeQVuCsvZfzO9hd-pZViCZpq-mj4Zg383QnRNtPb47WqWp=w1529-h860-no

The more astute may have noticed a lack of bearings. When i checked, one of them was rumbling.

Here's a good one though. I thought this wheel as a cheap Indian reproduction. I paid £16 for the pair, complete with tyres on. Enfield front wheels, like many Brit bikes, have the axle bolted permanantly into the hub. The axle them clamps into the forks.

Here's the central axle with one bearing fitted. You'll notice it's turned from bright polished steel and has a rather nice hourglass prifile in the middle. Indian wheel spindles do not look like that. They have machining marks on, they just step them down to the bearing ID, with no tapering in the centre and they are almost always badly yellow passivated.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3e-z0iPBiWwqAFwkOdTjk3FpUGjiPJZjrzoc8B_pqZ4z_631VBKBpIelDCGk3wr9Qv2ATytxs_pDhB2f4HBuFM-8a7PsnwSSd0WCq2jPKQP4Ccpx8rGJfQykZ_eRD08MJEe-U2_Lf98Iu6ZLlrs7Dyw=w1529-h860-no

Also the bearings, it's got proper LS7 Hoffman bearings fitted. While one of them is rumbling, they are a top bananna brand of imperial bearing. I can't see the Indians using anything but bog standard metric wheel bearings here. I think this may well be a genuine 1950's half width hub.

Axle re-fitted. ready for truing and tensioning. that though, is a job for another day, I've got a bad head looking at wheels and truing a wheel is not a bad head job.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fZnYbLO4-BEqJTMeDv-WWBj7CojPZdBF43ydSF7vpjjza9T0Isri-QB9Pqyg5W3R2XrdUJR62j7ZpvEB3Whyr_9gdqUHTPpn7BTiVL18-vFc8t8Il_8rHrLK6pK0iqreAoMUlE0VgOuRGEyn_aAcAp=w1529-h860-no

EDIT: Just read through this, damned good job I didn't try to tension it. Look at the state of my typing!
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 14:10 - 12 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got the wheel tensioned finally. As well as the weld on the rim, there was measurable deflection where the valve hole had been punched too making it a bit of a sod to true but I've got it to within 1mm both ways which is close enough. Well within acceptable limits. This wheel is getting a trials tyre on, anti-puncture gloop in the tube, will be running less than 10psi and also has a rimlock fitted so it's going to be all over the shop anyway.

I started truing using a wire pointer then moved onto a dia guage once I was closer.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3egNaO37iJNUihYAwpwMw8TRph5mSpbJ5pjZUOQDAAFOje-Q6RHVQdtW4XqsHrSiP9tUDHgus32Bl0VR93jTmak1c8GP0_p7onxukYLDn3QX-b6nGia6zRKBrjkpuBYlx6HfG1_WRsavrN9_LAxHWNz=w1529-h860-no

Got a nice new spoke key which helped immensely. I think the nipples were actually 6.4mm though, I landed up gently filing a bit off the spanner faces to make it a good fit.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eUxzwZUu8CfD_z__s3Btyru_aE7tzeJ4pVYzRF9x04N2cf1tHYJUvURhjYjKSz8p-rnxLSxd1h26EzRlsPaumo8vki0tcjo7eRpLlyWJyOl_IZqxdFJgoJhltRCyex2J_4NRHHeLdcaZagLAKEOTzs=w1529-h860-no

Once it was trued and nearly up to full tension, it also needed to have the dish set.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3chl681kC1oaUhr7Syz9d0VEgOJcC4AznbA8AQV67vIEoFFnjEY0OxW6AW-O_Jlm0dSjq9DiLk_e9k_z9dLLNNmPjB1hu3hc1ZeMfFVehPNuJFDzoWlnNaVo0kYzIzc5OgIm0NvwQBCmbB-muMSyGI_=w1529-h860-no

If anyone was wondering what a rimlock is, here's one. It fits inside the tyre with the bolt sticking out through the rim. Once the tyre is fitted, you do up the bolt and it pulls the rimlock down against the beads, locking them to the rim in an attempt to stop the tyre moving on the rim under braking (which would cause a blowout).

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fP3kQKU5uDKKb2O4zfzcu7oZJg_O2BZdWtXlO5JFKinq7Q7NibO-2q0vaTuWe818AMLLPNzRESrIOaz72YK-2I_RjosGyqkigHJBWTx5Ztkbb4ZzgHuz0AzNZL92u1abBN8sxDn6sbtezyBSVOPkFu=w1529-h860-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cUnfj1D_PDEPqPL7PzSiY56uGPCSO9EKmYowjGsFhJqhWsV-fzl2BwTtgPSc2ab0jBkz1PaICkhy-3dllDyz_azU9tq5sXgVZF8UFF9Np6EVDbQf_LpHzqjZiM6fzDas8YtXqp_V5z6QCV7g9r1mE5=w1529-h860-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dBsW0GAWDE9moFbxBFSCicEigsB_RNFEGwOKtOV1CYl5qu9kBXyObgcFKCIFy-ISfKwXSHJmFY3OAFCfZFskge4xx3rZXW3_eWaN-MbuhBtiJUmboYH4XLgVGOwQFbq6JGn0iZwy2u7fTvq7ZDN7L1=w1529-h860-no

Extra thick inner tube.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fIk1ZfLVeNLlu0ORleZa6wBPZ8UMN8QecrhUnmybTz_RipaYzJxaBxyvhz2l9Ijn2faBnnQZDr4S7Iz8RzgmSvQIpG_k7JLIpYOHBXphXVnHnWRwg6GbP3p4DC8SiNhzyxmmIf1eUXtdUphWZob0Qu=w484-h860-no

And not forgetting the rim tape. The rim tape goes over the top of the rimlock.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3f2TMdvA7cnxJ_t26P2gGEVdwWchjfMgYMvyJFeM7ta1DUjtafFxFCyhd9zmirorIXqCxmpqlpSAJgaOex4tk7MSpmErykPnVgkwAQFaQ8GAGgG36Fw5kwimDct3IGT02GnfD3ep3ZOSbKuh64QbmGj=w484-h860-no

