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Kawasaki Jimbo |
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Kawasaki Jimbo World Chat Champion
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Posted: 20:05 - 16 Jan 2022 Post subject: |
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I thought this was quite funny. If you were in the cells and they told you the duty solicitor was Keir Starmer you’d go, “Oh, feck!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7dWX25IGnA |
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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Im-a-Ridah |
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Im-a-Ridah World Chat Champion
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Posted: 21:55 - 16 Jan 2022 Post subject: |
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Education standards in general have fallen so low you'd either have to spend the first year of a uni course playing catch-up and make it a 4-year or let standards drop. Tricky choice.
Another one we can blame on Blair ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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Nobby the Bastard |
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Nobby the Bastard Harley Gaydar
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Skudd |
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Skudd Super Spammer
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Val |
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Val World Chat Champion
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 00:25 - 17 Jan 2022 Post subject: |
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Val wrote: |
That may be true for some subjects. But other like electronics and computer science develop so fast the last 30 years that it is better to have somebody educated with degree who will learn on the job anyway. When I have studied radio and telecommunications in 1978 we were still having exams on vacuum tubes schematic. In the same time studying the transistors and integrated circuits.
It is continuous education anyway. You learn each year completely new stuff. So better to have more people, the foot soldiers of science then less educated to higher level aka the generals.
I have friends doing computer science nowadays and they have no idea who is Donald Knuth or what is Seminumerical Algorithms (30 years ago called The Bible of Computer Programming). |
You are conflating content with capability.
A degree isn't about how much/what you know, it's about demonstrating an understanding of how things work then how you critically and rationally assimilate and use that knowledge. It's not about learning, it's about demonstrating you know how to learn then apply what you have learned.
A computer programmer is a case in point. From the outside, I'd say learning a programming language is WAY less relevant than understanding how programming works, learning how to solve the problems and understanding the benefits and limitations of the various ways you could go about it.. Then you don't get graduates using a microcontroller to do the job of a switch. Otherwise you are just training a technician.
In my field, I spent most of the time learning to understand how a healthy animal works. Then understanding how those things can go wrong. 22 years later, I can be presented with a drug, disease or diagnostic technique that didn't exist when I was training and understand how to use it. I can also see something totally novel and unexpected and set about working out what is going on.
To give a relevant and recent example. Last week I was presented with a cow stuck giving birth to a calf with two heads, I was able to apply my knowledge of anatomy and embyology to know that due to the point the heads were fused, it was very unlikely there would be additional extra body parts. Once the heads were out, I would be able to deliver the calf in the normal manner and not have to do a caesarian section. I wasn't taught that, I was taught how to work that out from first principals
If a computing degree is only examining your knowledge of a programming language, it should not be a degree. That used to be the field of polytechnics teaching technical and vocational qualifications which are just as valid for a working environment. Probably worth more than a degree in many situations.
University degrees are about showing you know HOW to learn and demonstrating understanding. Not necessaritly the minutia of what you have learned.
When I graduated, the written exam was only to gain an exemption from the actual exam which still consisted of being questioned face-to-face by a panel of academics on the subject. You could (and I did twice) fail the written exam but still pass. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Posted: 00:52 - 17 Jan 2022 Post subject: |
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On programming languages I concur. I learnt most of my trade at A-Level and we were (officially*) taught Pascal and I've never used that language since!
C, C/C++, Forth, Oberon, E, Prolog, occam, Rexx, Miranda, Haskell, Lua, Squirrel, SQL, Java, JavaScript, Dart, C#... a series of ever more shiny wrenches I have collected. To echo Mr. Stinkwheel: experience might tell you which wrench to use but learning should be about why we need a wrench.
Physics: again, do I use any of it now? Barely. I do however still remember to form a hypothesis, test the hypothesis, estimate error margins, consider ways of improving the test... etc. oh, and after all that one might be so bold as to offer a qualified conclusion
*I submitted all my source code in C as no one else on the course took the time to learn it and thus they couldn't steal it and pass it off as their own. Yes, folks, hacking predates the Internet! ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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Diggs |
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Diggs World Chat Champion
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Posted: 11:13 - 17 Jan 2022 Post subject: |
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Quote: | A degree isn't about how much/what you know, it's about demonstrating an understanding of how things work then how you critically and rationally assimilate and use that knowledge. It's not about learning, it's about demonstrating you know how to learn then apply what you have learned. |
Bob-on. ____________________ Now - Speed Triple, old ratty GS550, GSXR750M
Gone (in order of ownership) - Raleigh Runabout, AP50, KH125, GP125, KH250, CBX550, Z400, CB750FII, 250LC, GS550, ZXR750H1, Guzzi Targa, GSX750F, KH250 x2, Bimota SB6R and counting... |
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Val |
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Val World Chat Champion
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Val |
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Val World Chat Champion
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Posted: 19:07 - 17 Jan 2022 Post subject: |
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Kawasaki Jimbo |
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Kawasaki Jimbo World Chat Champion
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Bhud |
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Bhud World Chat Champion
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Posted: 19:40 - 17 Jan 2022 Post subject: |
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I don't know how long any of you lot could live in the jungles of Borneo or Papua. Would you know how to find food, and avoid dangerous insects, bugs, animals or plants? Would you know how to treat a cut? Would you know how to find clean water, free from dangerous bugs? I certainly couldn't live in that environment if I had to fend for myself. I'd probably last about a day.
This is because the environment itself is a filter. It draws organisms to it which are most easily able to adapt, survive and thrive.
