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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 08:34 - 21 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only additive I have ever used is Marine 16 to kill diesel bug in marine engines and you wont get that in bikes Laughing

When I was at sea I'd leave my bikes for up to eight months and the petrol was fine when I got back.

I do like the smell of Redex in old classic bikes though. I doubt it does much but it's up there with 2 smoke and Zen perfume on my erotic smells list. Embarassed
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MCN
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PostPosted: 11:11 - 21 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
steve the grease wrote:
My old bike runs a lot better on Shell V power compared with supermarket/ local garage fuel, idles from cold for a start ( probably more volatile). It claims to clean. It's a few pence a litre dearer than regular fuel. You could run a tank through, the price difference would be a lot less than a can of Redex or whatever.


I have found Fazer FZS1000s generally run a bit smoother on this. Coming from just me, that's perhaps anecdotal, but I have heard others report similar.
A very well-respected mechanic I used to go to also recommended it, and not just for mild cases of rough running that were otherwise difficult to pin down. He suggested using it all the time.
One bike shop I worked for, whose workshop also had a pretty good reputation, also said it seemed to have some efficacy on Yamahas of that period (2000s-ish) generally.


Fking Homeopathy of Hydrocarbons now?

It's a lot like the Coke v Pepsi challenge.

There's probably Eff all difference in the product and more in the marketing.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 12:32 - 21 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:


I have found Fazer FZS1000s generally run a bit smoother on this. Coming from just me, that's perhaps anecdotal, but I have heard others report similar.
A very well-respected mechanic I used to go to also recommended it, and not just for mild cases of rough running that were otherwise difficult to pin down. He suggested using it all the time.
One bike shop I worked for, whose workshop also had a pretty good reputation, also said it seemed to have some efficacy on Yamahas of that period (2000s-ish) generally.


Fking Homeopathy of Hydrocarbons now?

It's a lot like the Coke v Pepsi challenge.

There's probably Eff all difference in the product and more in the marketing.


I can only state my experience. I am not forcing anyone to try it. I'm sorry it makes you angry.
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GettinBetter
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PostPosted: 18:21 - 21 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
....With regards to oil additive systems.
Waste of money.
Modern Engine oils have additive packages to reduce engine wear by helping oil performance.
Reducing effects of oxidation, high temperature, protection from acidification, cleaning and protection of viscosity....


You know nothing John Snow.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 18:45 - 21 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

GettinBetter wrote:
by the time I've used the tank up, the note of the engine is noticably different, in a good way,

Laughing Can you hum it for us?
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Tdibs
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PostPosted: 23:22 - 21 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

I left the fazer 1000 with a full tank of e5 in it for roughly 5 months over our winter period. Started and ran as usual after bringing it out of hibernation. Noticed no depreciable decline in economy or leaking hoses after that period either. We have seen some types of filters die quickly to the eth though, really need better data on what survives and what does not long term.

Ive been guilty of 'it runs better on vpower' myself, after pulling out from storage, but I would be kidding myself if I honestly believed it was actually doing anything without some scientific proof.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 23:55 - 21 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not guilty of anything other than stating my own experience on the matter.
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GettinBetter
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PostPosted: 16:43 - 22 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
I'm not guilty of anything other than stating my own experience on the matter.


Me too, and I think that was the point of the OP's question.

My experience involves partially stripping, the use of endoscopic camera useage, to prove results during initial testing. As a sceptic I was convinced, and that as they say is good enough for me.

Obviously there is rubbish out there, but I only use one makers product.

Do believe the fuel seller put additives in the fuel? Yes I do, but barely enough to make it work, marketable, and their advertising legal.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 17:05 - 22 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

People are probably reading too much into what I'm saying anyway. I tend to favour VPower when it's convenient, but don't hunt for a Shell garage when I need to refuel. Since the tuning mods were done to my bike, it runs a lot better anyway. Apparently it could be even better if I added a 3 or 4 degree ignition advancer (or modified the existing plate to achieve the same - it's simple enough). Maybe if I tried it, I'd notice a difference, but I don't notice anything that suggests a need for it.

With the tuning that has been done, initially it had some material taken out from the inside bottom of the carb rubbers, block side, which removed a 'lip' conceivably interrupting smooth intake flow a little, the idea to increase efficiency to the max. Some say it makes a noticeable difference. But when I got this bike, I swapped the modified carbs from the last one, but not those carb rubbers, since the ones that came on this bike were in much better general condition. Can't say I noticed any loss by not doing so.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 19:10 - 22 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only was to check if an additive does anything is to stick the bike on a dynometer and.examine the power curve.

