DVLA - Engine swapped - previous owner did not update the V5

[DucksGuts]

Hi BCF,

In short here's a summary of what situation I'm in. I passed my DAS a few months ago after having it completely disrupted during 2020 and it took me 16 months from start to finish. I have purchased a bike that I've wanted for a while and I'm looking forward to finally getting on the road.

Bike with its current engine: 600cc
Bike on V5 listed with it's previous engine: 350cc

Previous owner swapped out the engine but did not update the V5

(Not other modifications to frame and engine is a straight swap)

Currently SORN
MoT valid til next year
V5C in my name arrived today in the post.

I'm aware the DVLA is having serious issues and it could be weeks/months.

My question is, should I tax and insure the bike - then send off the V5C with the updated Engine CC and Engine number or should I send the V5C off without taxing the bike and just wait.?


Can I tax the bike for its smaller 350cc engine and then "upgrade" the engine during a tea break and then send the V5C with it's updated details in the afternoon?

Are the insurers going to have any problems even though I'll be making them aware that this is the situation and will be obtaining insurance for the bike with the cc increase?


Sorry if this is confusing! Thank you in advance for any advice.

[Nobby the Bastard]

So, someone made a 350cc bike (wich would be usable under one of the age restricted license category) into a 600cc which wouldn't but didn't tell anyone.

And you've just 'purchased' this bike after you've passed your big boys license.....


Hmmm.....
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

[DucksGuts]

[xX-Alex-Xx]

I don’t imagine insurance companies getting you in trouble for it as long as it’s declared.

DVLA will likely screw you if it’s not taxed correctly.
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DILLIGAF

[wr6133]

Not that i'd ever think of breaking the law but I can think of alot more downsides to declaring it compared to not giving a fuck and keeping as is.

[stinkwheel]

You will need to send "evidence" of the engine swap in to the DVLA along with the V5. Either a receipt for the engine or a letter on headed paper from a garage confirming bike vin mumber 12345 is now fitted with engine number 67890.

I'm not sure what their take on changing the cc is because I've never done it. They might decide they want it inspected.

What the law requires you to do is inform the minister of the changes you have made to the vehicle. Regulations then allow you to make this declaration to the appropriate agency. In this case, the DVLA.

Another law states that if a legal declatation is required to be made by post, posting that declaration means it has been received.

The law also requires you to tax and insure your vehicle.

Your insurance contract requires you to inform them of any modifications you have made to the bike

So. What I would do is tax the vehicle as it shows now. Insure it declaring the modifications and send off your advice of modifications to the DVLA. I would keep a copy of the form you sent in to the DVLA and attach the proof of posting to that copy.

If/when they send back the altered V5, SORN the bike and re-tax it.

This isn't to say the DVLA wont get humpty but you can at least show you have taken all reasonable and legally required action to do things by the book. By sending them written notice of the alteration, you have complied with the law.

I still wouldn't be at all surprised if you receive a letter refusing to alter the engine capacity and/or stridently accusing you of defrauding them of tax. Or even just sending the V5 back unaltered with no comments.

Where you will have broken the law if you do the above is in not paying sufficient tax but I'm not aware of a mechanism to do so until they have altered their records.

If you really wanted to confuse the shit out of them, you could send them a cheque for the extra £24 with a letter stating you believe you have underpaid the excise duty on your vehicle (and again record doing so). If it later came to a court case, showing you had made the statuatory declaration about the engine change AND sent them the difference in unpaid VED would leave very little to make a case from.

EDIT: As with wr6133, hypothetically if one of my bikes cc didn't match the V5, I would probably decide it wasn't worth the inevitable creative misunderstandings and harrassment that would result from informing the DVLA. However, there would be no way of telling that the cc of this hypothetical bike was different without measuring the bore and stroke. It may be a different matter if the cc of the swapped in engine is already recorded as being larger.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[P.]

I am sure my ZXR750 was still a 750 on the V5 but a 900 engine wise

Would I care, if I was riding on the road in a high risk area, yeah. If I was fucking around on track with it or bimbling in the country, probably not.

I'm far more legal these days though

[MCN]

There will be an issue over the braking effect of a chassis designed for a 350cc engine power output with a 600cc engine power output.
Engineering wise, the brakes are matched for the amount of push the engine can produce.
Big engines need big brakes.
If the brakes were upgraded to suit then an engineer who can work that out could pass it as a 600cc bike.

Unless there absolutely no fuks given in the engineer report field.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[stinkwheel]

[ThunderGuts]

I'd sort it out with the DVLA first (while it lives in a shed / gets trailered to where it may need to go for any inspection. Once square with them, tax, insure and MOT it.

I don't know enough about the intricacies, but I do know that insurance companies will pore over every possible detail to squirm out of a claim. If you hit someone and a pedantic assessor starts to unpick things like the wrong engine etc.., while you may have declared it to the insurers, they may find other clauses to screw you on.
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TG.

[UncleFester]

What the DVLA have on file vs what you tell your insurer are two different things.

DVLA is tax and ownership - end of. All they care about the legal stuff for is so that they can apply the correct tax to the correct owner.

Yes there's some stuff about having the correct documentation but if you've been up front with your insurer then that's all they care about.

As Stinkwheel says, tax it as is. Notify the insurer, fill out the form for the DVLA and send it off with the modifications on and then pay the updated / backdated tax when DVLA get back to you.
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Module 1 and 2 passed - October 2014. Happy owner of a 2017 Z1000SX, ex owner of a YBR125 / CB500 / VFR800.

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

[MCN]

[photoman]

[quote="stinkwheel"]

[Fisty]