Fitted.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3e4UNRAZksB4eB3kDSLxpgDUm0ONLr9wRp65zYn8UxZUA8EaSO5jIGhpa4T1pq4h6a3A0WbJOQ-funMA_nrFJ4TjM4xZ0noK-AIWS4gvlyZXenVS06_8mxjfwWVoQW9XRuWjlhikNloVGRtSUdO6asa=w1529-h860-no

I also did a rough check on the rake angle using a straight sideways photo and an angle measuring tool in my photo editor. I'm pleased to report it is near as makes little difference 26.5 degrees. If it was for fiddly observed trials, this would be way too slack but for long distance twinshock, it's just about perfect.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:21 - 12 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

We found 267 videos featuring "Rim Lock"

inb4 Ste Wink

With the mudguards and the new tank it looks quite svelte Thumbs Up
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 18:55 - 12 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

It feels lighter pushing it about. I worry about the headlamp but the casquette is actually a fairly lightweight alloy casting. I suspect if I fitted an alloy top yoke, clock and switch brackets, headlamp lugs and a headlamp shell, the saving in weight would be minimal.

Gearbox tomorrow. I've removed the drain plug, the grease will probably take until tomorrow morning to drain.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 17:34 - 13 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok. Stripping an albion 4-speed gearbox. These gearboxes are a 1940's design and weren't regarded as particularly pleasant to use even then. What they lack in finesse, they don't really make up for in functionality. I'd say they are the second worst gearbox I have ever used, the worst being the one fitted to an Estonian home market Ural.

One thing you can do however is piss about with them. i'm going in to change out two of the gears which will radically alter the gearing for trials use.

Standard ratios: 1st = 2.78:1, 2nd = 1.84:1, 3rd = 1.36:1, 4th = 1:1.

New ratios: 1st = 3.19:1, 2nd = 1.97:1, 3rd = 1.46:1, 4th = 1:1.

You'll notice 4th remains the same because it's straight through. So I'll land up with three super low gears then an enormous gap to 4th which will be road speed, because it's geared down 2 teeth on the front, it should pull 4th in most road conditions and sit at 50-ish. if it won't, I'll be stuck doing 30mph until the hill flattens out.

The other thing I want to do is fit a bronze bush on the layshaft because the cast iron one is picking up when I give it some wells and swinging the kickstart down (I'll explain this when i get to it).

Lots of detail because someone requested it.

First remove the kickstart, gear lever and neutral finder lever. It helps to put it in gear first for reasons which will become clear later.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dbeuCwvaaum79nnY_FX41pZO9xTKs_RZWfBr_3UgrTAvlBxm7yEIUbT7otFRunuz0jgOsqPLlm131BrtmxlarguqlqUpnQPmwDaaCxxAjbxNggl6bQ67-QTMa0m_FLa3umY79A_UKY3qFpGX5hUB9x=w1529-h860-no

Undo the slotted screws, remembering that the top "keyhole cover" screw also holds the gearbox cover on.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eaNyp0TKbFYNyLHNz6u4QZZlDzeAgSpfclO5ruXQTOaLmw87GJHckOM4eyUyZjdYF-roJCjzFEWKZlmo3Ni-pM_jAZ3RuRg9Q3MKYeTOJ6ZX45n7t1zckOtHfjFB-m4toUyz7SqtDSEbJfuIh1nsm1=w1529-h860-no

Unhook the clutch cable and lift the cover off.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eBpZ5eHbUKYSOsZ-sOXZrzmY3dn2brhmoXNHydZfGY5T1qGwh1xDvjy3ELopAQif0oBbs8DfM7xp1vKYJaK9gtZZPEzxBdM7hzckfdvN97thVsKP9tVKAm3J_RySROmJ7zyJmy1c4pMCEQTT404DXw=w1529-h860-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3c0BOdSWp8RBkAE3M7NT7qCO8xAW9MjU7tjho6vqYC-M0hUt8VgRF56CkKgWculP8yfBotNsp6PM_HHfTKoXrY4OhBr4skw7x_2oej7j1dWbxXI2f1758PGQul981RWY7gEH9hQVFnsSsUBZd0TJSu5=w1529-h860-no

Undo the two half nuts holding the stop-plate on and remove it. This will expose the ratchet assembly.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cSR3rb9tQbWR1wjllV8_lwJurmU3jMnfyUOH0N_TWdvNuOoFw4nZpXz247fMMEe4rnBD2IqacxRJxyLzAKb60YfSYlbsQhQvlpBdcGKvUCXZlEVHjl3kf2z6BaetBmJbOQAiXz_jDS8Gg1hLSGwIiI=w1529-h860-no

The whole ratchet assembly lifts off. As does the foot control lever.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fH7Bx9JIF6PzwWTGzp5O71011ILZ01hsJZ0p-91JV7lSqid7pXgLh3eqXQsnuxRZevGtKzBGGakaVC29DHQHk7TOjxsc2fjSPPhuWmKu0w6uJHhbUZnnnxkrLQUGzFOAh_Dc0P0LcntcWGyzY8z8iL=w1529-h860-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fWOd6ppdmIlJroRXLrBgwCHMolGfXHwIdDVKR610_4ViY6h6oPk1DezPHUQeMKwG_NhKXd80WiD_kwljtBCLwbhqK_qKLyLKkFc5_yW8fpAuIgf0K-wVL-dciqup5kyskaxdT72eJtuYTs29L9l4d2=w1529-h860-no

The gear operator selector assembly locknut (hex nut at the top right) needs to be removed.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dvqBwdq0Z_s9MdbsNyjsuabsOHWXLawUEzPxzgNIMl2mYwJwqvJ48K97jKLc3zIFc09mCBRRe7xnWf45sACJhLq8pF4P0edpyIqcAWBVTjPu5Epc5_PRYGLuMJ_BRJI1b9Tv_jBGSOuhvp-AwtmnAk=w1529-h860-no

The bottom bolt on the ball bearing cap also retains the kickstart return spring, once undone the spring can be removed. Try to support this bolt in position when undoing using a socket. As it nears being undone, the spring can rock the last coule of threads out, damaging the alloy.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dC-UUfq39CSNKDpH5Tl3-pINyNNFJUAaCakOJzfTy6Ff0GlQS-DWj17niS1Mk0MgDwfewrULMUQYbKtivAdRjfS1KcWpD7mfuCkekLB4sqptpBGZTlHnM50357jKQLqM7m_WWLdqGvm2Ecydc7DDqx=w1529-h860-no

