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Are we on the verge of societal collapse

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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 19:02 - 08 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've come to realise that criticising along Labour vs Tories lines is ultimately insignificant.

Does The Man on the Clapham Omnibus™ have access to clean water, food, heating, housing, basic telecommunications? For the most part yes and he has done for >50 years. The lights flickered a bit in the '70s accompanied by some intermittent bin collections, been some wars in far off places no one really cares about but really, fuck all's happened in most people's lives. Nothing important - as in life & death - has happened or will happen with any given government.

I have come to see the unique value of the NHS. I'd not be blasé about talk of dismantling it.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 20:22 - 08 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
I've come to realise that criticising along Labour vs Tories lines is ultimately insignificant.


True. But the Tories are useless, and Labour are mental Laughing
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 20:48 - 08 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Easy-X wrote:
I've come to realise that criticising along Labour vs Tories lines is ultimately insignificant.


True. But the Tories are useless, and Labour are mental Laughing


Indeed, and arguing about which one is better is like discussing whether to wear the red socks or the blue socks. "Red socks send a message..." mmm, but your feet care not the colour.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 21:04 - 08 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

What we need are purple socks Very Happy
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 21:24 - 08 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
What we need are purple socks Very Happy


Rainbow socks to keep everyone happy.......

Oh yes, well maybe not Thinking
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 02:52 - 09 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
and that is solely down to Labour and no one else as UncleBFester wrote.


Largely agree regarding the current Labour lot.

But the media has a huge part to play. For example, it's no secret that Tony Blair had to get in Rupert Murdoch's pocket.

Before 2016 there was not a single newspaper article which simultaneously contained the words 'Jeremy Corbyn' and 'Antisemitism'. After 2016, there were suddenly hundreds.

The mainstream media controls every country to varying levels, and in the UK we need to do a fucking lot more to deal that fact.

You might say, "Then Labour should just do things that the mainstream media agree with", but that completely removes the point of politics in the first place, and further proves that the media do indeed rule the world.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 02:56 - 09 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:

So how come the Tories still get elected? If conservative ideals are no longer relevant, they must have adopted something else.


I think it was Christopher Hitchens who said that the Conservatives would hang the Queen on parliament square if it's what the masses wanted.

They are a power-at-all-costs party. Not a for-the-good-of-the-nation party. That's why they tend to win. It's far easier to appeal to the baying mob than it is to appeal to complex, long term plans.

I guess Labour should also try to appeal to the baying mob, but when they do that, they're accused of being just like the Tories. It's abundantly clear that Labour have a far greater hill to climb, no matter what angle they take. Also see above post re mainstream media. I believe that is the greatest hill of all.
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UncleFester
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PostPosted: 07:07 - 09 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

The other issue with labour is that from a 48 year old perspective, I'm old enough to remember the royal mess they made the last time they were in charge. So unless they are offering a credible workable alternative that is visibly better than the current idiots then I won't vote for them.

Their behaviour is more visible than their policies - i don't think this has registered with them ( or any party really) yet.

Does the media have a part to play in that, absolutely but what the media report on is in the hands of the people offering them content on a plate to throw at us.

I'm neither pro Tory or pro Labour, I'm anti idiot. Labours success or fail is in Labours hands and no one elses.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 19:59 - 09 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
It's far easier to appeal to the baying mob than it is to appeal to complex, long term plans.

I guess Labour should also try to appeal to the baying mob, but when they do that, they're accused of being just like the Tories. It's abundantly clear that Labour have a far greater hill to climb, no matter what angle they take. Also see above post re mainstream media. I believe that is the greatest hill of all.


So the "baying mob" translates as the majority of voters?

Agreed that MSM is a huge problem, as are all our institutions at present. It is not the institutions themselves - they have the same potential they've always had. Rather, it is the kind of people who have found themselves in positions of influence within those institutions.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 20:33 - 09 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
They (the Tories) are a power-at-all-costs party. Not a for-the-good-of-the-nation party. That's why they tend to win. It's far easier to appeal to the baying mob than it is to appeal to complex, long term plans.

Curious, Corbyn’s manifesto sounded like a great big giveaway (power at all costs, not good for the nation) and people either didn’t believe it was costed, or didn’t agree that (other) people should get something for nothing, or thought it was a nice idea that could never work.

Quote:
Free broadband. Free adult learning. Free dental care. The biggest council house building programme in decade. Abolish student tuition fees and bring back maintenance grants. All paid for by squeezing the rich, raising corporation tax, making tech giants pay the exchequer a fair whack, and by borrowing more.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/21/jeremy-corbyn-labour-manifesto-harks-back-to-1940s

We were also going to apologise and make reparations to various historically wronged parties. All paid for by somebody else.

I agree that the MSM are too preachy but many of them are lefties, yet even they’ve had a hard time putting Labour in a good light.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 22:45 - 09 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:

So how come the Tories still get elected? If conservative ideals are no longer relevant, they must have adopted something else.


