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Penalty shootout or tiddlywinks?

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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 09:56 - 12 Jul 2021    Post subject: Penalty shootout or tiddlywinks? Reply with quote

Im not a football fan, quite the opposite but are penalty shootouts essentially just a way of avoiding accepting a draw? If so how much of that is driven by money and the gambling industry?

The way I see it is the more highly evolved a team is as a footballing machine the more likely after rounds if knockouts that ultimately the chance of a draw becomes higher, almost to the point of a certainty. Theres not a lot of revenue for bookies in that scenario. So there's the tiddlywinks of the penalty shootout.
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to v or not to v
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PostPosted: 10:07 - 12 Jul 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

you cant have a draw in a cup final. one team wins and takes the trophy. hence the need for penalties some times.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 10:31 - 12 Jul 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

to v or not to v wrote:
you cant have a draw in a cup final. one team wins and takes the trophy. hence the need for penalties some times.


That may be the rule but does it need to be? Cant fans accept equivalents? I think your missing my point a little though.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 10:58 - 12 Jul 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a more exciting way to decide a draw. Extra time played to decide a Winner should involve a player from each side being sent off (or shot from the opposing team dugout.) Every 5 mins of extra time.
Until it comes down to two players.
Then they either fite to one taps out or toss a coin.
If the final score is still even.

I would watch that. (Just the extra time. Fuck the rest of the shite.)
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 11:10 - 12 Jul 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
to v or not to v wrote:
you cant have a draw in a cup final. one team wins and takes the trophy. hence the need for penalties some times.


That may be the rule but does it need to be? Cant fans accept equivalents? I think your missing my point a little though.


They can't just keep playing because at some point everyone will be too tired to even kick the ball.

You seem to be missing the point of a knockout competition.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 11:25 - 12 Jul 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:

They can't just keep playing because at some point everyone will be too tired to even kick the ball.

You seem to be missing the point of a knockout competition.


They have ninety minutes, surely after that time if neither team is on top then thats just tough, its a draw and accept it.

Maybe an Its a Knockout style tiddlywinks-off with giant tiddlywinks?
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 11:36 - 12 Jul 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

It’s the Thunderdome principal. No middle ground.

Maybe they should just admit that the faux-war is inconclusive and there will have to be a proper war to decide who’s the best.
Wink
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 11:37 - 12 Jul 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
Nobby the Bastard wrote:

They can't just keep playing because at some point everyone will be too tired to even kick the ball.

You seem to be missing the point of a knockout competition.


They have ninety minutes, surely after that time if neither team is on top then thats just tough, its a draw and accept it.

Maybe an Its a Knockout style tiddlywinks-off with giant tiddlywinks?


So if it's a draw who gets the cup?

There's no point having a world cup final if neither wins. It defeats a the object of the final in the first place.

And betting has no effect on this. In league foot ball there are many draws and people bet on whether there will be a draw. The Pools were based on them ffs.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 11:39 - 12 Jul 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think these matters should be decided by a dance-off, 1980s hip-hop style...
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 11:39 - 12 Jul 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or Boris and Draghi, Two Tribes Go To War -style.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 11:58 - 12 Jul 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:


So if it's a draw who gets the cup?

There's no point having a world cup final if neither wins. It defeats a the object of the final in the first place.


Maybe they just both have to go home home and accept they're not good enough to have an outright victory?

Nobby the Bastard wrote:

And betting has no effect on this. In league foot ball there are many draws and people bet on whether there will be a draw. The Pools were based on them ffs.


Fair doos i dont really get how betting works in any detail. In terms of odds though, in a competition where the difference in performance between teams is so narrow then it becomes very short for choosing a draw, does that reduce booky profits? I dont know but suspected it might.

