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Is it time to ban political parties?

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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 22:27 - 05 Dec 2021    Post subject: Is it time to ban political parties? Reply with quote

A certain section of people, mostly my age group, blindly vote for the red party and bash the blue party without actually thinking about the policies and solutions on offer. If we ban parties voters will no longer have the "red box" ticking virtue signalling option and might actually have to think for themselves.

This also has the side effect of solving the problem of how to fund political parties. Just don't Laughing
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 23:12 - 05 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winston Churchill wrote:
Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time...


You're advocating for revolution in the wrong country Smile Evolution might be possible: some form of proportional representation, devolving powers to local government - small incremental changes.

But is the problem the parties or that more and more MPs hail from a dedicated political class rather than drawn from the plebs?
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 00:54 - 06 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

How can you ban them? Peope will still migrate towards people of their own kind. You see that in migrants all congregating together in towns. You see it with people of like minds socialising together. The same would happen with individual politicians bnding with other politicians with the same ideas. A party in all but name.

Then, how would you have a working goverment? Who chooses the PM? Who chooses the political direction? Even in countries with PR and coallitions there are parties.

I would say a politician has have to had a proper job for at least 5? years. Not working for daddies firm or pulling pints in a pub while at Uni but a full time job, learning what it feels like to have nigh on half your wage packet taken by the government.

Then when you become an MP that's all you can do. Take a penny from any other source and you are done for taking bribes, and locked up or stuck on a pike staff on London bridge in Dianes case. Dance!

I can but dream.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 02:35 - 06 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've arrived at the central problem: why would one give up a decent job and take a pay cut to pick up the poisoned chalice of political office? You'd either have to be a psychopath or on the take...
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Islander
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PostPosted: 03:00 - 06 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
You've arrived at the central problem: why would one give up a decent job and take a pay cut to pick up the poisoned chalice of political office? You'd either have to be a psychopath or on the take...


Some people will want to serve the nation. Some of those will go into the various forces, some will go into the public sector, some will want to change things through politics.

You hit the nail on the head with the criticism of party politics though, that's the biggest problem facing any country with representative democracy. If people voted for the best person to represent them and their constituency rather than the party, that would be a step forward.

The easiest way forward and one that the parties would fight tooth and nail (except maybe the Lib Dems) is true proportional representation using the single transferable vote system. We use it in Scotland for our LA elections and a watered down version of PR (additional member system) for Scottish Parliamentary elections. The latter was put in place by the main parties in order to keep the SNP from government - that worked out well for them, didn't it? Laughing

STV is the way forward though.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 12:25 - 06 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, worth mentioning there are many, many alternatives to first-past-the-post. The phase "proportional representation" has erroneously been weaponised Sad

But as to the Libtards being keen? Of course, they did so well out of the last coalition government Laughing TBF that was a fuck-up of their own creation.

Rolling back the constitutional changes of the Blair government would probably be of more tangible use than changing the voting system but after that shifting to a more bottom-up, local form of government would be on my wish-list.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 13:01 - 06 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Yes, worth mentioning there are many, many alternatives to first-past-the-post. The phase "proportional representation" has erroneously been weaponised Sad


Of the many, STV gives the truest outcome which is why it terrifies party politicians. Thumbs Up

Easy-X wrote:
But as to the Libtards being keen? Of course, they did so well out of the last coalition government Laughing TBF that was a fuck-up of their own creation.


Yep, they sold their souls. They still have some decent politicians but they've got a long road to recovery.

Easy-X wrote:
Rolling back the constitutional changes of the Blair government would probably be of more tangible use than changing the voting system but after that shifting to a more bottom-up, local form of government would be on my wish-list.


Which changes in particular? The worst of his excesses was partnering up with Dubya and destabilising the Middle East. That's pretty much done and dusted though.