The two pins holding the adjuster plate on have two flats on which can be undone and the plate lifted off with its springs in-situ.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dJtzx2-T1sucoCFHDgMWEcLXQoeUgqYaxSM2az5ZH9anX2jAwcW6tU8Vp95xsMAfq891x9y3-nDuGTPy45uXB37oJkwAZdBEo77xJ4lffHd3TIdPJTsquxHbpHUbsOKxF4K-ZCLqMqYdeF0fCKCMdO=w1529-h860-no

The final bearing cap nut can be removed and the bearing cap tapped loose. You can also pull the clutch pushrod out which runs through the centre of the hollow mainshaft. There may be a ball bearing stuck to the end, don't lose it!

This exposes the mainshaft nut which has a tabbed washer. THIS NUT IS A REVERSE THREAD. This is why you put the bike in gear before. You can hold the back wheel with one hand and undo this nut with the other. If it's in neutral, the shaft will just spin. If you need to put the bike in gear now, you can rotate the square shaft with a spanner as you are turning the engine and you should get a gear.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cm7TJ8onQCwISwFG4Un5FdtnEVLSH4SeWO0iRc_I6VsNJ0o1SUj70m6U8lfBaInIPMVd5rWYnKZ1EHiKQQCgxPKEu_L_R5jnssqDy-Bi083IsBQ6ivuolIaTAcHAmLHaojmNfyd46Ank9QKDjzkiO-=w1529-h860-no

The bearing is not sealed. This is why these gearboxes are grease and not oil filled. Now undo the 5 slot head screws (there are two under all that nasty yak at the bottom).

Do not remove the hex-bolt at the 10 o' clock position to the kickstart shaft like I did here. It holds a crescent-shaped detent for the kickstart pawl in place and it is a real fiddle to get in the proper position.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dM8ci5lVgWXKCvxCljCqQfNyNsTFt0qBpvqbhK3Dv0-ptQcFsQTlGcL5Y_FyvkCX1KKm4eK7FYRi3OfY2Sba_WUusddBWRNvjt_fUpuIOLM--WBVVBNLnwXYkRqmUGhLwnr5iAj5mj_MjlmAKcxEEb=w1529-h860-no

The whole outer cover should now lift off, taking the kickstart shaft with it. This is the inside view.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3c2jAX1br5gqltYMGKbtGOxjsfTimEPOSdfLQ9eyDbvArjXoonXZ8RNwyY5dddbXkTurYsgYZOx0jgigtCovGxRNPxp6zrqP37dznzJtSSfS16dMTOeJs59NVN86jwJMBYSsV0LGL1-mJB-pM7tP3N5=w1529-h860-no

And the inside of the gearbox is now in sight.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eQnp5iF0KEdfrwCxYLIbOJT2hmU10UzRL68s-EbeyAeUBQdW0fD9eT4zMTAkAf01iEV_9zxV5XHp5qkrH7Ntd6MeHadK0X8KehlNWTt5c_Z78JSY0C6mzCg_kFa8VyKDVSvBg_tAmC0EMOA5Dl97lO=w1529-h860-no

One more thing that can be done from this side is to remove the gear operator pin bush. It's on the back of the gearbox, facing the rear wheel. It's a total sod to remove because while it's slotted, it has the end of the shaft protruding out of the middle. Idealy you'd need a huge flat screwdriver with a notch in the middle. I may well make a tool for this before reassembly. It's also really hard to reach.

Once the bush is undone, the pin can be removed which frees up the selector forks inside the gearbox.

On reassembly, it became apparent that it was not necessary to remove this pin! Once the mainshaft has been removed and the layshaft pulled back out of the left hand bushing, there is enough play to lift the gear operator off the forks and slide the gear clusters out. It is a fiddle but do-able.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fjEkYWI53Qe5sq1Q-Dk0LIb9sWp_hGHXDs2WyJpwRWyaqD-iDs2EcRoQzWOfroYvehyXx_1Z7gadVBBqHd0yoXKPJzE79js7M0Jgjy40ukxCl8TE17TpeRvhsWlKKnHTG05YCFmN7lJp3-w5fdWvXA=w1529-h860-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3d8MNfKXUmWoSyQY9ZgQzGH4THv8qPlBCBiDFA3CPG2VbLoBU9U-8j1qAfjdigu9YkVdSyYpiUzArlC1DiNvkVjdtvNi5dR718SO0uWn2DodekBX9UucQaVmoUcomsyIk4aXtPYPK6vCKXJ1eMd0zro=w1529-h860-no

Further dissasembly requires removal of the primary chaincase. A job for tomorrow I think because I spent most of the rest of the day getting the old layshaft bushing out.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.


Last edited by stinkwheel on 09:47 - 19 Feb 2021; edited 2 times in total
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 17:52 - 13 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the kickstart shaft. The layshaft runs in the end of it in a cast iron bushing.

If you make a smart getaway, instead of the layshaft rotating in the bushing, it can pick up the kickstart shaft and rotate the kickstart backwards. On this bike, it hits me in the shin. The solution is relatively straightforwards, you simply replace the cast iron bushing with a bronze one.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3f6CQYegwIxy127faKbTU_3KHsFnoD7b2VeCZUAD35C7-aq6aot6RuDzHad3DZXP6uojyi2HWO8igl7GFVU7kdXV2W2XYmUhAGvQkc84vRc7Ana6GiRa4IJ87Mx-ik3UPPqjaDeceZKPPLfe9dujAsr=w1529-h860-no

The less straightforward bit is the cast iron bush is fitted in a blind hole in a steel casting. It's been in there for 15 years/90k miles...

