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Do I need to notify private buyer about engine swap?

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Adame
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Joined: 16 Apr 2020
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PostPosted: 11:26 - 29 May 2021    Post subject: Do I need to notify private buyer about engine swap? Reply with quote

Long story short,

Engine seizure due to running on no oil, engine swapped for a similar mileage one, everything works good, V5 changed for new engine number

Asking if I have the obligation as a private seller to tell private buyer about the engine swap? Reason for that question: as everything works fine and you wouldn’t notice the difference (so no one is trying to sell doggy machine) etc, but just the sound of it can scare people away or get me lower price

Thanks
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martin734
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PostPosted: 11:38 - 29 May 2021    Post subject: Re: Do I need to notify private buyer about engine swap? Reply with quote

Adame wrote:
Long story short,

Engine seizure due to running on no oil, engine swapped for a similar mileage one, everything works good, V5 changed for new engine number

Asking if I have the obligation as a private seller to tell private buyer about the engine swap? Reason for that question: as everything works fine and you wouldn’t notice the difference (so no one is trying to sell doggy machine) etc, but just the sound of it can scare people away or get me lower price

Thanks

As you have notified the DVLA and the V5 shows the correct engine number you don't have to tell the buyer anything.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 11:48 - 29 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would... Anything less than full disclosure is a touch fraudulent. It WILL affect the value of the bike by a hundred quid or more.

Also it says something about you as an owner who allowed the engine to run low on oil. None of it is to your advantage, but it depends on your conscience really.
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kgm
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PostPosted: 11:49 - 29 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
I would... Anything less than full disclosure is a touch fraudulent. It WILL affect the value of the bike by a hundred quid or more.

Also it says something about you as an owner who allowed the engine to run low on oil. None of it is to your advantage, but it depends on your conscience really.


This is my view also. A bit disingenuous not to mention it, although no legal obligation.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 12:02 - 29 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should tell them because the mileage indicated on the odometer does not reflect the correct mileage travelled by the engine.
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Martylaa
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PostPosted: 12:50 - 29 May 2021    Post subject: Re: Do I need to notify private buyer about engine swap? Reply with quote

Adame wrote:
Long story short,

Engine seizure due to running on no oil, engine swapped for a similar mileage one, everything works good, V5 changed for new engine number

Asking if I have the obligation as a private seller to tell private buyer about the engine swap? Reason for that question: as everything works fine and you wouldn’t notice the difference (so no one is trying to sell doggy machine) etc, but just the sound of it can scare people away or get me lower price

Thanks


If I was a buyer I’d like to know, would you like to know if you were buying a bike that it was the original engine?
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Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 13:05 - 29 May 2021    Post subject: Re: Do I need to notify private buyer about engine swap? Reply with quote

Adame wrote:
but just the sound of it can scare people away or get me lower price

If you mention the engine swap in the advert then you won't get those people wasting your time.
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 13:47 - 29 May 2021    Post subject: Re: Do I need to notify private buyer about engine swap? Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Adame wrote:
but just the sound of it can scare people away or get me lower price

If you mention the engine swap in the advert then you won't get those people wasting your time.


Sounds like he wasn't going to tell them at all...
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Ste
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PostPosted: 14:08 - 29 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes it does sound rather like that and I think the OP already knows that trying avoid telling them at all could result in an awkward conversation when someone comes to view the bike and asks something where the engine swap should be part of their answer.

Adame how long ago did you swap the engine and has it had any servicing since then?
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 14:22 - 29 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

I certainly think the OP should be forthcoming, but out of interest, is it obvious from the V5 or anywhere else if a vehicle is not running its original engine?
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 14:34 - 29 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freddyfruitbat wrote:
I certainly think the OP should be forthcoming, but out of interest, is it obvious from the V5 or anywhere else if a vehicle is not running its original engine?


No.

I wonder if OP has notified DVLA of the change though?
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 15:02 - 29 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like-for like swap of similar mileage? No, I wouldn't say anything. It's not fraudulent at all you just replaced a (major) part with a better one. If the mileage is similar then whatever small difference there might be in the wear would be miles less than if the original engine had neglected oil changes (which seems to be the case), or if it was thrashed from cold every morning. Would you mention that? No

If any of the people here claiming it's dishonest/disengenuous to mention the engine swap had let the oil run low or left an oil change late would they mention it at sale time? No, of course not it would cast doubt over the saleable condition.

If it's a good engine and fitted properly then you can hold your head up and keep quiet.
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smokin joe
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PostPosted: 16:37 - 29 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I was buying I'd want to know.

There is a case for saying as the new engine number is on the V5 the seller has done nothing wrong, but few buyers check that and I would not think too kindly of someone who did not draw my attention to it.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 17:48 - 29 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why? Because you didn't know something that makes absolutely no difference whatsoever? So the engine's been changed - big deal.

The days of matching frame and engine numbers are long gone.
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smokin joe
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PostPosted: 18:32 - 29 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
Why? Because you didn't know something that makes absolutely no difference whatsoever? So the engine's been changed - big deal.



Personally, if I knew the previous engine had seized because the seller had let it run too low on oil I'd start to wonder about the rest of the bike and walk.

Others might not be bothered, their decision.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 18:57 - 29 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
If any of the people here claiming it's dishonest/disengenuous to mention the engine swap had let the oil run low or left an oil change late would they mention it at sale time? No, of course not it would cast doubt over the saleable condition.