I see it like this. If you pulled a couple of cars out of a scrapyard and drag raced them then one would very likey trounce the other as there would be so many variables that increase the liability that one car might fail. Pick two supercars off the shelf though, where huge effort has been put into controlling variables then the likelyhood both cars would hit the target speed at essentially the same point is high. Its the same with football, the standard of skill in some highly evolved footballing machine is so high the gap between teams is a fag paper. The use of a penalty shootout is like having the supercar drivers tieing then hopping out to do an egg and spoon race back down the track.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 12:00 - 12 Jul 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
I think these matters should be decided by a dance-off, 1980s hip-hop style...


Nahh, bring it up to date and have it Strictly style with the managers having to play the woman.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 12:21 - 12 Jul 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm now cvonvinced that this is just an elegant attempt to troll us....
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:32 - 12 Jul 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have a bet on a team to win/draw/lose or whatever in a cup competition it is only valid within the 90 minutes unless extra time/penalties is specifically stated.

eg. If I laid a bet on Italy to win it would not have paid out because they didn't win in 90 minutes. The only way it would pay is if I had bet specifically bet on Italy to win after penalties. Then of course it wouldn't have paid out if Italy had won in normal times. Rolling Eyes

You don't think bookies are stupid do you. Wink
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 12:34 - 12 Jul 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
I'm now cvonvinced that this is just an elegant attempt to troll us....


I'll take that as a point to me in the shootout Laughing

There is an element of truth there. I largely despise football since being the kid who on account of being useless in any sport involving a ball always ended up playing goal keeper. I used to get my revenge on the idiots who put me in goal by letting the other side score, still the chumps didn't seem to wise up and understand that the worst position to give the worst player is goaley. I now get a substantial amount of shadenfrueder (could not be arsed looking up the proper spelling) from the knowledge that at any one time more than half the football fans of the world are in a state of misery, its also one of the few pleasures of living in Scotland Laughing
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 12:38 - 12 Jul 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:


You don't think bookies are stupid do you. Wink


No i don't but im pretty sure they make a lot of money off people who unlike me think they understand bookmaking.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 12:58 - 12 Jul 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
If you have a bet on a team to win/draw/lose or whatever in a cup competition it is only valid within the 90 minutes unless extra time/penalties is specifically stated.

eg. If I laid a bet on Italy to win it would not have paid out because they didn't win in 90 minutes. The only way it would pay is if I had bet specifically bet on Italy to win after penalties. Then of course it wouldn't have paid out if Italy had won in normal times. Rolling Eyes

Usually extra time and penalties are included if betting on the match result. That is unless you start going into obscure bets.

Any bets placed after the last semi final would have been for who's going to win Euro 2020 whatever-its-called as a default rather than the match result.

You can choose all sorts of variations on how [your chosen side] will win and when they'll win, you could bet on what the result will be after 90 minutes, etc etc etc
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Kris
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PostPosted: 14:30 - 12 Jul 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

MLS used to do a hockey-style shootout instead of penalties (not sure if they still do it) where the player starts with the ball at the centre circle, and the goalkeeper on his line and it's one-on-one.

It was actually a great watch Thumbs Up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNExAtWu0CU
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MCN
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PostPosted: 17:25 - 12 Jul 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kris wrote:
MLS used to do a hockey-style shootout instead of penalties (not sure if they still do it) where the player starts with the ball at the centre circle, and the goalkeeper on his line and it's one-on-one.

It was actually a great watch Thumbs Up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNExAtWu0CU


Yeah, but instead of hockey sticks the players get 2lb Ball Pein hammers.

First to tap out loses.

Thumbs Up
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 18:16 - 12 Jul 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

to v or not to v wrote:
you cant have a draw in a cup final. one team wins and takes the trophy.

Half a cup though?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:24 - 12 Jul 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

That'll be horrific in the.womens competition, though. The scenes in the prize giving would be horrendous.
We've all seen 2 girls one cup....
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 18:34 - 12 Jul 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
That'll be horrific in the.womens competition, though. The scenes in the prize giving would be horrendous.
We've all seen 2 girls one cup....


Sick
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 22:09 - 12 Jul 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I would rather we just pulled out of the Euros and the Eurovision too.
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