Help & FAQs    Search BCF    Members    Groups    Events Calendar
Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Electric . . .

 Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> General Bike Chat Goto page Previous  1, 2
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

Kawasaki Jimbo
World Chat Champion



Joined: 09 Oct 2015
Karma :
PostPosted: 19:03 - 09 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
droog wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
I wonder how soon those millions of little scooters/125's we see in cities in the far east will get changed to electric. That seems like the ideal target audience but then those little bikes cost pennies. They won't pay 3 times the price for an EV.

And yes, I have seen those homemade lashups using converted scooters but nothing from real manufacturers.


I reckon they are on their way - saw a really interesting programme recently on Chinese EV companies - they are really driving things forward in this area,

Aren’t those people even less likely to have a driveway with a dedicated charging point though? What’s the solution? Work-based charging points, presumably. Is that happening?

droog wrote:
the last big injection of 'new blood' into biking (people in teens and 20's) was in the late 90's when motorcycles got properly fashionable again and a lot of people were doing 1 week direct access to full licence.

T’was me, but I was late 30s.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Karma :
PostPosted: 19:11 - 09 Sep 2021    Post subject: Re: Electric . . . Reply with quote
droog wrote:

Yes - I reckon this kind of electric, C90 type machine will appear on the mass market soon - it will most likely be designed and built by a Chinese manufacturer as they have done a lot of work already on EV technology.


https://eco-move.co.uk/nqigts-sport/?attribute_pa_colour=black-red&utm_source=Google%20Shopping&utm_campaign=Copy%20Google%20Merchant&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=14782&gclid=Cj0KCQjw4eaJBhDMARIsANhrQAB_SH29efBvbFHWcuYUiTSX8kkEWfaWFkV27okG8nrvNH95bC-bdtYaAhrcEALw_wcB

There are loads already.
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

droog
Spanner Monkey



Joined: 03 Dec 2019
Karma :
PostPosted: 20:13 - 09 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
T’was me, but I was late 30s.


Yeah - I was also part of that late 90's direct access cohort - back in 1998 Bike Magazine even ran a cover story remarking on the amount of new riders entering the scene - and how it was a massive boost for biking etc.

Yamaha had just launched the R1 and I remember walking past Harrods about 1998 and seeing a Ducati Monster 'Dark' 600 in one of the display windows - about the same time the posh Regent Street store 'Liberty' had a 1998 Hornet featuring in one of their interior displays - seems kind of weird looking back on it how motorcycles were becoming 'cool' and 'trendy' enough to be considered fashion accessories in up-market department stores back in the day.
____________________
Even more boring in real life . . .

Last edited by droog on 20:16 - 09 Sep 2021; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

droog
Spanner Monkey



Joined: 03 Dec 2019
Karma :
PostPosted: 20:14 - 09 Sep 2021    Post subject: Re: Electric . . . Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:


There are loads already.


Thanks for the link - as you can tell I'm hopelessly out of date on this stuff - just shows how fast things are moving! Very Happy
____________________
Even more boring in real life . . .
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Zen Dog
World Chat Champion



Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Karma :
PostPosted: 22:15 - 09 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
When it comes to electric bikes, aren’t bikes per se going out of fashion anyway?


Yeah, and that's kind of the point. We aren't the future of biking really. They should stop trying to sell to most of us with our odd, dangerous and impractical hobby. Sell to the people who need bikes, not want them. Sell to the scooter riders who want to keep their feet dry and don't care what's under the bodywork.

I really think Honda etc. are missing the boat. The new Super Cub is a nostalgia fest that isn't even as good as Honda's other 125s really. They should have made it electric, and sold it on pretty much exactly the same marketing campaign as the original. With their clout it might actually have worked. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck9wBHW2160
____________________
Current - '94 VFR750FR, '00 VFR800FI Previous - '10 Street Triple R, '92 MZ ETZ301, '05 TTR250, NSR125R, KMX125, "Honda" Win (chinese copy of an old Honda design with a C90 engine)
My bike trip around S.E. Asia 2010/2011
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Pigeon
World Chat Champion



Joined: 27 Sep 2012
Karma :
PostPosted: 22:46 - 09 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Robby wrote:
Once I can buy an electric bike with ~50hp, 180kg, 100 mile range for about £8k, I'll do it.



You must have reasons for wanting electric specifically, because this makes little sense to me.

A CB500F same power + weight, but does 2.5x the range (taking 1 min to re-fill not 20-120) and costs £5.5k new (but 3.5k for an 18 month old is better value).
It does 75mpg and I've no idea how long it would take electric to repay the £3-5K price difference or even if 75mpg can be beaten by electric (probably can given petrol prices currently).

Add £1k and drop the MPG to 54, range to 160. And there are lots more fun bikes than CB500.

So you must just have a desire for electric for other reasons. Because to me its crazy. Pay twice as much to be inconvenienced 40x as much and any green credentials are largely out the window once factoring in batteries.


I wouldn't mind one as a winter hack / shopper. But it'll be a long time before prices fall enough to consider one for that.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Bhud
World Chat Champion



Joined: 11 Oct 2018
Karma :
PostPosted: 00:05 - 10 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's nothing but pure neophilia.

