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ZX6R electrical nightmare

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aaronb74
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Joined: 05 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: 15:57 - 16 Aug 2020    Post subject: ZX6R electrical nightmare Reply with quote

Hi all. I'm hoping someone can make a suggestion as to what the hell is going on with my 2006 ZX6R as there seem to be electrical issues everywhere. It hasn't been out much over the past year (other than back and forth in the garage), mainly due to work at the house blocking the path out. However it felt fine when I did eventually get it out again. At this point I started noticing electrical issues and I'm losing the will to live trying to trace the fault(s).

First, I started having to hold the start button for about 10 seconds or it would cut out as soon as I let go. This has been happening the past couple of months

Over the past couple of weeks, it intermittently wouldn't start (including right after MOT even though it started fine 3 times already that day, then eventually started after I pushed it to the top of a hill (my parents live nearby so I was pushing it to their house). It doesn't even try to crank, and only sometimes can you hear the fuel pump priming. Now it just won't start at all, except from a bump start (once it's going it runs fine).

When it's running and you put the sidestand down it cuts out, then won't start again. This was happening for the past few weeks. I've replaced the sidestand switch but it has made no difference. Did a continuity check on the clutch switch and it was okay. Connector was getting 2 volts (is this about right?)

It's only thrown a code once recently while I've been riding it (camshaft position sensor malfunction, wiring open or short). When I went into Dealer mode 2 to read all stored codes I got 6 in total, though I don't know how long any/all of them have been there

13 - Intake air temperature sensor malfunction, wiring open or short
23 - Camshaft position sensor malfunction, wiring open or short
32 - Subthrottle sensor malfunction, wiring open or short
34 - Exhaust butterfly valve actuator sensor malfunction, wiring open or short (it has a bypass on it due to previous issues so this might be historic)
35 - Immobiliser amplifier malfunction
64 - Exhaust butterfly valve actuator malfunction, wiring open or short (see code 34)

I cleared all the codes, and have been out on the bike since then (bump start) and no codes came up. Granted it was only a 10 minute or so ride.

Can anyone suggest where I might begin to try to sort this out?
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Tankie
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PostPosted: 16:29 - 16 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

First check battery state , and earthing of the engine to frame / battery
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 17:19 - 16 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd check the connector on the ECU is clean and corrosion free.
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Robby
Dirty Old Man



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PostPosted: 17:29 - 16 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

If lots of circuits are misbehaving, suspect the earths. They tend to be shared between circuits.

Make sure the negative lead from the battery is clean at both ends and properly bolted down. I don't know if it bolts to the engine or to the frame on your bike, but it is worth tracking down the points where the wiring loom earths onto the frame and engine and making sure they are clean and well secured.

Also worth checking any connectors you can get to, look for corrosion or evidence of too much heat (black and melted).
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Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



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PostPosted: 21:24 - 16 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valve clearences have got a bit tight.
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stevo123
Nitrous Nuisance



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PostPosted: 16:03 - 17 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the same bike.

As mentioned could be poor earth. They tend to have issues with the fuel pump to loom connector melting. I believe this is due to the fuel strainer blocking up over time and the pump having to work harder.

Failing that strip her down and check the loom visually, maybe rodents have got into it at some point.
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aaronb74
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PostPosted: 07:10 - 18 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers for the suggestions everyone. Will have another look asap but really busy with work just now might be the weekend before I can get to it. I'll post an update on the outcome
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 09:05 - 18 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

When was the last time you put fresh fuel in it?
Seriously, mine sat for a year Crying or Very sad , when I used it, it cut out once or twice, and was a hard starter.
A tank of fresh fuel and a good long run appeared to solve the problem.
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aaronb74
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PostPosted: 18:02 - 18 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

pepperami wrote:
When was the last time you put fresh fuel in it?

15 days ago.

I appreciate the suggestion, but it's not hard to start; it won't even try to crank.
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aaronb74
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PostPosted: 10:36 - 23 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, that didn't go as planned.

On Thursday, I took the tail cowling off to have a look at relays etc, but then got called away. On Saturday morning, I went out, turned the key in ignition and heard the fuel pump priming. I pressed the starter button and it fired up instantly. Didn't have to hold the starter button like I've had to do recently. After letting it run for a while, I put it back together enough take it for a ride, then tried to start it again. Still no issues. Took it out for a test ride along the bypass and back, put the sidestand down expecting it to cut out, but no, still running as well as it has ever done.

So now I'm torn between accepting this miraculous recovery and taking the bike out every chance I get, and thinking it would probably be sensible to take it apart again to try to find the initial cause of the problem to make sure it doesn't happen again and leave me stranded (though at least I know bump starting it works and I have breakdown cover if I get really desperate).

Anyway, thanks everyone for your advice Very Happy
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davebike
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PostPosted: 09:48 - 24 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Battery probibly get it and the charging system tested !
Low/poorly battery can cause all sorts of issues and all sorts of fault codes !
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Old Thread Alert!

There is a gap of 236 days between these two posts...

aaronb74
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PostPosted: 14:48 - 17 Apr 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to resurrect a thread from nearly a year ago, but this bike has nearly destroyed my sanity after the electrical gremlins stopped self-isolating. Thankfully, I think I've finally found a workaround for the issue, if not necessarily "fixed" it.