Point being, if lots of people need work done on their house, and we're still in the EU, then we draw lots of Eastern European builders. Currently, the immigration system is selecting for certain types of highly skilled worker. This causes brain drain in their country of origin, impoverishing those countries. It's also a form of labour arbitrage. So you get a lot of Indian coders and whatnot in the areas around London. It's supporting these urban clusters which have been missold to them as classy, upscale, luxury developments, etc. They're happy with it. Essentially, these are technicians rather than technologists. You also get a lot of draw from the agricultural industry, which is pulling in lots of these very poor migrants who come over in dinghies.
No conclusions can be drawn from this. Some types of behaviour are incentivised and others are discouraged. You get people who are fit for particular types of environment who couldn't survive in others.
Say you've got a bricklayer who's handled every type of brick. He's laid bricks on office block facades, in residential housing developments, in public buildings, in prisons, etc. Do you trust this man to know everything about buildings, or an architect?
The samurai defended Japan successfully in the face of Mongol invasions. Then their profession was exalted, and all wealth and power accrued to them. Several centuries of infighting followed, as a result of this. This is just an example to demonstrate how specialisation can't be extrapolated broadly, with validity and utility, to unrelated matters in order to derive a general rule.
Last edited by Bhud on 20:38 - 17 Jan 2022; edited 1 time in total |
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 19:54 - 17 Jan 2022 Post subject: |
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My understanding is the Navy are being put in overall charge of co-ordinating the maritime aspect of into double figures of agencies who have an interest in immigration, rather than in physically going out and dealing with small boat migrants. Although that would also be within their remit.
I wanted to be angry about them having drinks at Downing street on the Friday before Phil the Greeks funeral, then I wondered what I was doing that weekend and realised I was in no position to be judgemental. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Posted: 23:04 - 17 Jan 2022 Post subject: |
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Bhud wrote: | Say you've got a bricklayer who's handled every type of brick. He's laid bricks on office block facades, in residential housing developments, in public buildings, in prisons, etc. Do you trust this man to know everything about buildings, or an architect? |
From experience, I'd trust the brick layer. I know a lot of people in the trade and occasionally get invited to jobs do unusual stuff - run Ethernet, spec out an alarm system - that more calloused hands might fumble at. Anyhoo, "what was the architect thinking?" is a common refrain. ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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Bhud |
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Bhud World Chat Champion
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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Posted: 00:43 - 18 Jan 2022 Post subject: |
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The brickie will skive off, cut corners, substitute cheaper items, nick stuff for homers and in extreme cases build stuff in the wrong place and the wrong size. If he turns up at all.
The architect couldn't build a wall in a straight line but will know how to construct a building that wont fall down.
They had terrible difficulties when building the Khalifa tower because builders thought they knew best and kept deviating from the specified concrete mix which had been very carefully calculated to withstand the enormous compressive forces of 163 floors on top of it.
My Dad once employed a welder. He was absolutely shit hot at it, he could weld anything. It turns out he was also partiucularly adept at welding in holes and taking welded stuff apart again and welding it back together when he'd done it wrong. Or simply throwing his fuck-ups in a storage container at the end of the site where they weren't found until he'd been working there 18 months. He was such a good welder that they eventually gave him a shop fabricator to work directly alongside to hand him the parts pre-cut, drilled and numbered with a sharpie where he wanted the welds, or in extreme cases, already clamped together. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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UncleFester |
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UncleFester World Chat Champion
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Diggs |
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Diggs World Chat Champion
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Posted: 09:49 - 18 Jan 2022 Post subject: |
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Quote: | Say you've got a bricklayer who's handled every type of brick. He's laid bricks on office block facades, in residential housing developments, in public buildings, in prisons, etc. Do you trust this man to know everything about buildings, or an architect? |
Different skill sets with an overlap. Likewise I wouldn't trust an architect to lay bricks, or a structural engineer to weld steel etc etc... ____________________ Now - Speed Triple, old ratty GS550, GSXR750M
Gone (in order of ownership) - Raleigh Runabout, AP50, KH125, GP125, KH250, CBX550, Z400, CB750FII, 250LC, GS550, ZXR750H1, Guzzi Targa, GSX750F, KH250 x2, Bimota SB6R and counting... |
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Pete. |
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Pete. Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Karma :
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YPVS |
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YPVS Renault 5 Driver
Joined: 29 Dec 2021 Karma :
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Posted: 14:10 - 18 Jan 2022 Post subject: |
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Pete. wrote: | [
Most of the people in those dinghies don't have a pot to piss in. |
Most I see daily, arrive in Dover wearing designer clothes, smoking fags at over 10 Euros a pack in France, and with a £500 to £1,000 smartphones.
On arrival they get a large chicken shish kebab which costs the tax payer £14.50 each from the local Aspendos Turkish restaurants or a Pizza from Domino's, then get driven on pre booked and waiting luxury coaches to transfer them to 3 or 4 star hotels, where they are given spending money and are free to wander around the local area, including areas around local girls schools, hassling locals and students for sex. You don't hear that side of it in the Guardian.
We really need to get over this victim creation. These people are not persecuted, in danger, nor fleeing anything, they're chancers who've binned their ID, as they either have a criminal history to hide, or have already failed asylum claims in the EU, often Germany, where 270,000 have just had their benefits stopped for refusing to work for a living.
Guess where most are now heading?
Cue the ugly gnome and his little clique in 3....2.....1... |
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Posted: 14:50 - 18 Jan 2022 Post subject: |
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UncleBFester wrote: | Give them what is more common - a used, modified setup that has been added to and removed from by all manner of folk over a 5 year period and they've not got the first clue what to do with it other than replace it all. |
Ah, my specialist subject The core software is corporate Java, some of it decades old, and I have to replace things like 9,600bps serial links to local servers with Internet links (without touching any firewalls) to Cloud servers. Like going from an Aga to halogen hob in one step ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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UncleFester |
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UncleFester World Chat Champion
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 2 years, 106 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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