If it's a good engine and fitted properly then you can hold your head up and keep quiet.

If it's a good engine that's been fitted properly then you can hold your head up whilst telling them about it.

The impression I get is that the reason why the engine was swapped is what they'd rather avoid telling people about rather than the fact the engine has been swapped. Explaining that the engine seized because you ran it with no oil is what will devalue the bike because the engine swap itself is no big deal if it's one of a similar mileage. The engine needing swapping because the original seized as a result of running it with no oil is what's going to put people right off or make them check the bike over extra carefully with a fine tooth comb and magnifying glass.

Am I right?
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 19:22 - 29 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:

If it's a good engine that's been fitted properly then you can hold your head up whilst telling them about it.

The impression I get is that the reason why the engine was swapped is what they'd rather avoid telling people about rather than the fact the engine has been swapped. Explaining that the engine seized because you ran it with no oil is what will devalue the bike because the engine swap itself is no big deal if it's one of a similar mileage. The engine needing swapping because the original seized as a result of running it with no oil is what's going to put people right off or make them check the bike over extra carefully with a fine tooth comb and magnifying glass.

Am I right?


So you're saying that if the engine was run low on oil and got a bit of a rattle on which went away after the oil change, you'd expect a seller to volunteer that info? Of course not - that would be 'fair game'.

Years ago my mate stacked his brand new GSXR750, bought all new brand new panels and a brand new engine because the generator taper on the end of the crank was bent. Cost him several grand New bike, new bits, absolutley no way to tell. Should he have declared it when he tradd it in for a new Tuono? Would anyone?

The compromised engine is no longer in the bike. An identical good engine is. There's no foul in not mentioning it. The bike is not made less by having the engine replaced except in people's imagination.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 13:30 - 30 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is there to be gained by not mentioning it versus being blunt? Going with the truth I'd have thought has less comebacks in the long term unless you're the "fuck it, no longer my problem" sort of person.

Do you legally need to mention it? Of course... to the DVLA. But if a potential buyer squints at the V5 and asks "has this had an engine swap?" mumbling "dunno" isn't good enough Neutral
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 13:37 - 30 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems the real question is are you buying a bike or are you buying an open book to its history?
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Ste
Not Work Safe



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PostPosted: 14:07 - 30 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
So you're saying that if the engine was run low on oil and got a bit of a rattle on which went away after the oil change, you'd expect a seller to volunteer that info? Of course not - that would be 'fair game'.

As you say, of course not. The seller might not have even noticed the rattle or that the oil was low.

Pete. wrote:
Should he have declared it when he tradd it in for a new Tuono? Would anyone?

I suspect lots of people would have different levels of disclosure if a selling dealer than if selling to a private buyer.

Pete. wrote:
The compromised engine is no longer in the bike. An identical good engine is. There's no foul in not mentioning it. The bike is not made less by having the engine replaced except in people's imagination.

There's no foul in not volunteering it and you'd only be meant to tell them if they asked a direct enough question and "has the engine been replaced?" is an unlikely question. If they ask "can you tell me about the service history of the bike please" then at that point you're probably meant to tell them about the engine swap. Should he tell them then or should he keep quiet because it's not his problem?

Given that the original engine was hadn't exactly been looked after perfectly, there's every possibility that the replacement engine is better than the one that seized and so the bike is made more by having the engine replaced.
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DJP
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PostPosted: 18:05 - 14 Jun 2021    Post subject: Re: Do I need to notify private buyer about engine swap? Reply with quote

Adame wrote:
Long story short,

Engine seizure due to running on no oil, engine swapped for a similar mileage one, everything works good, V5 changed for new engine number

Asking if I have the obligation as a private seller to tell private buyer about the engine swap? Reason for that question: as everything works fine and you wouldn’t notice the difference (so no one is trying to sell doggy machine) etc, but just the sound of it can scare people away or get me lower price

Thanks


Nope, you're under no such obligation neither legally nor, as far as I can see, morally.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 18:12 - 14 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

A newer/better compatible engine in the frame may be A selling point. Rather than an original high mileage unit.

DVLA should have the info to amend the record too.
Legal obligation.
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DJP
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PostPosted: 18:17 - 14 Jun 2021    Post subject: Re: Do I need to notify private buyer about engine swap? Reply with quote

Adult literacy is clearly a huge problem these days.

Adame wrote:
...V5 changed for new engine number...

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MCN
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PostPosted: 18:36 - 14 Jun 2021    Post subject: Re: Do I need to notify private buyer about engine swap? Reply with quote

DJP wrote:
Adult literacy is clearly a huge problem these days.

Adame wrote:
...V5 changed for new engine number...


/\ TLDR. Rolling Eyes
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iooi
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PostPosted: 13:30 - 15 Jun 2021    Post subject: Re: Do I need to notify private buyer about engine swap? Reply with quote

Adame wrote:
Long story short,

Engine seizure due to running on no oil, engine swapped for a similar mileage one, everything works good, V5 changed for new engine number

Asking if I have the obligation as a private seller to tell private buyer about the engine swap? Reason for that question: as everything works fine and you wouldn’t notice the difference (so no one is trying to sell doggy machine) etc, but just the sound of it can scare people away or get me lower price

Thanks


Look at it like this.
How would you feel if you bought it and found out later?
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