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to v or not to v
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PostPosted: 18:37 - 17 May 2021    Post subject: fuel treatments Reply with quote

snake oil or Cuprinol?

would it be worth using something like Wynns or Redex fuel treatments on an old engine, or are they just gimmicks?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 19:26 - 17 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Better off doing an Italian tuneup.

Or getting a plant sprayer/mister and spraying a mist into the intake when the engine is running.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 19:46 - 17 May 2021    Post subject: Re: fuel treatments Reply with quote

to v or not to v wrote:
snake oil or Cuprinol?

would it be worth using something like Wynns or Redex fuel treatments on an old engine, or are they just gimmicks?


Once an engine is far gone enough to need one of those treatments, you really need to strip it and clean it to fix it. There might be a sweet spot juuust before the problem is noticeable where the treatment might help, but the irony is you'd never tell without stripping the engine or carbs.

So, no. Unless you've got an old bike and fancy giving it a go I wouldn't bother. I've used redex in tonnes of bikes and have I ever seen an effect? No, not really.
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to v or not to v
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PostPosted: 21:07 - 17 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

i got carried away reading all the positive reviews on amazon.
with all the cleaning additives in fuel these days, i did think it was probably unnecessary.
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Hong Kong Phooey
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PostPosted: 15:37 - 18 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

to v or not to v wrote:
all the positive reviews on amazon.


Well there's your problem. Sales sites with shill reviews are getting worse.

What's up with the bike?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 16:10 - 18 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Better off doing an Italian tuneup.

Or getting a plant sprayer/mister and spraying a mist into the intake when the engine is running.


I missed out saying a mist of water when posting....
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Tdibs
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PostPosted: 16:58 - 18 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whats actually the problem?
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to v or not to v
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PostPosted: 18:41 - 18 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

no problems with the bike, just read to many reviews of smoother running engines and improved mpg after using the stuff.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 18:44 - 18 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arrow Fuel additive to combat carb icing Thumbs Up

Arrow Fuel additive to “stabilise” petrol on storage - not sure, I use the same stuff as above (Silkolene Pro-FST) but I also reckon I’ve left a bike for months without and the petrol didn’t “go off.” I’ve got a petrol-powered generator which isn’t used often and that starts and runs fine on what’s been left in the tank.

Arrow fuel additive for de-coking/ morpowah! Snake oil.
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 18:56 - 18 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shifty
Both my bikes (when running) are old.
So if I occasionally put the wrong sort of unleaded in my tank cos they've both got the same damn number on them at the pump ... then its okay, now and then?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 19:27 - 18 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Octane isn't additives, it's the temperature that the fuel self ignites.

I can't see your harley having much use for super unleaded over normal 93 ron.
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weasley
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PostPosted: 19:33 - 18 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Normal is 95. Putting a higher RON in there won’t harm anything but your bank balance. The other numbers on the pump are probably BS EN 228, which is just the specification standard used to define the testing and limits of the fuel.

Aftermarket additives... it’s a no from me.
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jeffyjeff
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PostPosted: 01:00 - 19 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

hellkat wrote:
Shifty
Both my bikes (when running) are old.
So if I occasionally put the wrong sort of unleaded in my tank cos they've both got the same damn number on them at the pump ... then its okay, now and then?

Won't hurt, especially in colder weather. In hot weather you might experience spark knock, especially when riding hard. If that happens, back off the throttle a little. Sportsters have wimpy tanks anyway, so if you get the wrong grade in it, it won't be long before you fill it up again. Wink
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steve the grease
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PostPosted: 01:05 - 19 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

My old bike runs a lot better on Shell V power compared with supermarket/ local garage fuel, idles from cold for a start ( probably more volatile). It claims to clean. It's a few pence a litre dearer than regular fuel. You could run a tank through, the price difference would be a lot less than a can of Redex or whatever.
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Tdibs
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PostPosted: 11:42 - 19 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would be interesting to see some real scientific testing of this, esp for older carb bikes without a ECU etc.
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Robby
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PostPosted: 12:17 - 19 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having pulled a few engines apart over the years, the only ones with serious carb buildup (which these fuel treatments are meant to fix) are the ones that had fairly major fuelling problems over thousands of miles. Running rich due to "tuning" carried out by people who didn't know what they were doing.

