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When is an invite, not an invite?

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Shaft
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Joined: 27 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: 19:48 - 07 Jun 2021    Post subject: When is an invite, not an invite? Reply with quote

Having recently moved into a new flat, the local council have just written to me thus:

"Dear Mr Shaft

This is your invitation to register. Registering to vote only takes a few minutes. If you are not registered, you can't vote."

It then goes on to tell me the ways I can "choose" to register, either online, by calling a number or filling in the enclosed form.

Fine I think, I actually choose not to vote and haven't done since a general election at some point in the 80s.

However, it then tells me that I "need" to respond to the letter and, if I don't I could be fined £80, which I assume could end in court action, if I refuse to pay.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always thought that if you invite someone to do something, they can exercise the right to decline that invitation.

Also, this really has nothing to do with voting, it's about information gathering, information which my local council already have, as well as HMRC, NHS and the DVLA, so why do I need to provide it all again?

Anyone have a view on this demand with menaces?
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Islander
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Joined: 05 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: 19:57 - 07 Jun 2021    Post subject: Re: When is an invite, not an invite? Reply with quote

Shaft wrote:
Having recently moved into a new flat, the local council have just written to me thus:

"Dear Mr Shaft

This is your invitation to register. Registering to vote only takes a few minutes. If you are not registered, you can't vote."

It then goes on to tell me the ways I can "choose" to register, either online, by calling a number or filling in the enclosed form.

Fine I think, I actually choose not to vote and haven't done since a general election at some point in the 80s.

However, it then tells me that I "need" to respond to the letter and, if I don't I could be fined £80, which I assume could end in court action, if I refuse to pay.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always thought that if you invite someone to do something, they can exercise the right to decline that invitation.

Also, this really has nothing to do with voting, it's about information gathering, information which my local council already have, as well as HMRC, NHS and the DVLA, so why do I need to provide it all again?

Anyone have a view on this demand with menaces?


The information gathered by HMRC, DVLA, NHS, etc. was gathered for a specific purpose and cannot be shared further without your explicit permission to do so. That's how Data Protection works.

Legally you have to provide the household information they're asking for and yes, you can be fined for not doing so. You don't have to vote, you do have to register. One piece of advice I'll offer is to make sure you opt out of the edited register - it'll be on the registration process somewhere. They sell the edited register to marketeers and other interested parties. Thumbs Up
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pepperami
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Joined: 17 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: 20:23 - 07 Jun 2021    Post subject: Re: When is an invite, not an invite? Reply with quote

Islander wrote:


The information gathered by HMRC, DVLA, NHS, etc. was gathered for a specific purpose and cannot be shared further without your explicit permission to do so. That's how Data Protection works.

Legally you have to provide the household information they're asking for and yes, you can be fined for not doing so. You don't have to vote, you do have to register. One piece of advice I'll offer is to make sure you opt out of the edited register - it'll be on the registration process somewhere. They sell the edited register to marketeers and other interested parties. Thumbs Up


do you really really think those big government agencies give a flying f*ck about peoples permission

I’ll bet we are a lot closer to 1984 than you think .
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Shaft
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Joined: 27 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: 20:34 - 07 Jun 2021    Post subject: Re: When is an invite, not an invite? Reply with quote

Islander wrote:

The information gathered by HMRC, DVLA, NHS, etc. was gathered for a specific purpose and cannot be shared further without your explicit permission to do so. That's how Data Protection works.

Legally you have to provide the household information they're asking for and yes, you can be fined for not doing so. You don't have to vote, you do have to register. One piece of advice I'll offer is to make sure you opt out of the edited register - it'll be on the registration process somewhere. They sell the edited register to marketeers and other interested parties. Thumbs Up


So what you're saying is, I am being forced, under threat of financial and/or legal consequences, to place information on a central database and enable whoever it may be to circumvent the very protection that the DPA is meant to provide?

Besides, who would want this information that couldn't force government departments to give it up, eg in the investigation of a serious crime?

Oh and I'd already spotted the little nugget that is the opt out for the open register; I wonder how many times that tiny little tick hasn't been noted.................................
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Islander
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Joined: 05 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: 20:42 - 07 Jun 2021    Post subject: Re: When is an invite, not an invite? Reply with quote

pepperami wrote:
Islander wrote:


The information gathered by HMRC, DVLA, NHS, etc. was gathered for a specific purpose and cannot be shared further without your explicit permission to do so. That's how Data Protection works.

Legally you have to provide the household information they're asking for and yes, you can be fined for not doing so. You don't have to vote, you do have to register. One piece of advice I'll offer is to make sure you opt out of the edited register - it'll be on the registration process somewhere. They sell the edited register to marketeers and other interested parties. Thumbs Up


do you really really think those big government agencies give a flying f*ck about peoples permission

I’ll bet we are a lot closer to 1984 than you think .


Yes they most certainly do. There are some exemptions to the sharing restrictions - the obvious examples are to prevent or detect crime, to apprehend or prosecute offenders, to allow collection of taxes and other duties, and for protection of life and limb.

The ICO powers apply equally to the public sector.
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Islander
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Joined: 05 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: 20:50 - 07 Jun 2021    Post subject: Re: When is an invite, not an invite? Reply with quote

Shaft wrote:

So what you're saying is, I am being forced, under threat of financial and/or legal consequences, to place information on a central database and enable whoever it may be to circumvent the very protection that the DPA is meant to provide?

Besides, who would want this information that couldn't force government departments to give it up, eg in the investigation of a serious crime?

Oh and I'd already spotted the little nugget that is the opt out for the open register; I wonder how many times that tiny little tick hasn't been noted.................................


That's the law. I didn't make it but yes, you have to provide the information to the electoral registration officer when asked to do so. They're also bound by the DPA/GDPR unless you allow your details to go onto the edited register of course then it's open season. That one is a particular bugbear of mine - it should be opt in rather than opt out.

Yes there are exemptions to the DPA, prevention and detection of crime is right up there and so is protection of life and limb. They have to be applied proportionately and properly justified. Go on a fishing expedition and there are some serious consequences.
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Suntan Sid
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Joined: 07 May 2009
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PostPosted: 00:35 - 08 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did register with one council for the electoral role, (in England), they claimed I needed to provide my NI number, (you don't). I sent them a redacted copy of my driving licence with just my name and address showing. They accepted it with no questions asked.

In the last property I lived in, in Wales, I did not register to go on the electoral role.
The councils sent a few follow up letters. with threats, but finally gave up. As long as you're coughing up the council tax they couldn't give a shit!
Nothing happened.

When I looked into it, I believe there has only ever been one, recent, court case for not registering and there was more to it than the non registering.

Anyway considering the UK courts have a backlog of cases, measured in years, I can't imagine they'll be out to get you!

Just for balance, even though I'm resident in Cyprus, with all the correct paperwork, all my voting rights have just been removed!
The reason, they all disappeared with brexit, I'm now a third country national with no voting rights, whatsoever!
Thanks a lot Boris, you fuckin' wang!
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