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New exhaust problems on a Kawasaki ER6-N

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sapstar
Renault 5 Driver



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PostPosted: 00:18 - 22 Sep 2021    Post subject: New exhaust problems on a Kawasaki ER6-N Reply with quote

I have a few posts here seeking help on ad-hoc issues with a new exhaust install on my bike. Now the exhaust is installed and it sounds good. I seem to have quite a few problems and wanted some advise.

1. While riding today I felt like the engine is hotter than usual and I could feel a lot of heat. Am I just being paranoid or, there could be a problem somewhere? Today is a hot day too... Could it be just the weather?

2. I was smelling something burning while I was riding. When I finished my ride, i checked the bike and the belly pan was touching the exhaust headers and unfortunately melted Sad. What are my options here. Does this mean the exhaust wasn't fitted correctly?

3. The muffler and the foot rest are very close like about 2mm apart. When the shocks are compressed, will the foot rest and muffler move down together or the footrest will start pushing the muffler?
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 00:39 - 22 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) A free breathing exhaust could make the bike engine run more lean. I would expect a modern fuel injected bike to adjust the fuelling cope with this. A lot depends on how sophisticated the injection system is though. So yes, it's possible it could be running hotter.

2) Not an uncommon problem with aftermarket exhausts. Check with the exhaust manufacturer. It's not unusual to have to add spacers under a belly pan or add some heat shielding like silicone matting or carbon fibre sheet between the exhaust and belly pan to prevent damage. The belly pan should not be touching the exhaust. The old EX500 which was the predecessor to your bike was notorious for doing this when fitted with an aftermarket 2-1 exhaust, you had to put three or 4 washers under the rear belly pan mounting to space it away a bit.

3) The footrest and silencer are both attached to the sprung part of the chassis and shouldn't move in relation to one another. In this case, a miss is as good as a mile. Make sure none of the unsprung componants can foul the exhaust at full compression. The rear suspension compresses more than you think, I've seen setups before where something like a rear hugger can hit the silencer on full compression. Also make sure a pillion passenger isn't going to burn their foot.
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sapstar
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PostPosted: 07:45 - 22 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
1) A free breathing exhaust could make the bike engine run more lean. I would expect a modern fuel injected bike to adjust the fuelling cope with this. A lot depends on how sophisticated the injection system is though. So yes, it's possible it could be running hotter.

2) Not an uncommon problem with aftermarket exhausts. Check with the exhaust manufacturer. It's not unusual to have to add spacers under a belly pan or add some heat shielding like silicone matting or carbon fibre sheet between the exhaust and belly pan to prevent damage. The belly pan should not be touching the exhaust. The old EX500 which was the predecessor to your bike was notorious for doing this when fitted with an aftermarket 2-1 exhaust, you had to put three or 4 washers under the rear belly pan mounting to space it away a bit.

3) The footrest and silencer are both attached to the sprung part of the chassis and shouldn't move in relation to one another. In this case, a miss is as good as a mile. Make sure none of the unsprung componants can foul the exhaust at full compression. The rear suspension compresses more than you think, I've seen setups before where something like a rear hugger can hit the silencer on full compression. Also make sure a pillion passenger isn't going to burn their foot.


Thank you very much for your response. You said that the engine could be running hotter. Is this something I need to worry about or a common side effect with aftermarket exhausts?

Regarding the belly pan, I removed it from the bike for now and will use the bike without a belly pan until I figure out what to do.

https://i.ibb.co/hs3KpwW/DSC-0135.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/7JRx1DX/DSC-0136.jpg
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 19:29 - 22 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

sapstar wrote:


Thank you very much for your response. You said that the engine could be running hotter. Is this something I need to worry about or a common side effect with aftermarket exhausts?


It's certainly a potential problem on carbed bikes because they can be running lean which can damage the engine. They often need to be re-jetted to suit the exhaust. I'm not knowledgeable enough about FI bikes to know your specific answer though. I do know some FI bikes need a remap or aftermarket power commander box to make them run properly with a free breathing exhaust.

Usually if the exhaust is marketed as a direct replacement, it's just plug and play. If it's marketed as a sports or race exhaust, it may require some setting up to run correctly.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 04:47 - 23 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

A change of zost may change the engine's Volumetric Efficiency ( Cool ).
If the injection system has an O2 (Lambda) sensor in the pipe in front of the muffler then the computer will map fueling and ignition to suit the air-flow.
If not as sophisticated then there could be issues.
Some zost folks tune their pipes to suit specific engines.
But most decent places recommend additional mapping devices. A box of electronic Jizz-moz that monitors/corrects engine performance. Some fixed some adjustable.
Power Commander is a popular one.

It depends on many factors, you may be ok with a change no difference or it may not add to the overall enjoyment/usability of the beast.
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sapstar
Renault 5 Driver



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PostPosted: 06:35 - 23 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all three information provided. The exhaust I bought is Blackwidow 300SS. It is marketed as a direct replacement to factory exhaust with no mapping necessary. My exhaust does have an O2 sensor.
https://www.blackwidowexhausts.co.uk/ninja-er-6n-er-6f-er650e-12-17-de-cat-exhaust-system-300mm-oval-stainless-silencer-19102-p.asp

I forgot to mention that I do hear a back fire once in while in low speeds. Other bikes on the road with aftermarket exhausts have more obvious backfires. So I am thinking this should be expected.
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xX-Alex-Xx
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PostPosted: 08:04 - 23 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

The stock O2 sensor will adjust to a point, but they're mostly only used for fuel efficiency when riding at a steady state.