I had a cunning plan to use an M10 rowlbolt as a puller (the old bearing was just being used as a spacer, it was knackered anyway).
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dYaKHyEldoqPqDwiJl5-r6EUMJh_NJK1vlGndot2Z9jEouGvyXL-uKBhE3BTzDd4Iy_K28PlZWlsKxs5FnGONJc_Gka_zjP9CjX1-qaB9UU7Lu5zRfT_iuRaTNl_HKI5CGcak942LkQuF2dz7xc_32=w1529-h860-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3c5R-phO-GVQ29pnqdVLBe2VWVxg7iAIH8mHDNQcwAX4kD8vpNuF-VV0iwAkQM1rTrF0VXM4EUucgFQ6GJzmxtUtWirOPiUI4FHnmz4LOYV2lt3TNiMooohEaPiUv_sS6rM5Q_2t_qQJy3aGbggR1j6=w1529-h860-no

This did not work, it wouldn't budge, not even with heat. I'm not convinced a blind bearing puller (the correct tool for the job) would have got sufficient hold either.

So plan B. This bush IS cast iron, not steel so it is soft and brittle. It's 22mm OD so I first ran a 20mm blacksmiths drill up the middle to leave me with a much thinnner "shell" of bushing.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3f67-QKmhh7UZ8rsKqWPm3asTa0FJNaiNlz3dR09Zttw9ezs1OG-okUoXeCFSIFQNWO5coS5f0r11tFzk44wOMA1GCda0sZSuERWoZkwvTfZ4Qj9KlvqAdfruMfYaaWS6-j0mYFRfht6hGcQeN0VCZ7=w1529-h860-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3c9xeazY6J-3ZSvQUFs12pyyV39NPW9Dz96EFwWv48ta54Y-0xhhr9amnk8JcEUHdVQRjfw2Hex8fBxBn7RDygxVUxcJvAcU2Yiwkrn9EB4qUjdXPAwJfVQOmD82pNiLxRirzBxqOpLZml7YXgNBxmn=w1529-h860-no

I was then able to break the shell in by abusing an old screwdriver.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3d8kf31z-aCrHjKXORWcOwgYhdnTHj8-fUkEgwsI6JBi5-JnOS8caVJ_E6IO1mhxQqw-hprLRlzIiKFnryVLxUQsQc8w_8xj3xYanzRVzFk9GY0jwkLCX7l5vXhjc7P5nw4eGrtBjWeuj3rNgVmFqOD=w1529-h860-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fjhxAWYPZpTwuI62YHok_s_Wn-lYJ-_b-S3kQdS4bTpKrO4QZVUXNFzn1BQ-t4eM3lT9VTPMHB0_PqYJ4b3v5RhdeftmbhBimOB0AhuVOvHJeBsbstZJ5ogh2yFFoEJtmdmiyPCoXaQ1IGdDi_Fe7W=w1529-h860-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cdYU9-1IvPt8N-i3jkc2dqm76EWooPQGJpRBdZ51f9Lh_V6NNMS5gAbfwvAYmbbFFG_OgYUzvLeNb043MlfQ3pS-wEQ5Wy_SQPqAfirPiPPfqYFzSR-EeGkkwABqnYn-3kzXZUbErUVPuPMBYPsKyi=w1529-h860-no

The above took a long time!

I then tapped in the new bushing having heated up the shaft.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3f59IsfFh0XXSANAKa2VXhO9O4Pdnd4ZVWJUE1WzTrbTMQpwfAjRLq7YnXdPMG1dZTJI2Se0-j-367lyaEnJf67pVu4SpAIi4keNVbq7IAoCJL0fAZkS1jlpoWNtt01ImYAyvCVTj28X5u7p2pwxyId=w1529-h860-no

Only to find it would no longer fit over the layshaft, despite having checked it did before fitting. The shrinking of the steel must have also contracted the bronze. This is fairly usual and the normal thing to do is to run a reamer tool down it in a mill or lathe. I have none of those so my solution was to very slowly and gently ream it out a bit at a time using wet and dry paper taped a bit of steel bar a bit like using a fire drill until it was a good fit.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3f1nwrABa_zEoCrnUu38K2kFdjYa4ARRtfTxJW0jdpGW3pyDKj7_vGnsd2eztnrEaS8pcx5i3iHc-mW6sUrs7vEU4NMM7BQN8W8bIV4V-CqQApL7SyYo50AM8GewNP8zpfeV1uyoegsT5U9ARB6H98n=w1529-h860-no

Quite a successful day so I'm leaving it there for now.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 17:58 - 13 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yeah. I think I'll drill a small drain hole in the bottom of the outer cover while it's off. If you ride through a flood, there's no way of stopping water geting into the outer gearbox compartment through those keyhole covers. I may as well make it easy for it to get out again then I should have less rust and stuff accumulating in the bottom.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Easy-X
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Joined: 08 Mar 2019
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PostPosted: 20:12 - 13 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

In case anyone's wondering what the deal is with the neutral finder lever (I know I was!) here's a helpful YouTube video:

https://youtu.be/CNXl7nH5Yu8
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ZebraDriver
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Joined: 13 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: 20:16 - 13 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice work. A couple of ideas for you if you have to do any bush replacements in the future.

Blind bushes can sometimes be removed with a hydraulic method. Fill the bush with grease and then give a tight fitting punch a good thump into the grease, the hydraulic action should force the bush out. I have even heard of someone using wet paper towels in place of the grease (don't know why they didn't just use grease).

Your reamer looks like something we use from time to time at work, but we use a rod with a 1" deep hacksaw slot in the end. A piece of emery tape fits through the slot and holds itself in place without resorting to adhesive tape.

ZD
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 18:44 - 14 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Continued. There is a nut on both ends of the gearbox mainshaft. The other one is a bit of a bugger to get to because it's in the middle of the clutch.

So primary chaincase off with drain tub underneath (there is no drain screw, you just have to crack the cover and let it run out). You'll need to remove the footpeg on a normal bullet to do this.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eUfaA9GbaQzMJD7OAH1pEJejjaOTRFyPo4Zzv0e7J-f3GtintbUS533aEsC_Hbn05UMNIU72PTFn_cP2McE0Y_K9-N0U3-MQhC19BEkrGUPu71sZoYxFJEOvMtDV70Pn2PyfINbVdm6XkziW9xquXh=w1529-h860-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fuOXl_W7lU7Hp6qwsfWnZB8-LWdfRJlzZNNB7A-bT3fGNcNd6yCBL1fNqFFhAEFszKPztaTslWb8XOrvxX4F3osWNnR8Sq5awQBVRfLhuGtCro4XW19dZQ4GT_4qWvipi9pSxvH8ULTvr3Rnu6Whsd=w1529-h860-no

Here's where I cocked up a bit. I didn't really need to remove the alternator as it happens, I had it in my head the whole primary chaincase would need to come off, and this would have been the case if I needed to fully strip the gearbox because the nut holding the final drive sprocket to the mainshaft sleeve is behind the chaincase.