There are even people who strip out the engines from old Ferrari 308s and Karmann Ghias, and fit electric motors with just enough battery power to make 50 to 100 miles depending on conditions, and then justify it by saying they need a way to commute into London. Confused

Just doesn't make sense. There is public transport in London and in surrounding areas. There are cars like the Nissan Leaf for people who don't like public transport. And at around £15K per conversion, they have just deprived themselves of a classic car they could have enjoyed on weekends.

It's a free world and people have the freedom to make their own consumer choices. However, what I think is a bit worrying in the case of EVs is that the early/current adoptees, acutely aware that, oftentimes, there was something not 100% rational in their decision or in their enthusiasm, feel compelled to evangelise and try to force legal and regulatory changes so that their decisions, while making absolutely no sense today, can be made retrospectively "good" with the help of local and central government powers.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Karma :
PostPosted: 03:01 - 10 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bhud wrote:
It's nothing but pure neophilia.

There are even people who strip out the engines from old Ferrari 308s and Karmann Ghias, and fit electric motors with just enough battery power to make 50 to 100 miles depending on conditions, and then justify it by saying they need a way to commute into London. Confused

Just doesn't make sense. There is public transport in London and in surrounding areas. There are cars like the Nissan Leaf for people who don't like public transport. And at around £15K per conversion, they have just deprived themselves of a classic car they could have enjoyed on weekends.

It's a free world and people have the freedom to make their own consumer choices. However, what I think is a bit worrying in the case of EVs is that the early/current adoptees, acutely aware that, oftentimes, there was something not 100% rational in their decision or in their enthusiasm, feel compelled to evangelise and try to force legal and regulatory changes so that their decisions, while making absolutely no sense today, can be made retrospectively "good" with the help of local and central government powers.


Some of that may be true, but with all new technology it's early adopters that get the ball rolling. Are they destroying ALL 308s and Kharmann Ghias? No. Are 308's and Kharmann Ghias the best examples of those breeds? Nah. It might be blasphemy, but the 308 was always a junior Ferrari and they only make 260 odd bhp which was wimpy for a Ferrari in 1980, let alone now. Kharmann Ghias have a wheezy air cooled VW engine that is only fit for the skip anyway and never set the world alight. They make the 308 look like a veyron in comparison.

Sure, if people really are destroying valuable classics, that's kind of bad, but it's rare and it seems not particularly an issue for cars which were best of breed in the first place.

Also bear in mind what people do for Youtube views is not reflective of actual reality.

You say neophilia, but excess nostalgia can be just as toxic (literally in some cases).
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

droog
Spanner Monkey



Joined: 03 Dec 2019
Karma :
PostPosted: 07:52 - 10 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Along with the cars it will be interesting to see if retro fitting petrol bikes with electric motors becomes a thing in the future.

This is probably something else that is already happening that I'm not aware of; you could sell a kit with an electric motor, battery, instruments and model specific brackets to hang the motor in the frame.

The battery pack/electronics would be sitting inside the now defunct fuel tank (which would have the bottom cut out of it).

Students at the University of Warwick have already built an electric Fireblade:

https://riders.drivemag.com/news/honda-fireblade-based-electric-project-unveiled-by-students/
____________________
Even more boring in real life . . .

Last edited by droog on 09:01 - 10 Sep 2021; edited 2 times in total
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Karma :
PostPosted: 08:21 - 10 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
droog wrote:

This is probably something elese that is already happening that I'm not aware of; you could sell a kit with an electric motor, battery and instruments and model specific brackets to hang the motor in the frame.

The battery pack/electronics would be sitting inside the now defunct fuel tank (which would have the bottom cut out of it).


It makes less sense in a bike as the frame and engine are designed as one, with the engine as a stressed member. However, if you were to do it, the battery pack would be where the engine is, the motor where the gearbox is, and whatever you want could go in the fuel tank (possibly more battery capacity). Packaging is less of an issue in electric configurations in the sense that the motor is comparatively small and you can hide the control gubbins almost wherever you want. The issue is and has always been getting enough battery capacity without a) too much weight and b) to give enough range.
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

droog
Spanner Monkey



Joined: 03 Dec 2019
Karma :
PostPosted: 08:36 - 10 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:
It makes less sense in a bike as the frame and engine are designed as one, with the engine as a stressed member. However, if you were to do it, the battery pack would be where the engine is, the motor where the gearbox is, and whatever you want could go in the fuel tank (possibly more battery capacity). Packaging is less of an issue in electric configurations in the sense that the motor is comparatively small and you can hide the control gubbins almost wherever you want. The issue is and has always been getting enough battery capacity without a) too much weight and b) to give enough range.


Thanks, that clarifies my rather fuzzy understanding of exactly how the electric motor and power pack are configured.