I'd like to see some of the police powers he put in place reigned in.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 13:18 - 06 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

No socalled 'democracy' is a true one, with the possible exception of Switzerland where they have a referendum on what to feed the cat.
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martin734
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PostPosted: 15:46 - 06 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really don't think it is possible to ban political parties and still retain a functioning government. What I would actually like to see is more credible political parties to challenge the big two, particularly more politically centrist parties. I used to usually vote for the Liberal Democrats as their political views and values most closely matched my own. However, at the last general election I voted for an independent MP. I felt unable to vote Lib Dem last time due to their blatant hypocrisy over the Brexit vote. Although I did vote to remain, I respect that the majority of those who voted, voted to leave. That happens in a democratic process. But for the Lib Dems to decide that they were going to completely ignore the wishes of the voting public in the first real democratic process for a generation was not something I could accept, especially from a Political party that calls itself The Liberal Democrats.
UK politics have become very polarised now. You have Labour on the far left who just want to cancel anyone who doesn't agree with them, but who can't actually agree themselves what they stand for, and you have the Conservatives who couldn't give a shit about anyone who isn't white, British, middle class and from London. The Lib Dems are a bunch of hypocrites and the Greens are just the lunatic fringe. There isn't a credible political party for those voters who's political views are mainly centrist or just left of right of centre. right now, I have no idea who to vote for in the next election.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 17:58 - 06 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
How can you ban them? Peope will still migrate towards people of their own kind. You see that in migrants all congregating together in towns. You see it with people of like minds socialising together. The same would happen with individual politicians bnding with other politicians with the same ideas. A party in all but name.


They can still meet up if they like, they just can't campaign as being part of a party or have a party on a ballot paper. The objective is to force voters to think not ban them from associating.

Polarbear wrote:
Then, how would you have a working goverment? Who chooses the PM? Who chooses the political direction? Even in countries with PR and coallitions there are parties.


Same as now. MPs vote for a PM but would also vote for the ministers. Direction is chosen by MPs, not just the PM, I'd say that is an improvement. Abstraction away from the voter is why you and I get so little say.

Polarbear wrote:
I would say a politician has have to had a proper job for at least 5? years. Not working for daddies firm or pulling pints in a pub while at Uni but a full time job, learning what it feels like to have nigh on half your wage packet taken by the government.

Then when you become an MP that's all you can do. Take a penny from any other source and you are done for taking bribes, and locked up or stuck on a pike staff on London bridge in Dianes case. Dance!

I can but dream.


Many of them work as SPADs and the like before becoming an MP. We need fewer professional politicians. What you highlight is a wider problem of a managerial class in general, too many Chiefs, too few Indians.

Islander wrote:

Some people will want to serve the nation. Some of those will go into the various forces, some will go into the public sector, some will want to change things through politics.


That may be true for Tories (I've not met any Tory SPADs) but the Labour and Lib Dem* party juniors were interested primarily in making a career out of gobbing off about the latest woke topic. Don't get me wrong, they are nice enough people, just not really in politics for the reasons you are hoping for.
* Lib Dems don't have SPADs.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 19:47 - 06 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im-a-Ridah wrote:
The objective is to force voters to think not ban them from associating.


You're 'avin' a grin! That only resolves itself as a rejection of universal suffrage... which I don't believe in anyway - Service Guarantees Citizenship Wink

Islander wrote:
Which changes in particular? The worst of his excesses was partnering up with Dubya and destabilising the Middle East. That's pretty much done and dusted though.


If you look at his constitutional reforms it's easy to get bogged down with the big ticket items like the Welsh Assembly but there were also vast swathes of tiny backroom procedural changes that added up to a serious re-alignment of the wheels of power. Personally I'd go even more local - something that was proposed but never happened.

But seeing him him hang for treason and mass-murder would be sufficient Laughing
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to v or not to v
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PostPosted: 21:54 - 06 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

universal suffrage is a ridiculous and would be the first thing id ban.
and bring mandatory term limits for political office.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 14:57 - 09 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Incoming conspiracy theory! Shocked
Isn't the idea to have a globalised world where everyone is treated the same? Well, wouldn't that mean the end of political parties? Utopia - it's just around the corner! Laughing
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 15:04 - 09 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Incoming conspiracy theory! Shocked
Isn't the idea to have a globalised world where everyone is treated the same? Well, wouldn't that mean the end of political parties? Utopia - it's just around the corner! Laughing


You mean where some people are more equal then others?
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 16:57 - 09 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
Incoming conspiracy theory! Shocked
Isn't the idea to have a globalised world where everyone is treated the same? Well, wouldn't that mean the end of political parties? Utopia - it's just around the corner! Laughing


You mean where some people are more equal then others?