Endoscope, wtf? Sticking one in would make your arse hurt so no chance of using one to examine jets. Carbon deposits on pistons won't build up any appreciable amount from just using one tank of fuel.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 19:35 - 22 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Carbon deposits on pistons won't build up any appreciable amount from just using one tank of fuel.


Yeah, it does make me wonder. According to Shell, VPower's only claim is to have cleaning additives, so you wouldn't expect any kind of instant results. But there you go, that's what I thought when I was using it. That was on stock bikes, which did have a little glitch at low revs. I'd like to try it again, since I haven't refuelled with it for some time now, but not riding anymore, so I can't Sad

Btw, is there only one size of endoscope? Or is it just that Nobby likes lube? Laughing
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MCN
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PostPosted: 20:28 - 22 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carbon deposits on a modern engine running on modern fuels are a negligible concern.
Auld shitty Engines that were clashed together by the OEM and were probably overloaded and abused would eventually start to burn oil as wear increased.
70k miles was about a good point to overhaul.
Modern engines can easily do twice that before overhaul (If worth it).
Fuel additives will only be worth while if they increase range/power.
And there are Hee-Haw additives on the market that provide any cash benefit. And probably do not even recovery the cost of addition to the tank or the phaphery involved.
Modern Fuels DO contain additives that older fuels did not have. The additives are there for many reasons.
One reason may be simply to discourage some folk from drinking it. Rolling Eyes
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 21:20 - 22 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
Carbon deposits on a modern engine running on modern fuels are a negligible concern.
Auld shitty Engines that were clashed together by the OEM and were probably overloaded and abused would eventually start to burn oil as wear increased.
70k miles was about a good point to overhaul.


I remember a magazine article from years ago where they stripped down a GS550 engine (kind of dates it) with that kind of mileage, perhaps more, and found next to no build up of any kind of deposits, and minimal signs of wear.

Similarly, I remember another article with, I think it was a ZX6R, where they ran it on full throttle for hours with no oil in it, and it didn't seize up. They just gave up the experiment when they got bored with it.
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GettinBetter
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PostPosted: 09:08 - 23 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
... Carbon deposits on pistons won't build up any appreciable amount from just using one tank of fuel.


Brains of a fucking rocking horse..

The build up is already there, from a years worth of fuel being shoved through the system. Brick Wall

First time I ever used it involved taking the exhaust manifold off allowing access to the exhaust ports for visual using scope. Endoscope also goes down the plug hole for piston crown & surround inspection BEFORE additives added. Run engine with fuel additives, full tank took me just over a week. Back in the workshop for recheck, to see before and after results.

I use the Engine Flush, Oil Treatment & Fuel Teatment (petrol versions) once annually.

The product I mentioned have been tried and tested by ME, and that's all I care about.

Run for another year then, do the obligatory oil & filter change, then just add the additives.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 12:37 - 23 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

GettinBetter wrote:
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
... Carbon deposits on pistons won't build up any appreciable amount from just using one tank of fuel.


Brains of a fucking rocking horse..

The build up is already there, from a years worth of fuel being shoved through the system. Brick Wall

First time I ever used it involved taking the exhaust manifold off allowing access to the exhaust ports for visual using scope. Endoscope also goes down the plug hole for piston crown & surround inspection BEFORE additives added. Run engine with fuel additives, full tank took me just over a week. Back in the workshop for recheck, to see before and after results.

I use the Engine Flush, Oil Treatment & Fuel Teatment (petrol versions) once annually.

The product I mentioned have been tried and tested by ME, and that's all I care about.

Run for another year then, do the obligatory oil & filter change, then just add the additives.


Well, whatever, you're still exposing yourself to immanent risk of cancer by over-servicing the kahnt. Tut Tut
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 12:44 - 23 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you get less carbon deposits if you're the kind that thrashes their bike all the time? Or more?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 12:45 - 23 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Misting water into the air intake will clear carbon deposits just as effective as any additive and as previously stated modern fuels don't really cause them anyway. Unless your engine is running far too rich
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Last edited by Nobby the Bastard on 13:00 - 23 May 2021; edited 1 time in total
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 12:55 - 23 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gotta say, it isn't something I've been concerned about since I last owned a 2 stroke.
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to v or not to v
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PostPosted: 19:34 - 23 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

i thought my carbs might benefit from it, possibly clean the internals up a bit.
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