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Stop TAMPERING with your bike/car!

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Bhud
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PostPosted: 18:14 - 12 Oct 2021    Post subject: Stop TAMPERING with your bike/car! Reply with quote

OK, I got this from a source that isn't very popular on here, but I have checked out the consultation document. This is a disturbing development.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1021000/future-of-transport-regulatory-review-modernising-vehicle-standards-print-version.pdf

The long and short of it is, the government wants to introduce a new law that will, among many other things, make it unlawful to "tamper" with your own private vehicles. This will include any sort of unauthorised repair or modification on any component you carry out yourself, or ECU mapping work, or disabling ABS/linked brakes, etc. In short, everything.

The overall aim of these plans has been laid out rather clumsily in this document and in the consultation. The plan is to put the onus on manufacturers to install some sort of black box tech in vehicles (to include bikes) which will connect with government systems. This will report back all vehicle movements to central government, as well as enable specific orders and commands to specific vehicles. The aim is to, most likely, impose a per-mile new vehicle taxation regime, and at the same time enable a roster type of electronic system which will ban your vehicle from the road on certain days (using pollution as a justification) or from certain areas (same old justification).

What's interesting is that they're implying, in their documents, that this is a new sort of vehicle type approval, and they will only admit to "safety", "security" and the "environment" as the intentions behind these plans. Yet, they're strangely specific about the massive scope of control and surveillance (they actually use that word) that they plan to enforce. It does read rather as if a powerful lobby group connected with the car industry, a car manufacturer or a tech company has come up with a computerised device and sold it to the government/greased a few palms, to try to get this installed in every new car (and bike). A foolproof method of planned obsolescence and an authoritarian's wet dream...

Anyway, I just thought I'd mention it here, because unless my knowledge of the English language is grossly inadequate, "tampering" to me suggests doing something that ought not to be done, i.e. something illegal, or something basically wrong. For example, if I deflate my neighbour's tyres I'm "tampering" with his car. If I deflate my own tyres, I am not tampering at all, because it's my own property. If a thing is mine, I have the basic right to destroy it. If I buy a record I don't like, and break it, that's not tampering. If I repair my bike or car, adjust the fueling to get better fuel efficiency, or set it up for a trackday, that's not "tampering" either. But, according to these proposals, doing anything at all to your own vehicle would count as "tampering", and will be unlawful.

Quote:
Specifically, we would look to create:

• a specific offence for supplying, installing and/or advertising, a ‘tampering product’ for a vehicle or NRMM – this would apply where a principal effect of the product is to bypass, defeat, reduce the effectiveness of or render inoperative a system, part or component (the product may be a physical part or component, hardware and/or software)
• a specific offence for removing, reducing the effectiveness of, or rendering inoperative a system, part or component for a vehicle/NRMM and advertising such services
• a specific offence for allowing for use or providing a vehicle or NRMM that has had the operations described in the previous 2 points performed on it
• a new power to require economic operators to provide information, where a service/product they have supplied amounts to or enables ‘tampering’ with a vehicle or NRMM – this would apply in any of the above senses and include requirements to provide relevant information on the quantities of products sold or modified


(There's a lot more in the survey)
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 19:17 - 12 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks worrying Sad .
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 19:25 - 12 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

The "tampering" bit has already hit America (i.e. this bit looks copied/internationally coordinated), and the rest is just a surveillance/control wet dream. Note the bit about forcing manufacturers of parts to report to the government about to whom they sold "tampering" parts... It looks like it's EITHER designed to kill off the parts and repair industry, and motorsports OR is indifferent to the parts and repair industry and motorsports (collateral damage). I guess they're interested in seeing who wins in America (EPA vs car guys) before trotting it out over here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH5HjH-ZTtg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krgDM4S2hpo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kujbVL7F_6U
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rpsmith79
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PostPosted: 08:06 - 13 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

From that quote you supplied (sorry, i'm not prepared to read the whole thing), i'd read that "tampering" as more akin to fitting a cat delete, or EGR blanking device, thus "tampering" with the emisisons control devices on cars, rather than "tuning" or "modifiying"

But hey, that could just be me being naive
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Kris
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PostPosted: 08:54 - 13 Oct 2021    Post subject: Re: Stop TAMPERING with your bike/car! Reply with quote

Bhud wrote:
The plan is to put the onus on manufacturers to install some sort of black box tech in vehicles (to include bikes) which will connect with government systems. This will report back all vehicle movements to central government, as well as enable specific orders and commands to specific vehicles. The aim is to, most likely, impose a per-mile new vehicle taxation regime, and at the same time enable a roster type of electronic system which will ban your vehicle from the road on certain days (using pollution as a justification) or from certain areas (same old justification).