However to change out the gearing here, I just needed the remove the clutch plates and centre nut. Too late was the cry, alternator came off too. three nuts and the stator lifts off.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dItHz9pnpu96mWfjbY9FoJzfs6klGuJaHIoewgXI7bwrFWFP4yy5zDG7mF93VckmR_f643NFs4NVm7aXWoUo8kUDDBFqeIgVLlWndoWQf78eRu6yzORhQ9nMnTV2ZgxoRdCzXd4AUU0m4WAO9tV1et=w1529-h860-no

Remove the primary chain tensioner because the next step would put a fair bit of force on it.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fl-sb5QjXHo62mFUl6CNyF5g2OWLRK0Go1W9wL2hXHDgc5NIaIK8CiqSzJuOHR2K2VAJD9U8RMs0vOAceKkKnfXsIjDYc_Z5iaT9G37Iqu1M5kjCKUBa1UDcgTNM1ANkQkWE26q-mEUS84t9r_4Z27=w1529-h860-no

Then lock the primary chain with a piece of folded denim and undo the crank centre nut (normal direction thread).
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dKJ38bYK1STcagJJ8EFQvW3SfHlCBdOCu7UxM4YRqXhpurUa95sh015kpX7bjmQQXA2N3SGrkHHrl2Sh8rDBbUJ6I4V_fiXSTHvziCug8WA4mWwkE-eiCVXKWuQN-R_UGTD4EMQPKo4YTL9yiAsi6s=w1529-h860-no

Altermnator rotor slips off and put the Woodroffe key somewhere safe.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fiL-PJXQVVxK2sq62Afh6YGTKCcYym1HDz5R0GrDjVaTPD6rfV7JJwvWM3OMZxGDt_0ekxhSNTPY4wwUba1BxAPN6ayw0RKdhaMEcxOiJflTkERrxCQqc5WZj5vBTY7ktgS1jAun2XfOOcchZ58Sr5=w1529-h860-no

Undo the three screws on the clutch pressure plate and the pressure plate and clutch plate stack can be lifted out, exposing the centre nut.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dSy83BRhBg8_WQ8Iu_rpZHOaTQjgh-5LSSGJ7qPJKegjW38Gej2dYyfMf1BTb35H9lqP80RC8nttecNXkmgK2h9B9sQGn51rbqyM4UE8nSwlbUY3JopbHsKXgcNLhv2xzsh9AlClTLePvXGnR6UuAN=w1529-h860-no

Centre nut is easily undone with an impact wrench, or with a great degree of buggering about with special tools without an impact wrench.

Remember to remove the "top hat" from the end of the clutch pushrod. Also remember there is still a section of pushrod and possibly a ball bearing inside the hollow mainshaft.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3e7TTcl4dLZEZBSh2n_QhlPLYk_72R-UZeCXJGZHDf2aBtGh7Dfm2vp-PF5pc_YdNhST51ss8611S6Ljjgt7kkvgwNNsBRpGxTCOb3vcqoCtq7a7i5i-itWlHoLbPdLNm7sNpjoHTIt9gquoWJRyf0C=w1529-h860-no

Once the clutch centre nut is off, the mainshaft can be pulled out fromt he gearbox end.

NB. There is an oil seal in the inner chaincase behind the clutch. Dragging the clutch splines through it could well damage the seal. It would be a good idea to wrap the splines in a bit of plastic bag for this bit, or be prepared to replace the seal (this can be done once the clutch basket is removed).

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cXCkBqzKGQNuLxbZAtbTh1W82_5R6ymRUolo-SLgKoIvZwU7mp9XaTkB_XgF0wFZ7A_6iyMwvqjqX9bEVe2phLSCKZV4OnliIT4fjAdHeN24YZlI0i_X9s6MeTyWithYBIF3j7nF2Y4bWhm-e_B5JH=w1529-h860-no

Don't forget to remove the gear operator selector.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cSe3IPKQGX7xGw0jEWgecUx5KYsrr2EO5ufJX1I2fZebIn8ETKbPANmV_bNlQFA-ploKehdfsaIzERdbZU1yEUaeMpmowrZGlm-ICOUsrkeFi7C6zRFN7uZdTVvu6mDd7YePDl35mk1OIzziEvvBNF=w1529-h860-no

Once the mainshaft is out, it creates slack inside the gearbox. We already removed the gear operator pivot pin. The gear operator itself can now be lifted up off the two pins on the gear operator fork. Then the whole gear assembly can be lifted out of the gearbox (leaving the mainshaft sleeve and low gear attached to the bike in the back of the gearbox).

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3e1HCCVSTccP6E8hBlT42wq387aTSIob9KwrX7HNPavX9lHRo1wR-i054sJMYx7Ih6O08ElJiNIM93KgAQ0TpH28AOHun7QiWomnIm-_zHKSmkwQkp4d5OR_9jkl1gyV2G8nhl6ijd4DK0_djsF4305=w1529-h860-no

You can see the ends of the gear operator that you lift up and disengage from the selector fork more easily when the gears are out. This picture also shows the mainshaft sleeve and low gear still in-situ and below it, the bushing that receives the far end of the layshaft (which is already bronze on this gearbox).
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fWi7vVsMUibeynf0itQmJYfY3KGAaZAU7oxiYPMnI3J_ZfGZ9MBLXOUNfVyM1Ct75rCOHfCdLKXl53wz5RpoZl_NXDHvajW7IcebbacFaqkQnlX6717cMT9bLIknfxIFD2wN-1Qbdp_mNmZ9S4eMTw=w1529-h860-no