Impressed by the efforts of the students at Warwick with the Fireblade - will be interesting to see how it goes at the TT Zero race next year.
____________________
Even more boring in real life . . .
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

ThunderGuts
World Chat Champion



Joined: 13 Nov 2018
Karma :
PostPosted: 08:42 - 10 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:

It makes less sense in a bike as the frame and engine are designed as one, with the engine as a stressed member. However, if you were to do it, the battery pack would be where the engine is, the motor where the gearbox is, and whatever you want could go in the fuel tank (possibly more battery capacity). Packaging is less of an issue in electric configurations in the sense that the motor is comparatively small and you can hide the control gubbins almost wherever you want. The issue is and has always been getting enough battery capacity without a) too much weight and b) to give enough range.


If manufacturers were serious, they could fairly easily (?) make an "electric engine" package which is a direct swap and still fulfils any structural requirements. Battery tech I predict will leap forwards as electric takeup gathers momentum; this should filter down to motorcycle options.

Incidentally, for this reason I'd never buy an electric vehicle; the tech moves so fast that if a new innovation appears, existing stuff quickly becomes obsolete with values plummeting accordingly. Lease instead then you know you can hand it back, irrespective of what's happened in the meantime.
____________________
TG.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Karma :
PostPosted: 08:48 - 10 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
ThunderGuts wrote:


If manufacturers were serious, they could fairly easily (?) make an "electric engine" package which is a direct swap and still fulfils any structural requirements. Battery tech I predict will leap forwards as electric takeup gathers momentum; this should filter down to motorcycle options.

Incidentally, for this reason I'd never buy an electric vehicle; the tech moves so fast that if a new innovation appears, existing stuff quickly becomes obsolete with values plummeting accordingly. Lease instead then you know you can hand it back, irrespective of what's happened in the meantime.


They can't do that as the weight is totally different. The forces on the frame are totally different. It is definitely not simple.
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

ThunderGuts
World Chat Champion



Joined: 13 Nov 2018
Karma :
PostPosted: 08:52 - 10 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:

They can't do that as the weight is totally different. The forces on the frame are totally different. It is definitely not simple.


I agree, but it's possible. Still probably easier to just buy a new electric bike.
____________________
TG.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Robby
Dirty Old Man



Joined: 16 May 2002
Karma :
PostPosted: 12:37 - 10 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pigeon wrote:

You must have reasons for wanting electric specifically, because this makes little sense to me.


I do. I only ride for fun on rides of under 100 miles, or for commuting into London (although I haven't done that for over a year, and won't be doing it much in the future). I like how electric motors behave, and I'm a geek.

I could have a lot more practicality and flexibility with petrol, and lower overall costs. If I care about any of those things that much, I wouldn't currently ride a newish Guzzi and a 40 year old Honda 250.

I'm also planning on getting solar panels in the next year or so. Again, unlikely to save me any money, going to cost. I still like the idea of charging my vehicles for free off the sun.

Oh, final major reason that I know doesn't make sense to most people. I just really, really hate going to petrol stations.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Prawny
Nitrous Nuisance



Joined: 22 Jun 2019
Karma :
PostPosted: 16:39 - 10 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
[quote="Kawasaki Jimbo"]
Aren’t those people even less likely to have a driveway with a dedicated charging point though? What’s the solution? Work-based charging points, presumably. Is that happening?


These are the bikes that the manufacturers are working on the swappable batteries on as the don’t need to be as huge for the speed/range to replace a big bike. Most of these avails on the market have a removable battery pack you can take into the house to charge (or under your office desk if you can get away with it, free travel for the win)
____________________
Yamaha Vity 125 (gone) Kawasaki ER6N(dead) 2022 Royal Enfield Meteor 350 (nicked) 2003 DL1000 V Strom
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Pigeon
World Chat Champion



Joined: 27 Sep 2012
Karma :
PostPosted: 00:24 - 12 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Robby wrote:
I do.


Fair do's. The closest I got to going electric was potentially buying a Luton van, converting to 12v solar and living out of it. It wasn't that expensive and definitely doable.
But I talked myself out of it, the reality vs romanticism probably far apart.


Which Guzzi and 250 Honda do you have?
I thought about getting V7 several times, but can't get it out the back to wash due to width of door. Which meant washing out front, which meant advertising bike to world + dog and having to converse with neighbours.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Robby
Dirty Old Man



Joined: 16 May 2002
Karma :
PostPosted: 16:48 - 16 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
2018 Guzzi V9 roamer, 1980 Honda CB250RSA
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

redeem ouzzer
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Oct 2015
Karma :
PostPosted: 11:39 - 17 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sorry, not for me.

For me riding is mainly about the sensory experience, noise, feel, smell. I don't really ride out of necessity, a couple of hours spin or a trackday is enough for me, although I do choose to use my 1100 for work some of the time purely because it has similar fuel economy to my 1.2 Fiesta but does the job much quicker and less dull.

Also I love developing and tuning bikes, doing some engineering and understanding the effect of different things on a dyno. EV's don't really allow for this sort of involvement.

I often criticise certain bikes for feeling like a featureless electric motor, so it's fairly obvious a real electric motor isn't going to win me over.
____________________
Be a REAL MAN!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 3 years, 45 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> General Bike Chat All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
 You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 
Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.13 Sec - Server Load: 0.07 - MySQL Queries: 16 - Page Size: 119.48 Kb