Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Boiler Plus compliance for luddites..

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> Dear Auntie BCF...
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

A100man
World Chat Champion



Joined: 19 Aug 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:02 - 09 Jun 2021    Post subject: Boiler Plus compliance for luddites.. Reply with quote

Installing a new combi.. Gas man tells me (since 2018) all new ones need to have one of four energy saving 'add-ons'.

Most people opt for a Nest or other such WiFi wireless gubbins.
but they are costly and too techie for me.

Can I just install external temp sensor for so called 'weather compensation/loading' ? is it as easy as connecting the appropriate sensor into the swish new boiler?

Cheers
____________________
Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750

Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Hong Kong Phooey
World Chat Champion



Joined: 30 Apr 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 16:06 - 09 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

I fitted Hive to a dual channel gravity feed back boiler, that was a rats nest of wires and took a good hour to sort out.

Then a few weeks later I changed over to a combi boiler, two wires for power and one other for switching. It's simple, if you're not confident any heating engineer could do it in ten minutes. Mine is the dual channel model but I only use the heating side now, the water switching relay is just redundant but I could add a low power outside light or equivalent to that circuit if I wanted to.

The AA battery powered control on the wall is simple, turn the dial to change the temperature. You can also set the heating off/on cycle. I've yet to change the batteries, been in over a year.

The app is intuitive and lets you switch and program heating while you're away. You can turn the heating on an hour before you're due home if you forgot to program it or were outside of your usual routine.

I would highly recommend it over a traditional wall mounted thermostat.
____________________
'81 CG125, '97 FZS600 : '99 CBR600F4, '09 KTM RC8
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 16:33 - 09 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, you have to "have" one.

I "have" a noise reducing baffle for the micron exhaust on my VFR.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 16:43 - 09 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the other side of the coin, I sacked off the wireless, programmable, super-duper room-stat because it was an unreliable, unpredicatable piece of shit which seemed to randomly decide when and if the heatin g would be turned on regardless of how it was programmed and replaced it with a simple 5+2 day timer and electromechanical wall 'stat.

I did however have thermostatic valves fitted on all the radiators so the wall 'stat is really just an end-game cut off switch, most of the rads are off by the time the 'stat trips.

The best thing I did for heating efficiency was let the Mrs pay for the last two fills of 1,000 litres of heating oil. Amazing how much less frequently I come home to find the heating on and windows/doors open now.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

A100man
World Chat Champion



Joined: 19 Aug 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:33 - 09 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
On the other side of the coin, I sacked off the wireless, programmable, super-duper room-stat because it was an unreliable, unpredicatable piece of shit which seemed to randomly decide when and if the heatin g would be turned on regardless of how it was programmed and replaced it with a simple 5+2 day timer and electromechanical wall 'stat.

I did however have thermostatic valves fitted on all the radiators so the wall 'stat is really just an end-game cut off switch, most of the rads are off by the time the 'stat trips.

The best thing I did for heating efficiency was let the Mrs pay for the last two fills of 1,000 litres of heating oil. Amazing how much less frequently I come home to find the heating on and windows/doors open now.


Yeah I'm not happy having tech foisted on me.. but yes you 'have' to have something.. to notionally improve efficiency, either: flue heat retrieval system or outside temp 'compensator' or fancy smart stat. I guess it's for the morons who open widows when it gets too hot in the house in winter. The outside temp thing looked cheap and easy as it apparently dictates the boiler burn rate dependent on in/out temperature differential... lower burn rate are more efficient on a condensor they tell me.
____________________
Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750

Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:49 - 09 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could ask him which one is most easily removed within five mionutes of him walking out of the door?

They all sound like excellent ways of needlessly over-complicating something that is relatively simple and (should be) broadly reliable.

When I said have it. I was meaning in the same way I have a baffle for the exhaust on my bike. I know I have one, it's in a box in the workshop. If you can show you've bought one, is anyone checking it's been fitted?

In my experience, having a burner going less than flat-out is a good way to soot up the sensors.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Hong Kong Phooey
World Chat Champion



Joined: 30 Apr 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:47 - 10 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
On the other side of the coin, I sacked off the wireless, programmable, super-duper room-stat because it was an unreliable, unpredicatable piece of shit which seemed to randomly decide when and if the heatin g would be turned on regardless of how it was programmed and replaced it with a simple 5+2 day timer and electromechanical wall 'stat.

I did however have thermostatic valves fitted on all the radiators so the wall 'stat is really just an end-game cut off switch, most of the rads are off by the time the 'stat trips.

The best thing I did for heating efficiency was let the Mrs pay for the last two fills of 1,000 litres of heating oil. Amazing how much less frequently I come home to find the heating on and windows/doors open now.


