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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 19:48 - 08 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Interesting discussion about the problems with how Covid treatments were approached:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2SudsbW_2M

Interesting only insofar as it makes me think American clinicians are controlled by the insurance companies such that they can’t, for example, “try” anti-coagulants because it’s not (yet) a recommended medication for this new disease, even if their expertise tells them it might be. Dexamethasone (an off-patent anti-inflammatory, giving the lie to the tale that existing, cheap drugs were shunned in favour of expensive new ones, or that re-purposing is resisted) was found to be beneficial for Covid patients by the NHS. Maybe our system encourages such innovation.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 19:58 - 08 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
Interesting discussion about the problems with how Covid treatments were approached:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2SudsbW_2M

Interesting only insofar as it makes me think American clinicians are controlled by the insurance companies such that they can’t, for example, “try” anti-coagulants because it’s not (yet) a recommended medication for this new disease, even if their expertise tells them it might be.


Insurance wasn't the subject under discussion in that video, so did you miss the point being made in the video? Are you more informed about this than either of those two?
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 20:00 - 08 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Maybe our system encourages such innovation.


Actively.
https://www.recoverytrial.net/
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 20:14 - 08 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Insurance wasn't the subject under discussion in that video, so did you miss the point being made in the video? Are you more informed about this than either of those two?

I saw it as an American doctor complaining that he wasn’t permitted to use his experience to determine appropriate treatments. I’ve suggested that might be a consequence of insurance companies holding the purse strings. What point did you intend to make?
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 20:22 - 08 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

They were making the point that doctors and front line medical staff were pressured from the top - by organisations like the WHO and CDC - to follow their directions, and not use their own experience and knowledge to deal with what they were dealing with. They were making the point that discussion was discouraged among such professionals. They were making the point that such an approach is foolish and dangerous, and actually not the way science should be approached. I agree with that assessment. I presume you don't.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 20:51 - 08 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

The doctor talked about the body’s inflammatory response being the issue*, and earlier at 3:10 he mentioned “that steroid thing” (3:10). Dexamethasone is a steroid now used to treat the lung inflammation. It’s discovery and use in the UK wasn’t prevented by WHO or CDC. I’ve proposed another reason why the doctor was hampered.

* There’s a theory that the 1918 “Spanish Flu” unusually impacted younger folk because their strong immune systems fought all the way to exhaustion and death, whereas older, weaker patients let the virus pass through and leave.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 21:49 - 08 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
* There’s a theory that the 1918 “Spanish Flu” unusually impacted younger folk because their strong immune systems fought all the way to exhaustion and death, whereas older, weaker patients let the virus pass through and leave.


That's an interesting point. For example: I see an advert for Nurofen back pain jell and you get the typical Lil-Lets style roller-skating bollox. Surely back pain could be a message than damage is occurring Thinking

In motorcycle terms: is the solution to a check engine light to read the fault codes and fix the problem or... remove the check engine light bulb? Shocked

<edit> forgot where I was going with this Shifty In other words at what point does one consider treating symptoms over the cause (in medical terms.)
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Nobby the Bastard
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Joined: 16 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 22:00 - 08 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you would all focus on snake oil rather than out of 12k cases of Indian/Delta variant only 3 people in hospital have been fully vaccinated?
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 22:21 - 08 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
The doctor talked about the body’s inflammatory response being the issue*, and earlier at 3:10 he mentioned “that steroid thing” (3:10). Dexamethasone is a steroid now used to treat the lung inflammation. It’s discovery and use in the UK wasn’t prevented by WHO or CDC. I’ve proposed another reason why the doctor was hampered.

* There’s a theory that the 1918 “Spanish Flu” unusually impacted younger folk because their strong immune systems fought all the way to exhaustion and death, whereas older, weaker patients let the virus pass through and leave.


Watch from 12:00 onwards, and comment please.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 22:32 - 08 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Watch from 12:00 onwards, and comment please.

Done that. Still ties in with my suggestion.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 22:49 - 08 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
Watch from 12:00 onwards, and comment please.

Done that. Still ties in with my suggestion.


Ok. Well, I don't think so. I think that politics has gotten in the way of this whole Covid mess to a ridiculous degree, especially at the level of proper discussion among medical professionals. I've heard it from so many now that it's hard to dismiss.
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Hong Kong Phooey
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PostPosted: 09:30 - 09 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
So you would all focus on snake oil rather than out of 12k cases of Indian/Delta variant only 3 people in hospital have been fully vaccinated?


I'm seeing a different interpretation with the numbers on ft.com

ft.com wrote:
Of the 126 Delta variant cases in hospitals across England, only three people had received both doses of a vaccine, according to Hancock, while 28 had been given a single dose.


So 11,874 cases didn't need to visit hospital (99%). 25% of the 126 had at least one dose.

