Oil thread.

[Pigeon]

In case anyone finds it of use.

This site has lots of info
https://www.mototribology.com/articles/jaso-explained-part-1/

Including a link to a list of officially registered JASO products:
https://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV_LIST.pdf
Perhaps unsurprisingly, Lube-Tech and Westways are not on there. That does not mean they 100% aren't JASO, but you take your choice.


Taken from (but tweaked a little)
https://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/JASO_MA_JASO_MB.php

[Snod Blatter]

[Rogerborg]

[Islander]

I use Comma Eurolite semi synth. Cheap and does what it's supposed to. Why pay all that extra?

[Beehive Bedlam]

I normally use car euro parts Triple qx 10/40 AND probably will again. I just get all excited when it's oil time change and like read what other people use.

[Nobby the Bastard]

[Pigeon]

[NJD]

[Matt B]

[NJD]

[P.]

I've used nothing but basic 10w40. I don't really care and nothing has broken but I change mine often. Very often.

[Pigeon]

Many of the oil specifications that are approved for use in the JASO-MAx spec are diesel specifications (ACEA B1, B3, B4, B5, C2, C3, C4)

For example, ACEA B3/B4 stipulate a minimum High Temp High Shear (HTHS) rating of 3.5 (viscosity at 150c).
And a Total Base Number (TBN - Very basic explanation, capacity to control deposits and acidic products causing corrosive wear) of 10.

The JASO-MA2 spec calls for HTHS of >= 2.9 and no TBN limit.
It also allows API-SM/SN, which as mentioned, have lowered the ZDDP content from previous standards and got some people excited.

Castrol Power Racing 10w40 has HTHS "min of 2.9" and TBN 9.8

HTHS results above 2.4 are desirable to avoid bearing wear.

So on the face of it, JASO-MA is not a lot more than an add-on-specification that measures friction. And actually, the underlying oil within the JASO-MA approved product is also important when considering what type of bike + conditions + use.

As an example, MOTUL 7100 5w40 is 100% Ester and as such, it adheres to positively charged metal surfaces. So it helps counteract some of the negative aspects of the API-SM/N standards which it claims to meet.

But one could stick to API SL with ACEA B3/B4 and get a cheaper alternative. Or get the benefits of API SN, if you can confirm ZDDP levels are more favourable than the standard (if you consider that important or not).

In the end, your still placing a lot of faith in the claims (either on the label, TDS/PDS or emails etc).

Fuchs Titan syn MC 10w40 - 5L for £19 seems to fit the bill nicely.
Fuchs Titan Supersyn 5w40 - 5L for £23 also excellent and similar to Shell Helix Ultra it would seem (both meet the Porsche A40 spec too (203 hours of engine thrashing and wear measurements)).

As mentioned, I'll choose Shell Advance Ultra 4 JASO-MA API-SL oil for my Striple. But my SV is getting cheaper, but branded B3/B4 stuff (ie with manufacturers approvals such as BMW LL01, Porsche A40, VW502 & 505 and Mercedes 229.3 & 229.5 because these are the checks that A3,B4 has been met (although not full proof of course)).

[Nobby the Bastard]

[talkToTheHat]

But shell Advance AX7 and Advance Ultra are both MA2. If you have AX7 or Ultra that is not MA2 then you have old product or fake product. Ultra has been MA2 since at least 2012, and i'm reasonably sure the AX7 bought from a forecourt in 2012, the remains of which reside under she-who-is-occaisonally-consulted's sink.

I like the Ultra. It's nearly clear and has little odour. Good clutch and gearshift feel. Really good for getting old sewing machines running again. Pours more easily at room temperature than motul.

I have been sticking to the motul for consistency, if my local independant drops the oil, motul goes back in, if i put shell in at my next change it feels and smells different and I find it harder to notice if something doesn't feel right.
____________________
Bandit. does. everything.