I now have the bits I want. I'm replacing two 15 tooth gears with two 14 tooth gears. That's it. One is pressed onto the left end of the layshaft, inboard of a bushing which is also pressed onto the splines. This took a lot of force on my puller AND quite a bit of heat to remove.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dSmX5GdZva4gsBcwfz1tIxw1uHhcOTSJDioT9H7jgfSvAM4P4xVk_FgImWP7S9Th48L-eBYomJBx8eMgeyTCrfpM4KxBdZ2UGWVc_tVXuNpXITG7gBOYgzrkbodctWtLT9HOX3S6RbdogFTuNHD4H1=w484-h860-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3f_yED1ooOV7hvbDyOSIgnjAIGsAXQtWyxr6FodnX7FONSoffSFPXanly8cUzW29KaxgSCZWrI_FWAZcNfktJN_lJYWfaeiroSViK4h3SgmjuP8bhOAM6hcyU9X_Er4oB0RoFrWvIw8d18rHahxL6bM=w1529-h860-no

Two new gears:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eOFnmkk8M0PusdwMvfIb--alUNTtp0khe402MIFFtGkABQKx9bBqrUezBEuuhgFrlgnSR7Ic5pNtuSCKPW4n4IDbqaSd_EpCMBJjdwtSdfjAzWnnKjbKBpuua1jionIR-Z-M4g-_Lycsj0icn0co9g=w1529-h860-no

The other is on the end of the mainshaft, there is an oil flinger outboard of it and a dog inboard of it. The dog can stay where it is.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fx2cYnoUpHdVXnOy3u3gzOiOVB56QPUX5I8Bk1KMdxEyQQAnV9OPTBoiPwudleOoF29JHiFhm5zwCSafFo77ucOUFvfrTpzMTPGsW0cl5ZcSjf6TGcPnsxVDj5S6NUyDmGLs75ATiYIfOPyk-lxhNY=w1529-h860-no

Two leg puller wasn't man enough. The three leg needed winding until it creaked, again a lot of heat. Goggles on, this much force on case-hardened gearing is a recipe for sharapnel if something lets go!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3em5Ww5ih6LSW6bikwu3owE3FiwU_EhcWQv-PTFqjOz7bKS-fd6WUklLSxHsauhNAtAAaVQH017MCGpdWz5kMXCCm_2EAxBA12ePVSBXLzzJS_55IfX8gB3xEr-v2aNxEDXiIG_tgZU72b-kh3-fofN=w1529-h860-no

Fitting the new ones was pretty straightforwards. Shaft int he freezer, gear in the oven and that got them halfway down, i then used the old sprocket as a drift to tap it on the rest of the way... One day I'll have a fly press

Only one casualty so far which was the gear operator selector which is a sprung detent. I over tightened it and mullered the end. New one on the same order as the grease, they are only £6 and so it's not worth fixing.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dCRWgq2Ta2PdYUbv37MQm3L5HVx-elNxk8a-N0pUBwG3irlXTJdl3aZtxDTCMgz7h0HS4-fXYaK17ZJgun5d08UIDIa6s-PHEbnUohKw6OTxlO_TW41xGgeOtS1kX77o-VLszjoVdJ9JFpNWhDUnQa=w1529-h860-no

Just needs putting back together now. Breaking that detent was mu cue to stop for the day.

A note to anyone doing this. I have heard of cases where the old sprockets will simply not come off the main/layshafts. I suspect there was insufficient determination/persistance with the puller and a reluctance to roast the hell out of it until the grease is smoking out of the joint. I alternately wound the puller up, applied heat, tapped the end, gained another 1/8 turn on the puller, applied more heat, tapped the end and so-on. I was waiting to be hit in the face by a red hot gear but it actually came off in a fairly civilised manner in the end.

I hate re-fitting alternator stators on these bikes, they need shimming and it's a pain in the balls. I wish I'd thought about it a bit more, it could have been left in place.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 08:34 - 15 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

That bike is looking serious, the tart in me reckons you should paint those mudguards though. Any idea on the wet weight?

Thanks for documenting it all. These kind of guides are absolute gold and lacking for these bikes. Better than the Snidal book, I struggle with that it's too wordy and the drawings are a bit "Timmy aged 2".

The all important question on the gears is..... reckon you'll be able to lift the front wheel? Laughing
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 09:04 - 15 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

wr6133 wrote:

The all important question on the gears is..... reckon you'll be able to lift the front wheel? Laughing


You'll need to ask the clutch.

Wet weight will still be far too heavy for a trials bike. It's a chunky frame with a big lump in it. You could use the swingarm to hold the roof up too. It's how they rolled back in the day though.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 09:49 - 15 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
You'll need to ask the clutch.


Mine says no, with my gearing Laughing

Another I've been wondering on the gearbox. Have you tried H's sealed bearings? I notice on the description they say,

Quote:
By fitting these bearings, the gearbox is sealed, which significantly reduces the possibility of leaks if running with only oil instead of the standard grease and oil mixture.


The wording suggests to me, "this won't work but we'll sell it to you anyway". The optimist though wants to believe.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 18:43 - 15 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 612 has a sealed gearbox and is running EP90 gear oil without any significant leaks.

Equally, the grease has never leaked either so I figure, what am I fixing here?
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 09:44 - 19 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Re-assembly is the reverse of the above."

One of the most oft-repeated lies in workshop manuals.

It's also become apparent there were a couple of steps i did before that were unecessary and slowed the job down. I'll go back and edit these.

Here's the new gear operator selector. It seems to stick out further than the old one ever did which makes me wonder if the old one was defective from the get-go.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eHgt0pYjqKU3z99YBkiSq2F2qI9N26BQCdLG7ajFdujOE9RW4Xk1p_UDorubmJ7LUmOHx1eQ0I27OpK0YhEdTGAmKx1M5Nier2oLt3iqrNcXuujPqfdYRJcmqxJYH7kmJcsSjKf7C61Cq_izjaeIOP=w1529-h860-no

So first step is to get the gears back in. You need to insert the layshaft along with the selector forks and two central gears from the mainshaft as a group.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3e1HCCVSTccP6E8hBlT42wq387aTSIob9KwrX7HNPavX9lHRo1wR-i054sJMYx7Ih6O08ElJiNIM93KgAQ0TpH28AOHun7QiWomnIm-_zHKSmkwQkp4d5OR_9jkl1gyV2G8nhl6ijd4DK0_djsF4305=w1529-h860-no

Once the mainshaft gears are located on the splines of the outer shaft, you can let the layshaft drop down slightly and engage the selector forks with the notches of the gear operator. Then the layshaft can be advanced all the way in and engaged with the bushing at the back (left side) of the gearbox. At this point, the mainshaft can be re-inserted.