Sick
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xX-Alex-Xx
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PostPosted: 09:21 - 13 Oct 2021    Post subject: Re: Stop TAMPERING with your bike/car! Reply with quote

Kris wrote:
Bhud wrote:
The plan is to put the onus on manufacturers to install some sort of black box tech in vehicles (to include bikes) which will connect with government systems. This will report back all vehicle movements to central government, as well as enable specific orders and commands to specific vehicles. The aim is to, most likely, impose a per-mile new vehicle taxation regime, and at the same time enable a roster type of electronic system which will ban your vehicle from the road on certain days (using pollution as a justification) or from certain areas (same old justification).


Sick


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Kris
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PostPosted: 09:24 - 13 Oct 2021    Post subject: Re: Stop TAMPERING with your bike/car! Reply with quote

xX-Alex-Xx wrote:


I can easily imagine being caught using that getting 10 years in prison.

Environment criminal! Rolling Eyes
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 09:52 - 13 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpsmith79 wrote:
From that quote you supplied (sorry, i'm not prepared to read the whole thing), i'd read that "tampering" as more akin to fitting a cat delete, or EGR blanking device, thus "tampering" with the emisisons control devices on cars, rather than "tuning" or "modifiying"

But hey, that could just be me being naive


It's far more wide-ranging than that, unfortunately.

Run through the online consultation to get the proposals in full. As per current nudge-istry, that consultation document doesn't contain even a tenth of the proposals. They wouldn't want them quoted in forums like this, I expect. So it's all couched in the survey.
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xX-Alex-Xx
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PostPosted: 10:04 - 13 Oct 2021    Post subject: Re: Stop TAMPERING with your bike/car! Reply with quote

Kris wrote:
xX-Alex-Xx wrote:


I can easily imagine being caught using that getting 10 years in prison.


Not if they can't find you Laughing
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:40 - 14 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two questions on reading the document:

1) Is this only intended for new designs of vehicles e.g. self driving cars or existing designs. Some sections heavy refer to "innovative vehicles" and others just talk about "road vehicles."

2) What is "tampering" as it's not at all defined in the document in clear language. In the US it's certainly been twisted into "only manufacturer approved repairers" but I don't get the sense this is the same here (although I acknowledge it could morph into that and governments certainly have form for overreach.)

If "tampering" includes doing your own oil service then this document fails immediately as it'll conflict with the new "right to repair" laws (one good thing from the EU) coming in.

Seems more like "tampering" in the context of this document is along the lines of hacking your Tesla software Thinking
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 19:28 - 14 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is what I was going to suggest. This is something that will almost certainly be ramped up in electric cars. No playing with the software etc. I bet by 2030 the governments will be able to track all cars and turn them off at will. No more police chases, no need, just immobilise the car.

It's going to happen and electric vehicles will make it that bit easier to implement. A bit like drink driving or smoking, once you ingraine in the population something is wrong and only selfish nasty people do it, you can get the sheeple on side.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 19:32 - 14 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good questions.

The consultation survey has more information on these points, including a detailed definition of "vehicle". In short, a "vehicle" for the purposes of the proposals is anything designed for use on the road, and expressly includes motorcycles and cars.

"Tampering" is supposed to include absolutely everything you could think of, to do with a private vehicle. The problem is that it's a broad definition and gives the Sec of State broad and sweeping new powers. It's to include all software and hardware. Common sense might suggest it will only be used for very limited purposes. However, the proposed powers themselves are not limited.

Lodged in the consultation form (RTF file):

Quote:

We want to ensure we have powers to introduce provisions to permit the safe introduction of new technologies and new vehicle categories that do not meet existing approval requirements.

We also want to develop consumer information schemes such as tyre labelling.