Ideally you should throw a Power Commander on there and get it dyno'd (or at least use one of the maps you can get from the Dynojet site that closely matches your setup). It'll make a difference, especially at low revs/low throttle.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 10:02 - 23 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

sapstar wrote:
Thanks for all three information provided. The exhaust I bought is Blackwidow 300SS. It is marketed as a direct replacement to factory exhaust with no mapping necessary. My exhaust does have an O2 sensor.
https://www.blackwidowexhausts.co.uk/ninja-er-6n-er-6f-er650e-12-17-de-cat-exhaust-system-300mm-oval-stainless-silencer-19102-p.asp

I forgot to mention that I do hear a back fire once in while in low speeds. Other bikes on the road with aftermarket exhausts have more obvious backfires. So I am thinking this should be expected.


I have the shorter BW can on my 2009 ER6-F and it cracks and pops on every deceleration and sometimes on acceleration too.

I even did a forum post on here because I thought the fuel economy on my bike was way off, but then I started tracking it on Fuelly and it's average MPG is only a couple points off the average MPG of all tracked bikes of the same year (which is probably because of the can) but it's a trade off for having a brutal sound. Which I like because I really hate my neighbours.
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A100man
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PostPosted: 11:06 - 23 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Their pic in the link you supplied shows the belly pan fitted.. If nothing was mentioned in the fitting instructions (e.g. trim here..) I'd be inclined to challenge them about it.

Also..

* No modifications required. (Re-mapping, Power comm+er)

* Accepts original lambda sensor (O2 sensor).
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xX-Alex-Xx
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PostPosted: 12:59 - 23 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

A100man wrote:
Their pic in the link you supplied shows the belly pan fitted.. If nothing was mentioned in the fitting instructions (e.g. trim here..) I'd be inclined to challenge them about it.

Also..

* No modifications required. (Re-mapping, Power comm+er)

* Accepts original lambda sensor (O2 sensor).


Yeah, but what is a "Power comm+er"? We all interpret it as a Power Commander but that's just our interpretation. It's not a "requirement" to have a remap, but it would definitely be recommended.... And just because you can fit the O2 sensor doesn't mean that you won't need a remap. In sales speak, they've made no promises they haven't met.
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Last edited by xX-Alex-Xx on 13:41 - 23 Sep 2021; edited 1 time in total
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A100man
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PostPosted: 13:15 - 23 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

xX-Alex-Xx wrote:
In sales speak, they've made no promises they haven't met.


..apart from 'no modifications required'*

*if you don't mind burning a hole in the belly pan
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xX-Alex-Xx
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PostPosted: 13:47 - 23 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

A100man wrote:
xX-Alex-Xx wrote:
In sales speak, they've made no promises they haven't met.


..apart from 'no modifications required'*

*if you don't mind burning a hole in the belly pan


It's not a requirement. But definitely recommended Wink
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sapstar
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PostPosted: 19:32 - 23 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for your responses. I will send the questions to the manufacturer. I am not really looking to spend more on mapping, power commander etc.
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sapstar
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PostPosted: 19:36 - 23 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:


I have the shorter BW can on my 2009 ER6-F and it cracks and pops on every deceleration and sometimes on acceleration too.

I even did a forum post on here because I thought the fuel economy on my bike was way off, but then I started tracking it on Fuelly and it's average MPG is only a couple points off the average MPG of all tracked bikes of the same year (which is probably because of the can) but it's a trade off for having a brutal sound. Which I like because I really hate my neighbours.


Thanks for the info. Do you feel your engine runs any hotter than it used to with stock exhaust?

Other than the back fires and fuel economy, are there any other problems? Currently I only have pops during deceleration at low speeds and not too often.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 06:27 - 24 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

xX-Alex-Xx wrote:
The stock O2 sensor will adjust to a point, but they're mostly only used for fuel efficiency when riding at a steady state.


This.

Narrowband lambdas don't react fast enough or over a wide enough range to do anything more.

Also on fuel injected bikes you're just as likely to run rich especially at low throttle openings. Now combine that with a poorly fitting header and you've got combustion in the downpipe. That's probably your issue.

I wouldn't bother contacting the manufacturer it's going nowhere at all. Add some clearance for the belly pan with a couple of small brackets or something.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 10:55 - 24 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

sapstar wrote:
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:


I have the shorter BW can on my 2009 ER6-F and it cracks and pops on every deceleration and sometimes on acceleration too.

I even did a forum post on here because I thought the fuel economy on my bike was way off, but then I started tracking it on Fuelly and it's average MPG is only a couple points off the average MPG of all tracked bikes of the same year (which is probably because of the can) but it's a trade off for having a brutal sound. Which I like because I really hate my neighbours.


Thanks for the info. Do you feel your engine runs any hotter than it used to with stock exhaust?

Other than the back fires and fuel economy, are there any other problems? Currently I only have pops during deceleration at low speeds and not too often.


I bought the bike with the exhaust already on it. All I did was take out the baffle. I actually don't feel much heat off the bike unless I have been driving around Glasgow City Centre and constantly have to sit at traffic light after traffic light. Other than that nothing noticeable.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 11:51 - 24 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

You may also find you can reposition the system by loosening all the clamps, jiggling it about then re-tightening them in turn.

I usually tighten header, then end can, then any inbetween joints to avoid stresses.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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sapstar
Renault 5 Driver



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PostPosted: 20:28 - 25 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried repositioning, but there doesn't seem to be an more slack. I installed the belly pan again with a few washers. There is about 1mm gap now. I think I need to add a few more washers to make sure there is no contact. Currently the bolts are too short to accept any more washers.
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