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fatpies
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PostPosted: 15:31 - 09 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
smegballs wrote:
So with an unsecured loan, there's no way a creditor can extract their cash from you, such as seizing assets paid for with loaned money?

So in theory, I could get as much credit as possible, buy a load of goods.

Declare bankruptcy, keep the goods that were bought with borrowed cash and then sell them for a profit?


Not quite, unsecured loans have in the fine print they can go after your home. But its not that simple. If you are irresponsible or have acted fraudulently as in the above scenario the court won't grant you your bankruptcy.

Even if you do you go bankrupt. You get your assets totted up and they seize your assets which are deemed to be non essentials.

So if you have two vans. One of which is used for work. They'll take the van you don't use for work.

Secondly during your bankrupcy period you're supposed to tell them about additional income you have from selling things or windfalls. And you can't do a lot of things, taxis and certain things.


Grant Bovey (Anthea turner's Ex husband) pulled off a massive ruse doing this. Just before he went bankrupt, he owned something like £55 million. His creditors reckoned he'd welch on it so made him personally responsible for the debts of his company.

So before he went bankrupt he gave all his assets to Anthea and his daughers and mates. Then went bankrupt.

When he was discharged he 'happened to come across' millions.

It happened so much with UK students they had to change the law to prevent loans being welched on.
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oldpink
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PostPosted: 15:34 - 09 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
can someone explain this to me regarding debt

we hear all the time how the gubberment need to borrow X Billion's per year
same for the US they are Trillions in Debt

my question is who do they borrow from and how do they pay it back
as it seems they borrow more and more every year
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fatpies
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PostPosted: 15:45 - 09 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
oldpink wrote:
can someone explain this to me regarding debt

we hear all the time how the gubberment need to borrow X Billion's per year
same for the US they are Trillions in Debt

my question is who do they borrow from and how do they pay it back
as it seems they borrow more and more every year


Do you really want to know? Its madness btw.


It used to be foreigners. China and Japan used to buy US treasury bonds. This both stabalised the exchange rate and helped their exports, for post WWII Japan reconstruction and Chinas industrialisation.

Today we engage in a bit of Ouroboros.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ouroboros.png

Because our economy is fubar and foreign jonnies know this and won't touch our bonds with a barge pole. Or ask for extremely high interest rates. Like if you loan dodgy dave a £10 to offset the risk he won't pay you back you ask for £20 back.

Greece have to pay a Wonga type interest rates on their bonds.

Note at 1% we pay 50bn interest on bonds. This goes to 2% and thats 100bn or 1/4 of the entire tax take just to pay interest.

Greece hit 30%. the interest is bigger than their economy.


Japan is similar but do something funnier.


Normally what happens is the Government issues a bond. They then have a market auction. The market knows we are FUBAR. So won't touch them.

So the Bank of England prints money gives it to the high street banks who use it to buy the Government bonds. The banks take a cut. The BoE then buys the bond off the high street bank. And its A-OK under the Maastrict treaty which forbids the self buying of bonds. Like Argentina did. The

The Fed is doing exactly the same.

If you look at the BoE assets vs the QE money printed. There is exact correlation. So essentially we are printing money and borrowing from ourselves, by devaluing every £1 in your pocket. Which is why pensions are being killed.
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oldpink
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PostPosted: 15:51 - 09 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
so basically the banks that almost bankrupted us also own us (well were mortgaged to the hilt with them)
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pa_broon74
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PostPosted: 16:08 - 09 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
oldpink wrote:
so basically the banks that almost bankrupted us also own us (well were mortgaged to the hilt with them)


The thing is even more complicated than that because the banks were not regulated effectively. The bonds issued and then bought by the banks have been resold several times over, its called rehypothecation. (Based on hypothetical Worth.)

Its a bit like you remortgaging your house, then the organisation who gave you the money then remortgages it again and they get money and so on and so forth as many as 8 or 9 time over.

Hypothetically speaking 8 or 9 different set ups now 'own' your house and can use it as collateral to borrow yet more money to speculate with on the market.

Its totally crazy.

For a fairly straightforward rundown on re-hypothecation go here; https://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2011/12/rumours-disasters-and-re-hypothecation/

Its not to heavy going and a pretty interesting blog to read.
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TheSmiler
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PostPosted: 16:18 - 09 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Simple like the national lottery offering 25 millionaires on the Euro, everyone has spent all their money lavished on the holiday so they need to find a way to make more to pay the bills.

Personally don't see a problem with online gambling, don't see a problem with gambling at all. Also don't see a problem with cash lending companies. It's the person at the end of the day (just like a gun has never killed anyone on its own) they are the screw ups , If you are going to get hooked on gambling limit yourself through the bookies of a certain amount be sensible don't put £20 on 15000/1 shot.

Know someone who makes a living off gambling, he does poker/blackjack at the local casino on Wednesday and Friday's taking home 50-300, also does sport betting regularly tells me of his winnings 40-500 (depending on how many games/bets he has). Considering it is tax free earnings if you are wise then you can make a pretty penny especially if you remember the golden rule if you ever win money take your winnings and half the pot away from the table and don't buy in again.

Regarding the loan companies/pay day again its down to the person not to screw it up think logically don't grab a £400 pay day cheque if you can't be sure to pay it back. Get a loan for say £300 at £7 a week (meaning you end up paying back) £350 keep up the payments and you will be fine. Put the money to one side and then pay it off straight away.