It is worth noting that it is perfectly possible to insert the gears with the mainshaft cluster on backwards so make sure the small one is to the outside (right side)... Don't ask! Also check both gears are still captive in the selector fork after you engage the gear operator.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eMQItuL2bN_NIaMUoMtr9EzjRPYJ4HBp_bJN_DiKj6OIuNQMEhnj6ndJvZCmH--mvEBLcOdWSMiJ_zyM1CbcsMeHKr92UGM1-59Sc8y_WN0ptC_4VO6T-avFNS13SIIbmMFJPqrDVf1x7iJdtXkfvM=w1529-h860-no

This bike will be ridden through floods and there is nothing preventing water getting into the outer compartment of the gear casing. You can see the corrosion that has occurred from trapped water on previous pictures. it also caused some corrosion and friction between the kickstart shaft of the gear selector shaft which has the odd side effect of occasionally engaging first gear when you kick the kickstart. I can't stop water getting in, but I can make sure it can get back out with a high-tech modification!
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3e7jhneUqPo9S_D34K0qNPmrd5Shysq-4rIFUWPYip73TD3M6gO5CWemj3ZAbY9bFhDRewyNQa2p4NhYeqXvmGk4SRjhmQwmD5mFMTW2tmJlRTt0juFzXHX33Fc_rQ63adz66J2O41cYYw-gkq0pR8x=w1529-h860-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eUykeVkv7DDwxxu4NF2v83X5pmwwAj_YzoSCWWS_pRsIHR0O_U-cQQJg1zhpYjPopfEi2XmxquvyPghxU2uu5lw7AqVT_tvVOwH1K_qULa9sJr86EpVNZs6V3IWHRVcFZQrNoZZeRk0-EuEx4Pd_x4=w1529-h860-no

A visual inspection of the kickstarter pawl shows it to be in pretty good order. if it's worn, now is a good time to replace it. Here's the whole mechanism reassembled.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cwCvIHKZGWJNZ1VTY41lbR4ZWNZWb31kyyNAKbhnkUbCvXNayTnbl8gIFu4Wi8TqtkyMnPxXefrdY6YtbF30ErIEfwNHIW5wtX5GWk_f9wJCuh01HaDd7OXxFNXkdEgdrS-u0wl34SVeCQXu1Zkes4=w1529-h860-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dJhZl94n7udpFz_yC820OrTgf2YT3a_BUimK7hVBBFgo9Gwnf5veQGOqORBk9s0Vzf8x7tEG-KGJWN_HOuSqSKsU5i0pCbBJKXfgubxR-_W-697O-SoajDNdwO87N0ZPL8_CBmhMMrbzWXc4NGaF3_=w1529-h860-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3f2fZM2ugxnC7sdZbWmldGUzIx8cVKtvq-HwQWPd98WOZmA6YkyNhNeLd9lFAWEIqpnMS8S4cwvqwEsGZSARJ0QRPuTVxdIGioEA2_7tWOqG-gfXDxwStt5BQX6NFHAx_SX9azu0WcCyU-ZcKZ87M3k=w1529-h860-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cbzy2CrK0PSDcIp5v3Iis9He9uh4xQqXV4-kgE5QxxORC_8eJAQbKXBugUVqaMzzgjaftqArqrqnz4Z6VOsIq5gAVkPfhYnjUF-u-SxOBZvQmTenPEWxBeQtdvpAJrxuGcVFm6qa1WP1rxBlhJxxa9=w1529-h860-no

Here's one of the places I made a mistake. See the bolt at the 10 o' clock position to the kickstart shaft in the picture below? Don't remove that. It holds a little crescent-shaped steel detent that acts as both a stop for the kickstart and disengages the pawl from the layshaft. It's a bit of a fanny to get in exactly the right position so it retracts the pawl properly but doesn't foul the shaft itself. I spent a long time fiddling to get it put back!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3f9ZJ-cy2Mrq0-Qr7pG5YFZ0V3A2IuVyr3Kkp3jzbF1TSkqoBjv5Tjpab_81CLoGyKT11DHyzUkSCgBiJxXppLlETVJMWbotFYneo158UXwEFGp0971QZp7ttWbxNg7xEA_m6ieJhz06dUWvnm3uG4z=w1529-h860-no

The gear operator shaft is on the inside of the outer gear case. When reassembling it needs to be rotated so it engages with the end of the gear operator. You can also see the crescent-shaped kickstart detent near the bottom of this picture.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dTCEViqiubi77tOtOo3sNtW3AJ2sgnOhWT6A3Qgus6x3DcCZSAYPiGN6Xs0f6QWQ9m_ozmoe0p_VK7SarIn71Rjyjge_WQzAdWNDxt-msc9WjQJtmYElrGpPo2mtRlZdft08-yvqarrVYoiHM3rKzn=w1529-h860-no

The selector engages on the end of the piece of flat steel in the centre of this picture.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dd2JaSn7eOGYym1hbKgQ6sAJkSvPLPbbTQJhhmqk1JcVtWGNoyE6zn7HAKFrvBrYZyJXe_ZewHvaqIeqahvbADkuOIV074meoIJj1gO2LfK365SnkItlep7YLqgEC5vROf9nbwNgUO-ssK3Ya-qajS=w1529-h860-no

It seems best to have the kickstart shaft inserted into the gearbox cover with it rotated into the fully "up" position (so the pawl is retracted) for reassembly.