[Islander]

[Matt B]

[Pigeon]

[talkToTheHat]

If you handled both you'd say 5100 was more viscous but the ultra was smoother. The ultra does not seem as thickmas its viscosity rating and it feels very smoot. The 5100 feels thick. Gearshifts are cushioned and clutch action is very progressive. The ultra feels smooth, gearshifts are slick and there's a more pronounced in/slip/out feeling to the clutch with good varience in the slip zone but more defiend transitions. I have a preference for the ultra but a stronger preference for not messing with how the bike feels by swapping brands depending on whether i did the oil or the garage did. Compare ultra to motul 7100 or 300v for a fairer comparison against closer specs.
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Bandit. does. everything.

[Matt B]

[Pigeon]

[talkToTheHat]

Note that untill the USA's Endagered Species Act and subsequently the international (almost) ban on whale hunting, Sperm oil was a common friction additive. This was a bigger problem for automatic transmissions, particularly those running early dexron. Sperm is not good in high performance engines as it denatures at high temperatures.
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Bandit. does. everything.

[Pigeon]

[Genseric3D]

While searching for the difference between JASO standards I have found this info

''In 2006, MA1 and MA2 were added as extra categories within the JASO MA specification. The main difference between these two categories is the higher friction performance MA2 oils are delivering. This meant that from 2006 on, motor oils that meet the T903:2006 standard can be divided into four specifications for 4-stroke motorcycle oils:

JASO MA: This is the standard specification for oils that are used within one oil system (where the engine, gearbox and clutch use the same oil). These oils don’t contain any friction modifiers.
JASO MA1: This is a lower standard specification for motorcycles that require different oils for the engine, gearbox and clutch.
JASO MA2: This is a higher standard specification for modern motorcycles. These oils are suitable for use in motorcycles that have catalytic converters in the exhaust system.
JASO MB: This is a lower standard specification for scooter engines.
For an oil to meet any of the above mentioned JASO specifications, it has to meet at least one of the following quality levels:

API SG, SH, SJ, SL, SM
ILSAC GF-1, GF-2, GF-3
ACEA A1/B1, A3/B3, A3/B4, A5/B5, C2, C3
Although the above motorcycle oil specifications are by far the most important and worldwide recognised, JASO already introduced a rating system for 2-stroke oils in 1994. The tolerances of modern 2-stroke motorcycles and scooters are much smaller and also require an oil that generates less ash.

The JASO 2-stroke oil classifications are:
JASO FA: This is the lowest specification that tests lubrication capability, detergency, initial torque, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking. This specification has been officially declared obsolete in 2005 although it is still being used.
JASO FB: This specification is slightly higher than JASO FA and tests the same characteristics. It requires increased lubrication capability, detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking. It corresponds with ISO Global Specification EGB.
JASO FC: This specification requires the same results for the tests of lubrication capability and initial torque as JASO FB but has higher standards for detergency and exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking. It corresponds with ISO Global Specification EGC.
JASO FD: This specification has the same standards as JASO FC except for a higher detergency requirement. It corresponds with ISO Global Specification EGD.
Always check the owner’s manual to see which specification is required. If both an API and JASO MA specification are listed, make sure you pick an oil that qualifies for both specifications.

Apart from the above described worldwide recognised specifications JASO also defined the following (partly with API or ACEA correlating) oil specifications.

JASO DL-1: An oil specially designed for Light Duty Diesel Engines equipped with exhaust after treatment devices.
JASO DH-1: A high sulphated ash oil designed for the lubrication of Heavy Duty Diesel Engines, not suitable for exhaust after treatment devices.
JASO DH-2: A low sulphated ash oil designed for the lubrication of Heavy Duty Diesel Engines, particularly when equipped with exhaust after treatment devices.
JASO GLV-1: An ultra-low viscosity, fuel saving, passenger car engine oil.
JASO 315-1A: A specification defining a Dexron Vi automatic transmission fluid type. This specification is now renamed to JASO 1-A.''
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When all of this is over , the world won't be the same