The idea is for working class people the world over to be treated equally badly by their rulers.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 17:23 - 10 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Considering there are actually only about 600 of them, politicians have more than their fair share of total cvnts and arseholes.

Ex-Tory minister Andrew Griffiths found to have raped wife

Raped his wife. Coersive and controlling. Lewd comments sent to constituants. Having a long time affair. Addicted to porn.

But hey, he was cleared by the Parliamentary standards watchdog so that's all OK. Thumbs Up

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-59611761
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Ste
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PostPosted: 17:32 - 10 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
But hey, he was cleared by the Parliamentary standards watchdog so that's all OK. Thumbs Up

"A Conservative MP who sent sexual messages to two barmaids has been cleared of wrongdoing by the parliamentary standards watchdog.

Andrew Griffiths, 48, resigned as small business minister last July after the messages were published in a newspaper.

The watchdog said it found no evidence he sent them while he would have been engaged in parliamentary activities."

That's the only thing he's been cleared of by the Parliamentary standards watchdog.

I'm unsure as to why the rape allegations are being dealt with by a private family court hearing rather than a more traditional crown court setting. Confused If it's only being dealt with in a private court then does that mean the rape allegations haven't been made to the police?

Quote:
Judge Williscroft said Mr Griffiths "described how he had engaged in what he described as sexually risky behaviour for many years, as he enjoyed it".

He told the judge that he had been "addicted to pornography".

https://i.imgur.com/pFuNtL8.png

Shocked
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 19:18 - 10 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is political power like some sort of Viagra?!
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 20:40 - 10 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Is political power like some sort of Viagra?!


Of course it is, Whats that saying? Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutly.

I read somewhere that the biggest high a rapist has was the power over the person and the sex was the way of inflicting that power, rather than being the primary reason for the act. Politicians metaphorically fuck people every day and I bet they enjoy every minute of it. Laughing
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 17:30 - 12 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:


Of course it is, Whats that saying? Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutly.

I read somewhere that the biggest high a rapist has was the power over the person and the sex was the way of inflicting that power, rather than being the primary reason for the act. Politicians metaphorically fuck people every day and I bet they enjoy every minute of it. Laughing


Best rape defence for women: laugh when he has sex with you and joke about how small and pathetic his penis is. I wonder if that violates his 'uman rights? Laughing Thinking Thinking
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 22:25 - 13 Dec 2021    Post subject: Re: Is it time to ban political parties? Reply with quote

Im-a-Ridah wrote:
A certain section of people, mostly my age group, blindly vote for the red party and bash the blue party without actually thinking about the policies and solutions on offer. If we ban parties voters will no longer have the "red box" ticking virtue signalling option and might actually have to think for themselves.

This also has the side effect of solving the problem of how to fund political parties. Just don't Laughing


I've heard some idiocy on this forum but that is some top drawer nonsense.

Mind you though, 'murica has done such a good job of terrifying its population of the red menace it now has a one party pretending to be two parties system.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 22:40 - 13 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyway, the right in the UK is essentially one party, the Tories. The left however is split over several parties and is philosophicaly more complex. If there was a monolithic left to oppose the monolith of the Tories then the UK would be a left wing state. I would say in outlook at the street level it essentially is to the left.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/general-election-results-pr-alternative-voting-system-tories-labour-hung-a9246661.html?amp
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to v or not to v
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PostPosted: 21:01 - 14 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
. If there was a monolithic left to oppose the monolith of the Tories then the UK would be a left wing state. I would say in outlook at the street level it essentially is to the left.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/general-election-results-pr-alternative-voting-system-tories-labour-hung-a9246661.html?amp


can you explain to me how the UK is right wing?
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 21:12 - 14 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

to v or not to v wrote:


can you explain to me how the UK is right wing?


It's not, thats the mystery regarding how its managed to have counter-intuativly right wing governments for generations now.

Did you read my post?
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Val
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PostPosted: 23:36 - 16 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

to v or not to v wrote:

can you explain to me how the UK is right wing?


Simples. Merkel who is right wing conservatives is considered somehow lefty in the UK. Also some of Keir Starmer policies are on the right side of many Merkel policies.
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