The selector shaft needs to be rotated into position as you advance the cover, engaging the kickstart shaft with the end of the layshaft and gently moving the end of the mainshaft into position in its bearing with a finger of your third hand. At the same time try not to dislodge the new gasket.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3e_-d9NgPIe3lBDA6w0kVlV5aph5XMIIq8sUNZ2Cx4n22cZkYJTLnMV2dbbPe0GqmehB5bj_ddgHQN8A3nJmd40FYq54kdEbugyQDWhyAo2cjgLvUPyU_AUl-ax9MCTj1PF8kt3jNb_gSl_cT9MLc4A=w1529-h860-no

The gear operator selector should be screwed in ensuring the slot is paralell to the ground (and therefore the pawl is aligned in its slots). It doesn't go all the way in. If you put a spanner on the end of the gear selector shaft, you should be able to feel how much resistance you are causing, you want enough to hold it in position but not so much as it's stiff.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3ekBJsavjzkot3xudaFD8aBsJiPd6N_V3ql_YZtW0CHBAsxkDNKaQP-StJV88zCpQ8hOijOqwqbRIh554GCcx3OhrOrl4-eG3zER4G4al5bZjfOhPRvfgSxvwuiZVuK1ABBCQd_HJjJhvzf8qm36SU4=w1529-h860-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dgxGpscNTj4-trvnJdog5Pj3uvQQAzBN9TG3REHlKZ4F7XA-d_qtBUa1aY-924rVrgh6gRfoF8b6YDyPps8JgKpQW-1Hth-Qf6Nc8n-9dGsRz63Jd6K_d7ECH1nzGOKdxlJozhaWhvGx9e6OV-6Ceg=w1529-h860-no

Install thye mainshaft oil flinger, tab-washer and nut. Remember the nut has a reverse thread!
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fS5ZJ7ChTW3fxLMI_ZiCM82seDwqSYYZXw6jEYrx7caEgDCimbjgOsLQR90x6g3CP2wtdLdybzSsXb0Q4pGgsKk14V6lcUiewjuV2ytmCng4u_4q3_HwKWtcrExXJIaHUS2QUe2K_Ksbj31-iiQ7lg=w1529-h860-no

Mainshaft cover on witrh the top bolt.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cW2v0J-pps6T89sMDirstpLEJ7kwT4I-3uPm41VMxMCCP25lCdwpb6NlGaWAjMZAFFAzWgp2_d2wZkeCAsrjpATrl3iXNaIJOGrJkpBQXGRUneMSoV8Gge_aKfi5O8ataAOwYp2BJEi6mnFg7xIQ57=w1529-h860-no

Engage the kickstart spring with the hole in the kickstart shaft at the 9 o' clock position. Then rotate it clockwise and hold it in position with trhe bottom mainshaft cover bolt.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3d7z0bdtlA2P0ttMUOlOxTKBfcO0zv8ScTI7JeFiyAth6TeBVfK1Pisl4AgRkiOm1C_INKihLBfJdtSZlynjiIZHD-oQt4ViBjHtF4gYcT9GVrNqyUqGQZS4KseuwuJJKwwMpRLfYvRcTTdRelx-9hv=w1529-h860-no

Loosely attach the adjuster plate assembly using the studs. This has slotted holes which will need the position adjusting.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dr2duYFew3tBLVdDDTg2TLBCAtMryxdqO3nZ68btnOTJV0Oh0PIfYji99xkHeIYz_dp_U6PJVAo3y2bPlnwrQC5AbKXyh89lKgRB2z6O8USS8-2oRKhSEVPqhDU8Sho3ceuN-ews_U4o_171AJyVwn=w1529-h860-no

Slide the foot control lever on ensuring it engages with the sprung tabs on the adjuster plate.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fhMd63H2Qd6E6WYAoIUPVRz3JP_cDl3jG-_67IAYatCj4leNsuH6TnOxD5YgXNfvJVAHLQITXoik3Zgds2-3fjI1rZoxDCNsoyr33qUpkho1W9pUY9J-JBRZkWBjEflpZ5BmKVvzFGyhx4ACDAYWPb=w1529-h860-no

Similarly engage the ratchet assembly into the sprung tab at the top and foot control lever at the bottom and loosely screw the stop-plate to the outside with its two half nuts to hold it in place.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dD-l04E4P06_X8aaPHXpf46byLbfsZUzX3UqxLtq0I2IeR-BY1bmHBV99TQ1OwV4i9T0Q3T04pBfZdeVFDjsUFaTDR2pUdfOfnLiXu7-uudOnAzAASPD6Nr2MqJV4t0-nxLenzhvw_FTZopFdjjNWF=w1529-h860-no

Now adjust the position of the adjuster plate so the "resting" position is roughly in the middle of the stop plate stops. If it is too far one way or the other, it will hit the stop plate before the selector ratchet engages and rotates the shaft. Lock it down by tightening the studs, then tighten the half nuts. This can take a few attempts to get right. The ratchet is also prone to wear and may need replacing if it's not engaging properly.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fPPeOT_nWPmcANHubL6wBPWPDjYHSbL0fZ8O4Z-X3ntS_WFoSKP0B5wvATY2IKyvDB3nFa_puEysaF5tZNobu7F-Lk0BP43j_xwy6X0Lry4blwEKVfXf1iMHISYvmVAJCMnuNQh-Ar_QXSvyL3R-2J=w1529-h860-no

Slide the clutch pushrod (and ball bearing) back in, re-engage the clutch cable, screw the outer cover on and you're done. Check it gets all the gears and that the kickstart works (you'll need to reassemble the primary drive to do this).

I'll admit, I had to take the whole lot apart again becauase I wasn't getting any gears and I'd put the mainshaft gears in the wrong way round! Surprisingly quick to strip and re-assemble second time round though.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 11:42 - 23 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting to know how it rides with the gears fitted. Thanks for the write ups, I've been viewing my gearbox with doom but you've made it all seem nice and simple now.

I'm 50/50 on doing this to mine, though I've just bought a couple more bikes and 11 boxes of parts with a couple of 5 speed boxes so I'm now not sure if I'll keep the 4 speed at all.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 17:42 - 23 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 5-speed boxes are supposed to be really nice. Can't get trials gears for them though.

The only really stressful bit was getting the old gear off the end of the shaft and the old bushing out of the kickstart. There was a real chance of fucking it right up there. Kickstarts shafts are reasonably cheap but mainshafts and layshafts aren't (relatively speaking) .

The rest was just a case of wiggling/fiddling.

I like the 4-speed because it's so horrible. Smile
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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