I have also seen it in diesels with choked up emissions control systems, where the problem is a lack of maintenance or poor design in the first place.

Only other place I've seen serious carbon buildup is in very old lawnmower engines with very low compression as standard, where they need to run rich to run at all and oil is allowed (or encouraged) to get everywhere.

If the carbon building up serious enough to cause a problem, I would want to strip the engine and remove it properly - not do anything that risks chunks of it breaking off and rattling around the combustion chamber.

All that said, chances are your bikes doesn't need it, but it won't cause any damage. If you feel better about dropping it in the tank from time to time, go ahead.
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 12:19 - 19 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many years ago I added some Redex to a slightly asthmatic carbureted mk2 Astra; perhaps coincidence, but it appears to loosen crud from somewhere in the fuel system which subsequently blocked up the carb completely. A lot of time was then spent cleaning everything out . . . I've avoided any such additives ever since.
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Hong Kong Phooey
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PostPosted: 23:10 - 19 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I added a FULL bottle of Redex to each tank when I first got the CBR, it cured the low speed stuttering. Naturally I stripped, cleaned, adjusted, and balanced the carbs, new fuel filter, no difference.

As 97.4% of carb problems are electrical, it was obviously one of the plug coils.

Running a dozen bottles of Redex through the fuel system, you'd have thought the carbs would have been spotless, but a couple of the jets were partiality blocked, and the usual furred up brass was still present.

I've only noticed high RON fuel ratings make a performance difference on highly tuned turbo vehicles with knock sensors. They can control ignition advance to the point of knock, then reduce it slightly. A low stressed engine on a commuter bike doesn't get a knock sensor for a reason, and will run on any fuel all day long without knocking, even on the hottest days, as the cooling system maintains the correct operating range.

With 10% ethanol fuels (clearly labelled as E10 on the pump) are due to go into wider circulation, if you're leaving an older bike standing around, you might notice the higher absorption of moisture and subsequent separation. This is an appropriate case for dumping extra cash in the tank, as to which additive I don't think any of them are better than sticking with E5 where possible.

At the moment Shell (for example) have up to 5% ethanol in their regular and premium petrol. In future E5 might only be available in the premium nozzle, purely speculating here, but this would still be the cheaper option, rather than buying an extra bottle of unknown liquid to put in.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 01:53 - 20 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hong Kong Phooey wrote:
In future E5 might only be available in the premium nozzle.


From September this year, E5 will be available at the super unleaded pumps only. Over the longer term, who knows.
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 10:02 - 20 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

steve the grease wrote:
( probably more volatile)


No it's less volatile that's the whole point it takes more compression before detonating.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 19:27 - 20 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only additive I use is Yamaha Fuel Stabilizer when I leave the bikes for a long time when at work. Possible two to three months.
I normally top the tanks and add a cap full or two to the tanks.
It doesn't affect performance but it 'supposed to' help reduce the fuel breaking down.

I don't know if it does...

Any other additve is snake oil. Expensive snake oil.

Even if they do increase fuel performance, the extra performance would have to mean the additive was effectively free. But they can't provide that.
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GettinBetter
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PostPosted: 21:49 - 20 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every year I buy a BG Products kit of treatments (for the car anyway) will do the same for the bike when I get it.

The kit consists of:
1. An engine flush.
2 An Oil additive.
3. A fuel treatment.

Had the suppliers come round to my workshop for a couple of hours while they demonstrated their wares. Now I'm a sceptic when it comes to additives but the various demos the did on my engines were very impressive. I've been using them ever since.

Basically, the flush is added for 30/40 mins prior to draining, and losens all the thick sludge in the remote spots that start collecting gunge. This I've seen the results of, after removing the sump, the innards were absolutely spotless.