I'm guessing none are children, and most are elderly and/or with other health issues.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:18 - 09 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cancelled my second jab Shocked

...and rebooked it as they've shifted the window from 12 weeks to 8 Smile
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Nobby the Bastard
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Joined: 16 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 11:27 - 09 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hong Kong Phooey wrote:

ft.com wrote:
Of the 126 Delta variant cases in hospitals across England, only three people had received both doses of a vaccine, according to Hancock, while 28 had been given a single dose.


So 11,874 cases didn't need to visit hospital (99%). 25% of the 126 had at least one dose.

I'm guessing none are children, and most are elderly and/or with other health issues.


It's actually closer to 20% (21.8% to be precise)
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Hong Kong Phooey
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PostPosted: 11:47 - 09 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Hong Kong Phooey wrote:

ft.com wrote:
Of the 126 Delta variant cases in hospitals across England, only three people had received both doses of a vaccine, according to Hancock, while 28 had been given a single dose.


So 11,874 cases didn't need to visit hospital (99%). 25% of the 126 had at least one dose.

I'm guessing none are children, and most are elderly and/or with other health issues.


It's actually closer to 20% (21.8% to be precise)


Eh?




28 single + 3 double =31
31÷126 = 0.246 x 100 = 24.6%


25% (rounded) of the sample size had at least one jab.
77% the population had at least one jab last time I checked.
54% had two doses.

I'll agree the vaccination program is working, based on the ratio of vaccinated hospitalisations at 25% being less than than the general vaccinated population rate of 77%.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 10:56 - 13 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

C'mon Boris, extend the lockdown! As a lazy person, I'm afraid if you don't, jobs might come back! Laughing

I kind of hope he does. This time, it's really going to be a case of Pass the popcorn as everyone says Middle Finger to it. Feck me, even Theresa May is against extending it!
There will never be a time you couldn't argue for lockdown.
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UncleFester
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PostPosted: 11:21 - 13 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't care if he does or he doesn't. You are either looking out for yourself or you aren't - it matters not what Govt say or do.

Let em mingle Very Happy
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 11:22 - 13 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fucked if he extends it. Fucked if he doesn't.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



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PostPosted: 12:07 - 13 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

In B4 recommended but not compulsory.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 15:03 - 14 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rebellion? Even daytime TV presenters are questioning extending the lockdown Shocked

I'll have my 2nd jab next week so by the end of the month why would I need to wear a mask anywhere?
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Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



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PostPosted: 15:12 - 14 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can still spread it even if vaccinated although the likelihood is much lower.

https://youtu.be/koUf3HXV9Pw
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:43 - 14 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who cares? Anyone that's vulnerable has had the option to be vaccinated, and there's only a vanishingly small chance of anyone else having notable problems with the virus. And anyway, who am I supposed to want to protect? A country full of woke and racist bollocks? Feckin' socialists? Half the country hates itself, so let 'em all die, I say Laughing
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doggone
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PostPosted: 16:06 - 14 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

The original lockdown all those months ago was three weeks to protect the NHS from being overwhelmed by flattening the curve.
It never was overwhelmed and now we are having a further four week extension well over a year later for what exactly?

There aren't even enough covid patients for every hospital to have one each, and though the rates have increased a bit so have test numbers.
Deaths are hovering around single figures and almost all have something else wrong with them and/or are 80+

Sage produce absurd graphs with thousands hospitalised but where are all these patients coming when at least 40% have probably already had it so at even less risk than the even larger number vaccinated.
It's their most ridiculous overblown scaremongering to date and there have been plenty to choose from.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 16:24 - 14 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

doggone wrote:
The original lockdown all those months ago was three weeks to protect the NHS from being overwhelmed by flattening the curve.
It never was overwhelmed and now we are having a further four week extension well over a year later for what exactly?

There aren't even enough covid patients for every hospital to have one each, and though the rates have increased a bit so have test numbers.
Deaths are hovering around single figures and almost all have something else wrong with them and/or are 80+

Sage produce absurd graphs with thousands hospitalised but where are all these patients coming when at least 40% have probably already had it so at even less risk than the even larger number vaccinated.
It's their most ridiculous overblown scaremongering to date and there have been plenty to choose from.


Maybe.... (maybe) the lockdown affects viral transmission. Maybe.

I believe the Ping-Pong (Sorry Chianah) of lockdown-release-madness. Encouraged prolonged use of lock downs.

You see how the proletariat behaved.

Fighting staff in supermarkets cause they objected to mask policy. WTF. If a store follows gov guidance then it's store policy.
If you don't like store policy then fuck off to a store with a policy that meets your choice.
Don't kick-off and behave like a spoiled obnoxious cunthole.

The worst effect on most folk was the loss of earnings.

The biggest thing in the news as lockdown was eased is we can't go on our holidays.

Again I have to ask, WTF?

There's no sound reason to leave UK and expect to not meet further or future controls.

Get a fucking Grip ya absolute whankers.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 16:29 - 14 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:


Maybe.... (maybe) the lockdown affects viral transmission. Maybe.


Once again, it doesn't matter. The vulnerable have been offered protection, and all those that want it have got it. Lockdown and social restrictions aren't doing anything much now to protect anyone.
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Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 2 years, 310 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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