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Islander |
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Islander World Chat Champion
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mentalboy |
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mentalboy World Chat Champion
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Polarbear |
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Nobby the Bastard |
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Nobby the Bastard Harley Gaydar
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Islander |
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Islander World Chat Champion
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Posted: 13:08 - 18 May 2021 Post subject: |
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Polarbear wrote: | Islander wrote: |
Erm that wouldn't be ascribed to Covid.
Also, if someone has an underlying health condition and under non-pandemic conditions could expect many years of normal productive life, catches Covid and the underlying health condition exacerbates it and they die, the cause was still covid. |
You're probably right but reading the 'proof' clauses I'm not sure it is as cut and dried as you indicate.
All deaths with a positive specimen (including at post-mortem) are counted regardless of the cause of death, and then restricted based on the time frames listed above.
Note the 'regardless of cause of death' according to that statement and only restricted on time frame.
From PHE.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/916035/RA_Technical_Summary_-_PHE_Data_Series_COVID_19_Deaths_20200812.pdf |
I would have thought that the only reason for testing post mortem would be if it were clearly a respiratory cause of death rather than bus tyre tracks but it is a bit more nuanced than that.
Full quote from document above:
"There are 2 definitions of a death in a person with COVID-19 in England, one broader measure and one measure reflecting current trends:
1) A death in a person with a laboratory-confirmed positive COVID-19 and either:
died within (equal to or less than) 60 days of the first specimen date
or
died more than 60 days after the first specimen date, only if COVID-19 is mentioned on the death certificate
2) A death in a person with a laboratory-confirmed positive COVID-19 test and died within (equal to or less than) 28 days of the first positive specimen date.
The daily number represents new deaths reported to PHE in the 24 hours up to 5pm the previous day. Report date does not necessarily equate to date of death as it may take up to a week for deaths to be reported to PHE.
The PHE data series does not include deaths where COVID-19 is mentioned on the death certificate but a laboratory test was not carried out or failed. All deaths with a positive specimen (including at post-mortem) are counted regardless of the cause of death, and then restricted based on the time frames listed above. This aims to provide
the most comprehensive measure of mortality burden possible."
Reading through the paper, it's clear that the aim is to capture covid related deaths as accurately as possible. We're talking about clinicians here and they're going to want accurate figures.
I'm pretty sure that 'regardless of the cause of death' means disease, When a doctor signs a death certificate, they have to state a primary cause of death. Now it may be that someone dies a 'normal' cardiac death in their sleep but has a significant underlying condition. The rules they follow mean that the underlying condition will be stated on the certificate as a primary cause rather than using the vague 'natural causes'. I had this explained to me by my GP when my mother died a few years back. She died in her sleep but had vascular dementia and that was the cause given on the death certificate. |
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 14:27 - 18 May 2021 Post subject: |
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Islander wrote: |
Yes they have. Full double blinded trials. They were all granted emergency approval for use. |
No, not FULL trials, because FULL trials are normally carried out over a much longer term. The time period itself is usually part of a trial to detect any long-term effects. We do not know about whether there will be any yet, because the long term normally studied hasn't happened.
"Emergency" approval I'd guess was just the forgoing of the long term aspect of trials, which can be equally as important as short term ones. A risk has been taken. All choices have associated risk of one kind or another where health matters are concerned. The individual must judge for themselves what level of risk there is to the choices they make after consideration of the advice and information given.
If you are advised to have a treatment or operation in normal circumstances, even whether it is considered to be potentially life saving, you still have the choice of whether to go ahead with it or not. I don't think anything should change in the case of Covid vaccinations. ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
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MCN |
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 14:34 - 18 May 2021 Post subject: |
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Nobby the Bastard wrote: | You could just look at the excess deaths since COVID started compared to the average.
Weill over 100,000 and nothing attributed to flu in the same period.... |
Less than the flu wave of 1951 apparently. It's really not that many in a population of 60+ million. These excess mortality causes come around now and again. They generally don't stay forever, treated or otherwise.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3294686/
What has been lost this time around is perspective. ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
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Nobby the Bastard |
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Nobby the Bastard Harley Gaydar
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 14:39 - 18 May 2021 Post subject: |
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Nobby the Bastard wrote: | Unless you are found to be mentally incapable of making a decision by a court. In addition courts can also make the decision on behalf of children. |
Barely worth mentioning. ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
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MCN |
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 14:52 - 18 May 2021 Post subject: |
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MCN wrote: |
If one has prostrate cancer.
Is then hit by a bus and killed.
One won't have died of prostrate cancer. |
Presumably the cancer just caused the lying in the path of the bus, but the bus hitting them caused the death? ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
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Islander |
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Islander World Chat Champion
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Islander |
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Islander |
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 15:24 - 18 May 2021 Post subject: |
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Islander wrote: | chickenstrip wrote: |
No, not FULL trials, because FULL trials are normally carried out over a much longer term. The time period itself is usually part of a trial to detect any long-term effects. We do not know about whether there will be any yet, because the long term normally studied hasn't happened. |
Read again. Full double blinded trials. Those phases of the trials were indeed extensive and full. |
You finally specified; well done!
But FULL trials still include the long term. We do not know whether there will be any adverse effects at a later date. Or indeed, currently unsuspected positive benefits. ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
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Islander |
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Islander World Chat Champion
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Islander |
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 15:41 - 18 May 2021 Post subject: |
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MCN wrote: | chickenstrip wrote: |
You finally specified; well done!
But FULL trials still include the long term. We do not know whether there will be any adverse effects at a later date. Or indeed, currently unsuspected positive benefits. |
Well just to be safe, since I've been vaccinated, Ive cancelled my telly licence and have lined my crashing helmet with Bacofoil.
They'll not get me with their 5G VHF. |
Scotland has Comrade Sturgeon; Covid is insignificant by comparison ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 15:42 - 18 May 2021 Post subject: |
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Islander wrote: |
I specified in the original post if you read it correctly |
In which case I apologise. I have not yet found reason to more than skim read your posts ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
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Islander |
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Islander World Chat Champion
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Posted: 17:47 - 18 May 2021 Post subject: |
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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Posted: 12:52 - 19 May 2021 Post subject: |
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All the bleeding hearts are saying we HAVE to give our vaccines away to the poor countries. Well fine but some of them can't even use what they have already.
Malawi burns thousands of Covid-19 vaccine doses
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-57168841 ____________________ Triumph Trophy Launch Edition |
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ThatDippyTwat |
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ThatDippyTwat World Chat Champion
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 2 years, 341 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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