The Oil treatment is added to the new oil, supposedly prevents oil thining prematurely, although I can't vouch for this as my oil doesn't last that long, (after 200K it tends use a bit of oil).

The fuel treatment loosens soot, from the carb through to the combustion chamber, valve ports, piston crown, and rings and effectively does a complete decoke. I put a tin in to a 70'ish litre tank, and by the time I've used the tank up, the note of the engine is noticably different, in a good way, it also prevents the growth of bacteria in standing fuel.

Kits are available for both diesel and petrol.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 23:23 - 20 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

GettinBetter wrote:
Every year I buy a BG Products kit of treatments (for the car anyway) will do the same for the bike when I get it.

The kit consists of:
1. An engine flush.
2 An Oil additive.
3. A fuel treatment.

Had the suppliers come round to my workshop for a couple of hours while they demonstrated their wares. Now I'm a sceptic when it comes to additives but the various demos the did on my engines were very impressive. I've been using them ever since.

Basically, the flush is added for 30/40 mins prior to draining, and losens all the thick sludge in the remote spots that start collecting gunge. This I've seen the results of, after removing the sump, the innards were absolutely spotless.

The Oil treatment is added to the new oil, supposedly prevents oil thining prematurely, although I can't vouch for this as my oil doesn't last that long, (after 200K it tends use a bit of oil).

The fuel treatment loosens soot, from the carb through to the combustion chamber, valve ports, piston crown, and rings and effectively does a complete decoke. I put a tin in to a 70'ish litre tank, and by the time I've used the tank up, the note of the engine is noticably different, in a good way, it also prevents the growth of bacteria in standing fuel.

Kits are available for both diesel and petrol.


The shower I work for use an additional engine oil filtration system.
It has a spun fibre filter medium and a time release TBN booster.
Normal change is about 500 running hours.
With the filter system we see change due (using oil analysis) at 2000+ running hours.

It costs $500/ filter.
Filter replaced every 500 hours.
Oil costs $1000/ change.

It saves some maintenance time (engines can be online longer without stop for service.)

When the additional filter is changed the engine OEM filters are also changed.

We do not notice any detrimental effects on engine performance or wear.
Been using the system across the international engine fleet for about 20 years.

With regards to oil additive systems.
Waste of money.
Modern Engine oils have additive packages to reduce engine wear by helping oil performance.
Reducing effects of oxidation, high temperature, protection from acidification, cleaning and protection of viscosity.

Adding extra additive is Hocus-Pocus.

A bit like people who get their knickers in a twist over an egg cup full of oil that stays in the engine when draining. And let it drop drip drip for 30mins.

No need. Drop the oil, replace the filter, shove the bung back in (new washer/gasket/seal) fill the Hoowur with new oil. Jobbie Jobbied.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 01:03 - 21 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:


Arrow Fuel additive to “stabilise” petrol on storage - not sure, I use the same stuff as above (Silkolene Pro-FST) but I also reckon I’ve left a bike for months without and the petrol didn’t “go off.” I’ve got a petrol-powered generator which isn’t used often and that starts and runs fine on what’s been left in the tank.


Bike left sitting in the shed for nearly two years, no fuel treatments used. Charged battery, started easily and ran smoothly from the off. That's not to say I think that will last forever...
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 01:23 - 21 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

steve the grease wrote:
My old bike runs a lot better on Shell V power compared with supermarket/ local garage fuel, idles from cold for a start ( probably more volatile). It claims to clean. It's a few pence a litre dearer than regular fuel. You could run a tank through, the price difference would be a lot less than a can of Redex or whatever.


I have found Fazer FZS1000s generally run a bit smoother on this. Coming from just me, that's perhaps anecdotal, but I have heard others report similar.
A very well-respected mechanic I used to go to also recommended it, and not just for mild cases of rough running that were otherwise difficult to pin down. He suggested using it all the time.
One bike shop I worked for, whose workshop also had a pretty good reputation, also said it seemed to have some efficacy on Yamahas of that period (2000s-ish) generally.
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