I think it was Christopher Hitchens who said that the Conservatives would hang the Queen on parliament square if it's what the masses wanted.

They are a power-at-all-costs party. Not a for-the-good-of-the-nation party. That's why they tend to win. It's far easier to appeal to the baying mob than it is to appeal to complex, long term plans.

I guess Labour should also try to appeal to the baying mob, but when they do that, they're accused of being just like the Tories. It's abundantly clear that Labour have a far greater hill to climb, no matter what angle they take. Also see above post re mainstream media. I believe that is the greatest hill of all.


The central failure of democracy.

Corbyn had some good ideas and some bat-shit-crazy stuff. Did it do him any good? Nope. Tories go "we're not going to do anything spectacular to interfere with Joe Prole's life... meaning we'll have time to line our own our chums' pockets" and ppl seemingly lapped it up, given the resultant swing towards the blue.

Don't like it? Get rid of our so-called democracy and install a benign dictator 'cos no one's going to vote for nobility, sacrifice and the greater good.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 06:13 - 10 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't it horrible what the Tories do to the "baying mob"? Laughing

Lord Percy wrote:
I guess Labour should also try to appeal to the baying mob, but when they do that, they're accused of being just like the Tories. It's abundantly clear that Labour have a far greater hill to climb, no matter what angle they take.


Who exactly are Labour supposed to represent these days? Just minorities, or as I think they like to term them now, "special interest" groups? The working class (baying mob?)? The elites (whoever they are - self-styled, methinks)? What even IS "the left"? Crisis! Laughing

But don't worry, I can do a character assassination of the Tories too if you like Smile
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Jmoan
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PostPosted: 20:19 - 11 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:

lol

I guess the mass privatisation, the funding cuts, anti-immigrant rhetoric, windrush scandal, our tommeh, hard Brexit, oh and a full decade of Conservative government victories, just didn't happen in your world.


You must have missed the hug a hoodie,boatloads of suspect immigrants and rainbow dildo butt monkeys when you were on your travels.


Easy-X wrote:

I have come to see the unique value of the NHS. I'd not be blasé about talk of dismantling it.


I wouldn't be blase about supporting it either considering it's poor performance, cover ups and that goes for healthcare outside the NHS too including the GP system and various unions.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/uk-cancer-survival-rates-bottom-world-league-table-a9101916.html
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 23:12 - 11 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jmoan wrote:
Easy-X wrote:

I have come to see the unique value of the NHS. I'd not be blasé about talk of dismantling it.


I wouldn't be blase about supporting it either considering it's poor performance, cover ups and that goes for healthcare outside the NHS too including the GP system and various unions.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/uk-cancer-survival-rates-bottom-world-league-table-a9101916.html


If your concern is just "is the NHS good value for money?" then of course it looks bad but there's tangible psychological benefits for the residents of the UK from just its presence whether said residents have need of medical aid or not.
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GettinBetter
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PostPosted: 21:34 - 12 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

The western world have always created havoc around the world to profit from the mayhem, now the chinese are playing them at their own game.

Their chink sleepers from the last 20/30 years, are coming into play, they've all achieved positions of power and influence, and are committed to bringing the western world to their knees.

However, they are not the only players scheming to get world domination, at some point the goos, mozzies, and the chinks will have a head to head, as they'll be the only super powers left.

A woman I knew (who was married to a chinaman, and lived there for a few years) once said that "if you lined up 10 western men, you'd be lucky to find a bad one, but if you lined up 10 chinese men, you 'd be lucky to find one good one."
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 18:36 - 13 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rather than society collapsing i think were on the verge of total consolidation of societal control.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 18:37 - 13 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

GettinBetter wrote:
The western world have always created havoc around the world to profit from the mayhem, now the chinese are playing them at their own game.

Their chink sleepers from the last 20/30 years, are coming into play, they've all achieved positions of power and influence, and are committed to bringing the western world to their knees.

However, they are not the only players scheming to get world domination, at some point the goos, mozzies, and the chinks will have a head to head, as they'll be the only super powers left.

A woman I knew (who was married to a chinaman, and lived there for a few years) once said that "if you lined up 10 western men, you'd be lucky to find a bad one, but if you lined up 10 chinese men, you 'd be lucky to find one good one."


Racist tripe.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 00:28 - 14 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
Rather than society collapsing i think were on the verge of total consolidation of societal control.


The bit in Doctor Who (before it was ruined) with the Cybermen controlling people with Bluetooth earpieces:

https://m0vie.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/doctorwho-riseofthecybermen6.jpg

And now we have:

https://dam.which.co.uk/f939fc01-1d6f-4450-8c2c-6cddb664676a.jpg

Shocked
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 00:35 - 14 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

So it’s the the Cybermen who are telling me to rock the casbah? I’ll do my best.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 00:41 - 14 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:


Scary, my girlfriends been going on about getting some Shocked
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