On the other hand, you could have gone smart thermostat and kept turning it to 7 degrees every time she adjusted it. Or if you don't value your marriage that much, just lock her out of the controls and not divulge the password. Laughing
____________________
'81 CG125, '97 FZS600 : '99 CBR600F4, '09 KTM RC8
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

MCN
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:52 - 10 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

What was more efficient than having to humph a bucket of carbon rocks up the tenement stairs twice a day and then poking the glowing pile now and again with an iron stick?
____________________
Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

t121anf
World Chat Champion



Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:01 - 10 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are the four options and where does it say you must have it fitted?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Robby
Dirty Old Man



Joined: 16 May 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:32 - 11 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

If flue heat recovery is one of the options, that may already be worked into the new boiler/flue package. I know my new boiler has it. It means it burns less gas to heat my house, which is a good thing.

I also have a smart thermostat, which is great for laziness, I can control the heating from my phone when I'm in bed. The wife has mostly stopped touching the thermostat now, but in the early days I could use it to turn the heat down when I was out and she had turned it up to something silly. For ultimate geekiness I could even automate it so that it automatically goes back to default every time she ties to push it too high.

The tech is there to keep your home at a comfortable temperature for less money and less effort. It works.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

MCN
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:21 - 11 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

All domestic CH boilers must be condensing type now. (Or of that type of efficiency.)

Madness to not fit that type as the economics speak for them self.

Only major deal is that a drain line for condensate must be fitted to drain to ground drains/gutter drains.

The other thing is I am not qualified to remove and install a new GCH Boiler at my gaff.
Though I am more than competent to do so.
Something about GasSafe training (Expensive training)

That makes it almost impossible to even buy a GCH boiler at retail and have sum kwalifyed kunt to install, test and certify.

Thats what puts me off replacing my 2006 GCH boiler.

It works perfectly fine but I know it could be 20% more efficient if I fitted a new boiler. But that would cost £1000+ to save what over the years?
I don't run all my rads in the house and trap as much heat as possible. And wear two pair of underkrackers. Cool
I estimate £500 per year on gas as Im not here all the time. (Vague Guestimate.)
____________________
Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:47 - 11 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:


Only major deal is that a drain line for condensate must be fitted to drain to ground drains/gutter drains.


You need to make sure the fuckers route it to an inside drain. It constantly drips water so it it gets cold, the end can freeze over with a plug of ice and your boiler will conk out.

Really common to have outdoor oil boilers here and the lazy fuckers just vent the condensation pipe onto the ground or into a downspout. Which is fine until it's frosty and you land up standing outside in the pitch black and snow blowing a hairdrier on your new boiler you just spent £6k to have installed.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

MCN
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:01 - 11 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
MCN wrote:


Only major deal is that a drain line for condensate must be fitted to drain to ground drains/gutter drains.


You need to make sure the fuckers route it to an inside drain. It constantly drips water so it it gets cold, the end can freeze over with a plug of ice and your boiler will conk out.

Really common to have outdoor oil boilers here and the lazy fuckers just vent the condensation pipe onto the ground or into a downspout. Which is fine until it's frosty and you land up standing outside in the pitch black and snow blowing a hairdrier on your new boiler you just spent £6k to have installed.


In Kazakhstan winter temps get down to -40º Centipede as normal. Our shop air compressor would sometimes shut off and hours of troubleshooting would ensue.
We found the condensate line was plugged by ice.

The sparky and I wrapped a length of Heat Trace cable around the condenser housing and it's drain then wrapped that in some fire blanket and silver tape as insulation.
Sparky fitted a timer/breaker box so it would work when temps dropped to below mental in the winter.
It provided a fairly simple fix to a constant problem.

https://www.heat-trace.com/admin/files/31.pdf

This is standard notation in extreme climes.
____________________
Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

A100man
World Chat Champion



Joined: 19 Aug 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:50 - 11 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
All domestic CH boilers must be condensing type now. (Or of that type of efficiency.)

Madness to not fit that type as the economics speak for them self.

Only major deal is that a drain line for condensate must be fitted to drain to ground drains/gutter drains.

The other thing is I am not qualified to remove and install a new GCH Boiler at my gaff.
Though I am more than competent to do so.
Something about GasSafe training (Expensive training)

That makes it almost impossible to even buy a GCH boiler at retail and have sum kwalifyed kunt to install, test and certify.

Thats what puts me off replacing my 2006 GCH boiler.

It works perfectly fine but I know it could be 20% more efficient if I fitted a new boiler. But that would cost £1000+ to save what over the years?
I don't run all my rads in the house and trap as much heat as possible. And wear two pair of underkrackers. Cool
I estimate £500 per year on gas as Im not here all the time. (Vague Guestimate.)


Yep.. My last house boiler install 20 yrs ago was condensing... but now you ALSO need one of these extra things.. The fitters (sorry, engineers) want whats easiest and with the most margin so that's a 'smart-arse' controller.

They really have you by the short hairs with this gas safe business. Between 500-1000 quid to install 1k boiler in less than a day..
____________________
Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750

Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Raffles
World Chat Champion



Joined: 14 Apr 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:00 - 12 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
....I am not qualified to remove and install a new GCH Boiler at my gaff.
Though I am more than competent to do so.