Too many people let greed take over them so they screw up their lives, take care take responsibility, manage your money and you won't have any problems.
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angryjonny
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PostPosted: 16:23 - 09 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
pa_broon74 wrote:
Its a bit like you remortgaging your house, then the organisation who gave you the money then remortgages it again and they get money and so on and so forth as many as 8 or 9 time over.

What really messes it all up is that rather than being sold in individually, mortgages were bundled together and sold in packages. In such a package you might find a bunch of 50% mortgages from folks unlikely to default or you might find a bunch of 110% mortgages from people who can't afford them.

These packages of mortgages then get picked apart, rebundled and sold on. So no-one knows what's in the bundles they have been sold; guaranteed cash or almost-guaranteed default. This is what caused the original credit-crunch (banks had to write down the packages they'd bought because they didn't know what was in them). The markets lost all confidence in their value and when you've spooked a market everyone gets out of it.

(The value of a mortgage is only the value of the house it's secured against. If you artificially inflate house prices by lending willy-nilly then you get bigger mortgages. But if you stop lending and cause prices to crash as happened here, your mortgages are worthless because if folks default on their payments you can't even recoup your stake by reposessing and reselling the physical property)

Of course the same banks were making a killing selling such packages on 10 years ago. So the boom of the early noughties was basically the banks borrowing money from "the future" and it could only keep going for so long before it all collapsed. Refer to my earlier post for similar "sod the future to maximise current profits" and "no fish left in the sea" type rants.

Last edited by angryjonny on 16:28 - 09 Jan 2013; edited 1 time in total
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oldpink
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PostPosted: 16:28 - 09 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
TheSmiler wrote:

Too many people let greed take over them so they screw up their lives, take care take responsibility, manage your money and you won't have any problems.


totally agree
Just after I got married we bought a house exactly at the wrong time just before the cheap mortgages bubble burst
I got paid off and ended up in debt, it took me 5 years to get back into the black
and I've never been in debt since
I use prepay CC's so can't overspend, no over-draught or mortgage to worry about
and I like it that way
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 18:38 - 09 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
oldpink wrote:
TheSmiler wrote:

Too many people let greed take over them so they screw up their lives, take care take responsibility, manage your money and you won't have any problems.


totally agree
Just after I got married we bought a house exactly at the wrong time just before the cheap mortgages bubble burst
I got paid off and ended up in debt, it took me 5 years to get back into the black
and I've never been in debt since
I use prepay CC's so can't overspend, no over-draught or mortgage to worry about
and I like it that way


But you are thinking of getting into the hotel game, doesn't that go totally against what you just said?
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oldpink
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PostPosted: 18:44 - 09 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:


But you are thinking of getting into the hotel game, doesn't that go totally against what you just said?


not really I have money to invest without having to get loan's etc thats what will get it up and running
so I shouldn't be in debt as long as I can keep the hotel in the black each month
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Flatbadger
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PostPosted: 23:01 - 09 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I got up to £1.20 on a slot machine as a kid with 10p to start, then put it all back in again. Never again Laughing
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 00:05 - 10 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
oldpink wrote:
Polarbear wrote:


But you are thinking of getting into the hotel game, doesn't that go totally against what you just said?


not really I have money to invest without having to get loan's etc thats what will get it up and running
so I shouldn't be in debt as long as I can keep the MLO in the black each month

Wink
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 07:33 - 10 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
chris-red wrote:
I don't see a problem with it, if you are skint don't gamble. If you are dumb enough to think you are gonna be a winner you deserve to loose your money.


and then...

crime rates go up! We could extend jail terms, but its preferable to stop those burglaries and robberies before they actually happen.
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Nick__C
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PostPosted: 13:57 - 10 Jan 2013    Post subject: Re: gambling adverts Reply with quote
keggyhander wrote:


I'm a libertarian who believes in guns, drugs etc, but I'd ban online gambling in a fucking heartbeat.


Then you aren't a libertarian...

If I want to spend a few hours playing $1 or $2 HU SNG's online why the fuck should I not? 'cause stupid twats can't look after their own money? Evil or Very Mad Middle Finger
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 17:35 - 10 Jan 2013    Post subject: Re: gambling adverts Reply with quote
keggyhander wrote:
elgard wrote:
A rant I agree with


I'm a libertarian who believes in guns, drugs etc, but I'd ban online gambling in a fucking heartbeat.


Why do you need to take a gun to work in a library?? Confused
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Old Thread Alert!

There is a gap of 7 years, 180 days between these two posts...

martin734
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PostPosted: 23:02 - 07 Jul 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Great first post. Post some inane drivel on a thread that died 7 years ago. You are going to get on well in here. Rolling Eyes
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 11:25 - 08 Jul 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
oldpink wrote:
can someone explain this to me regarding debt

we hear all the time how the gubberment need to borrow X Billion's per year
same for the US they are Trillions in Debt

my question is who do they borrow from and how do they pay it back
as it seems they borrow more and more every year


Prepare to have your mind blown.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fractionalreservebanking.asp

You cannot un-see the above so look in the box at your own risk Shocked
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 11:28 - 08 Jul 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
martin734 wrote:
Great first post. Post some inane drivel on a thread that died 7 years ago. You are going to get on well in here. Rolling Eyes


Oops. Shocked
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There is a gap of 1 year, 61 days between these two posts...
Maryldeva This post is not being displayed because it has a low rating (Spam). Unhide this post / all posts.

to v or not to v
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PostPosted: 13:47 - 09 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Maryldeva wrote:
I am a big poker fan and hope to find mates to play with here.


you want to play with my poker Shocked
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The last post was made 2 years, 223 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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