We propose to create:

- an approval scheme for automated vehicles to set requirements for safety, security and in-use monitoring – this will cover systems, sub-systems and manufacturers’ processes across the vehicle lifecycle (design, development, manufacturing and in-use operation)

- new technical regulations for road vehicles, such as approval and in-use obligations for software and cyber-security requirements over vehicle life – this will include the ability to direct vehicle manufacturers and suppliers of replacement parts to act where needed
powers to ensure the correct maintenance and use requirements, most notably for connected and automated vehicles

- improved powers for monitoring and enforcement of in-use compliance and market surveillance activities – this will include requirements for manufacturers to provide information (such as technical specifications, performance data and access to embedded software)

-powers for the Secretary of State for Transport to amend, by statutory instrument, retained EU legislation on the type-approval of vehicles and non-road mobile machinery – for example, the EU type-approval framework regulations and regulations covering engine pollutants and emissions


Quote:

We anticipate a greater range of new and innovative road vehicle designs and associated technologies.

We propose a flexible, proportionate and responsive approach to allow safe, secure and environmentally friendly vehicles to come to market. These vehicles need to be registered for use on our roads without undue delay.

At the same time, we want to ensure that we can respond quickly to address any new and emerging security threats and safety risks. Flexibility will enable us to be responsive to developments and learn from the deployment of new technologies such as vehicle automation. This may be important for maintaining safety where new and previously unforeseen risks arise.

We propose to:

- revise the existing provisions around prototype vehicles and vehicle orders to better accommodate the registration and use of innovative vehicle designs

- create a power for the Secretary of State for Transport to issue guidance covering matters which may not be suitable for secondary legislation

Proposed revisions regarding vehicle orders include:

- enabling orders to apply to vehicles operated on behalf of specified persons

- applying order-making powers to retained EU approval legislation

-extending order-making powers to allow the registration and use of small volumes/small series innovative vehicles that do not comply with all type approval requirements subject to alternative safety/environmental/security measures being included

Such provisions should allow manufacturers and system suppliers to easily place new vehicles and technologies produced in limited numbers on the market. This will be subject to controls and conditions which maintain safety, security and environmental performance.

We propose giving power to the Secretary of State for Transport to issue guidance, supplementing vehicle approval regulations. This power is considered necessary to enable the regulator to respond appropriately and in a timely manner to:

- emerging technologies undergoing rapid advancements

- the latest knowledge and best-practice

- the latest methodologies for assessing vehicle safety and security

Example applications of this power could include:

- interpreting existing technical requirements and test procedures to enable application to new technologies

- best-practice for the use of virtual testing (for example, the validation of simulation-based testing)

- ensuring consistent and safe behaviours of automated vehicles under certain scenarios  



Now for the bit on "tampering":

Quote:


Tackling tampering
 
We define a system, part or component as:

"software and/or hardware that impacts on: the environment; road safety; or security"
This would include examples such as those which assist or fulfil the driving task, control power, speed or emissions, protects road users or protects the vehicle from tampering.


By my reading, this covers absolutely all vehicle parts and software.

Control of speed may or not be a plan to make systems like this obligatory and non-disableable, but this is pure speculation on my part:

https://www.motor1.com/news/503466/renault-dacia-limit-top-speed/

The new powers would, in fact, require these speed limiters to be mandatory and untamperable, should the Sec of State dictate.

The survey mentions things that "protect road users", i.e. sensors, cameras, ABS. Emissions relevant: exhaust systems and fuelling.

This is why I reckon that the implications of the proposals shall be that changing anything will be considered "tampering". They'll go after the parts vendors first, and then the end users (as they will demand invoice lists, to build up the paperwork). This is what happened in America. They raided parts supply stores, then demanded inventories and full invoices and accounts. From there, they backtraced individuals who bought odd items like intakes, and in turn some individuals got the knock on the door and were quizzed on their vehicles and whether they were used on the road. This had a chilling effect on US automotive culture, and threatens to kill off their massive aftermarket parts industry. I do have a sneaking suspicion that the US is simply being seen as the hardest nut to crack and we may be next. Although I can't prove that.

Note that the UK's proposals encompass BOTH road vehicles and machinery not intended for the road. So there will be no race/off-road exemption for the crime of supplying, say, an aftermarket brake system, or an exhaust.

These is always a possibility that the government wishes to accrue to itself new powers that it does not intend to exercise. However, I, personally, do not believe that it intends to limit itself to anything at all. These proposed powers, if allowed to pass unchallenged, would give them a lot of leverage. Example: making cannabis unlawful to possess means that the police may turn a blind eye to it, unless they feel like prosecuting users one day. There's always that option there. That's why I believe these proposals would give the govt powers that are excessively broad in scope.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:15 - 15 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Worth bearing in mind these would be proposals for new vehicles so it'll be in a few generations the kids will all be crying "Why's life so boring?"
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