Who says that you can't do your own remove and install?
____________________
A good loser will always be a loser.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

MCN
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:36 - 12 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raffles wrote:
MCN wrote:
....I am not qualified to remove and install a new GCH Boiler at my gaff.
Though I am more than competent to do so.

Who says that you can't do your own remove and install?


Its illegal to even remove a screw from a boiler cover unless you are Gas Safe certified.

Too many Kuntz have caused gas sploshuns due to tamperfering with gas appliances.

It's a fairly serious issue and reports of cowboys is not infrequent.

https://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/

"Gas Safe Register is the official gas registration body for the United Kingdom, Isle of Man and Guernsey. It replaced CORGI registration and by law all gas engineers must be on the Gas Safe Register. Our role is to act as a licensing body."

I can't even remove and fit a boiler as it would require isolation at the supply and that work is regulated too.
(Unless for emergency where a leak is suspected. Gas can be closed at the meter by anyone.)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-57232373.amp

Tragic.
____________________
Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Raffles
World Chat Champion



Joined: 14 Apr 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:50 - 12 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
Its illegal to even remove a screw from a boiler cover unless you are Gas Safe certified.

Over the years, I've ripped out and replaced boilers in many of my properties. Even though I've never been on The Gas Safe Register, I haven't broken any laws.
____________________
A good loser will always be a loser.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

MCN
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 01:01 - 13 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raffles wrote:
MCN wrote:
Its illegal to even remove a screw from a boiler cover unless you are Gas Safe certified.

Over the years, I've ripped out and replaced boilers in many of my properties. Even though I've never been on The Gas Safe Register, I haven't broken any laws.


When someone dips you in or someone asks for a cert you might find yourself in court.

It's chased up.

https://resources.hse.gov.uk/convictions/breach/breach_list.asp?SN=S&ST=B&SF=IS&SV=3

FYI it IS breaking the law.

You should read up on it for your own benefit.
____________________
Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Freddyfruitba...
World Chat Champion



Joined: 20 May 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:15 - 13 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

The relevant law (The Gas Safety [Installation and Use] Regulations 1998, as far as I'm aware) states: "No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so."

MCN wrote:
FYI it IS breaking the law.

No. What's specifically illegal is to represent yourself as a gas engineer and charge for doing gas work. It's not illegal per se for an unqualified person to do gas work in their own home. But the issue is defining exactly what "competent" is in the eyes of the law. Being on the Gas Safe Register would obviously normally fit that criterion. And if someone's not qualified to work on gas fittings and does something stupid which results in harm, then they will have demonstrated themselves not to be "competent", and will rightly have the book thrown at them.
____________________
KC100->CB100N->CB250RS--------->DL650AL2->R1200RS->R1250RS
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

MCN
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:11 - 13 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freddyfruitbat wrote:
The relevant law (The Gas Safety [Installation and Use] Regulations 1998, as far as I'm aware) states: "No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so."

MCN wrote:
FYI it IS breaking the law.

No. What's specifically illegal is to represent yourself as a gas engineer and charge for doing gas work. It's not illegal per se for an unqualified person to do gas work in their own home. But the issue is defining exactly what "competent" is in the eyes of the law. Being on the Gas Safe Register would obviously normally fit that criterion. And if someone's not qualified to work on gas fittings and does something stupid which results in harm, then they will have demonstrated themselves not to be "competent", and will rightly have the book thrown at them.


Them's not my rules M8.

https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link/review?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:7c0155c4-65a7-45b9-a2d9-71d5bbe5e729

The sort of attitude is equivalent to the attitude of the two cheap cunts who killed a little boy by electrocution at a shite hole pub in England

https://www.pbctoday.co.uk/news/health-safety-news/david-bearman-jailed/92035/

Sometimes we can't muddle through and hope things will be fine.
Sometimes things that are inherently and immediately dangerous have controls and legal barriers in place to keep fools at bay.
____________________
Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Freddyfruitba...
World Chat Champion



Joined: 20 May 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 17:17 - 13 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:

Nor mine - I linked to the relevant law on my last post (I don't know what the above link is, but it's broken).

I made no judgement about unqualified people doing their own gas work (and I certainly don't condone it); I was merely stating the correct legal position on the subject.
____________________
KC100->CB100N->CB250RS--------->DL650AL2->R1200RS->R1250RS
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

MCN
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:09 - 13 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freddyfruitbat wrote:
MCN wrote:

Nor mine - I linked to the relevant law on my last post (I don't know what the above link is, but it's broken).

I made no judgement about unqualified people doing their own gas work (and I certainly don't condone it); I was merely stating the correct legal position on the subject.


U do U.

In the meantime, I have taken the opportunity to report your posts to the relevant authorities.
____________________
Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 2 years, 289 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> Dear Auntie BCF... All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Page 1 of 1

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.11 Sec - Server Load: 0.27 - MySQL Queries: 17 - Page Size: 133.88 Kb