All was going well so I fitted a new chain and sprockets a few weeks ago, and changed oil, filters and spark plugs. Bike was running well until I put the fairings back on, then it wouldn't start. I took them off again, and it still wouldn't start (not that I expected that to make a difference), though on one attempt the fuel pump primed after a delay and then the bike started fine. I tried refitting the fairings while it was running and, when moving the wiring loom, it cut out and wouldn't start again.

After a lot of faffing about checking wires, connectors, etc, I discovered that the fuel pump connector wasn't getting voltage when turning the key. After more faffing about, I tested it again when the sidestand just happened to be up and this time it got voltage, but it still wouldn't start/crank, except when the clutch was pulled in. It then cut out as soon as side stand was put down. I used the connector from my old sidestand switch as a bypass and now the bike starts every time as long as the clutch is pulled in. I've never in my life tried to ride off with the stand down, so I'm relatively happy with this workaround.

This is where I'm still confused though. Not sure if I have a dodgy neutral switch (continuity was fine on both sidestand switches I had), but the neutral light comes on and goes off exactly as it should. Just wanted to post an update to see if any of the BCF experts could shed any light on any other possibilities I might be missing.

Edit: I should add, the same fault codes came up again just after I serviced it and it wouldn't start. However, they're no longer coming up...
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bikenut
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PostPosted: 15:47 - 17 Apr 2021    Post subject: T Reply with quote

Do the lights etc have a mind if there own when the steering is turned lock to lock ?

Get a wiring diagram, you have a dmm.
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jeffyjeff
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PostPosted: 20:23 - 17 Apr 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

You got the bike started with the old switch connector; does it still run when you put it into gear? Can you ride it?
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aaronb74
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PostPosted: 11:57 - 18 Apr 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

No issues with the lights when turning lock to lock.

I cut the connector off my old switch and used it as a jumper, so bike always thinks the stand is up. It goes into gear and runs normally (haven't road tested it yet but seems okay on driveway). It will only start with the clutch lever pulled in, so the neutral switch is my next suspect for a fault (though neutral light works as it's supposed to), but I'm tempted to leave as is for now (for the next few weeks at least), rather than risk making it worse.
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bikenut
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PostPosted: 13:15 - 18 Apr 2021    Post subject: T Reply with quote

You said that when refitting the fairing and moving the loom, the engine cut out and refused to start....

So if s the loom strianed and pulling on a connection ? Or is there a make/break contact in the loom, close to where it flexis when the steering is turned ?

Usually lights etc miss behave when this happens...as well as other stuff...got a wiring diagram yet ?
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jeffyjeff
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PostPosted: 01:39 - 19 Apr 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

aaronb74 wrote:
I cut the connector off my old switch and used it as a jumper, so bike always thinks the stand is up. It goes into gear and runs normally (haven't road tested it yet but seems okay on driveway).

Odd that it only starts with the clutch lever pulled in. The only condition I can think of that requires clutch pull is bike in gear. Normally, the bike should start in neutral even with the side stand down. This suggests a ground in the starter interlock circuit, independent of the switch and neutral light.
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bikenut
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PostPosted: 07:41 - 19 Apr 2021    Post subject: T Reply with quote

A wiring diagram will show the layout, if diodes are involved or a black box....etc.

Still, he knows he would benefit from a diagram...

Have you got one yet dude ?
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Nutty
Two Stroke Sniffer



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PostPosted: 08:24 - 19 Apr 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe have a look at the diode circuit
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aaronb74
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PostPosted: 20:29 - 20 Apr 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. I do have a wiring diagram and will print out the diagram above. I understand the basics of electrical fault finding, but wouldn't consider myself an expert by any means (and more knowledgeable people aren't allowed to visit my house, lol), so apologies in advance if I say stupid things Embarassed .

I had a good look at most - though admittedly not all - of the loom, particularly around the cluster of connectors at the front, where the problem seemed to originate, and going back to under the seat (though it got more difficult from there with all the engine sensor wires being wrapped separately and feeding into it). For the most part, the wiring looked to be in good condition, as did the connectors. No parts of the loom were strained, but it looks to have been routed incorrectly at some point, presumably when it was in the garage for an electrical issue many years ago. Instead of following the cable tie points on the frame, it was hanging down slightly and went over the radiator (now restored to the correct place). There were a few bits of the loom where wires seemed to be spliced together/go off in different directions, but I couldn't tell if these were factory jobs or the previous owner's DIY work (the bike was 4 years old when I bought it and only modification was heated grips, but wiring for those is separate). These sections were reasonably well insulated, though I was surprised at just how much bare ware there was under the insulation. I can't recall off the top of my head which wires they were (one may have been connected to the kill switch...).

The only connector that was a bit iffy was (unless I misread the wiring diagram) the lap timer. All others appeared clean and wires looked good

The only earth point I could see on the loom was onto the top of the engine, which looked absolutely fine...

I'll try to have another look this weekend and update you on my findings.
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bikenut
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PostPosted: 08:23 - 21 Apr 2021    Post subject: T Reply with quote

I like and tend to run additional earth wires from the frame up to the headlamp bowl, as the earth wire in the loom effectively handles all the current used on the front end.

A convenient location on the frame close to the front terminating on metalwork in the headlamp bowl and then feeders tapping into earth connections in the headlamp bowl.

I don't have earth problems.
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