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MT10 Generator Cover Removal - Help

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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 21:57 - 16 Nov 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:
TravisBickle wrote:


Thoughts? Should I use sealant in conjunction with the gasket or not?


You use gasket OR sealant not both. You can smear the gasket with grease to help it seal if you want to.


Magic, thanks!

Every time I open my mouth it becomes more and more apparent that I am achieving newer heights of ignorance.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt Thinking

We all have to starrt somewhere I suppose!
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Islander
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PostPosted: 22:10 - 16 Nov 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

TravisBickle wrote:
Islander wrote:


You use gasket OR sealant not both. You can smear the gasket with grease to help it seal if you want to.


Magic, thanks!

Every time I open my mouth it becomes more and more apparent that I am achieving newer heights of ignorance.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt Thinking

We all have to starrt somewhere I suppose!


I'll counter that with "The only stupid question is the one you don't ask" Wink
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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 00:00 - 24 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Over two months gone by and I have done sweet FA with it. Just been too busy with work over November and December.

Well January and February are traditionally quiet so I'm hoping to get the project finished before the spring! So I can sell it along with my other MT10SP and buy a 1290 Super Duke GT (hopefully the funds from the sale of both bikes will be enough!).

Had another little go at it earlier.

Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:
Mate that stator has taken some damage, you can see shards of it all over the magneto. I can't really tell from the picture, but is the magneto (flywheel) also damaged?


As you rightly speculated, on closer inspection and cleaning the whole area up with WD40, I can see that the flywheel is indeed damaged. A small section of the outer rim is bent inwards. This is why it was giving me so much grief getting the stator out as the flywheel was pinching inwards on the stator! Similarly, the stator seated in the new cover doesn't want to go back in because the bent rim is giving difficulty getting the stator past it to sit nicely inside. So I think at the very least a new flywheel is in order. I just ordered a second hand one up from eBay for just under £150. A second hand stator is about the same again, another £150, but I've held back on that in the hope the existing one will be ok. I mean you can clearly see where some of the outer edge has scraped along that inner rim of the flywheel but I can't see why it wouldn't work still? It's just a graze.

So now I have to wait for yet more parts to arrive.

One question though - and this might seem like a dumb one but better to ask it anyway rather than make assumptions. For now I have removed the stator from the new cover, put the cover back on with the new gasket and new dowels and topped the engine up with oil. I tried to start it, it chugged and puffed a few times, didn't sound like it was sparking, and then the battery gave out so it's now on charge and I'll see if I can get it started now tomorrow.

Obviously I've not been able to see the engine running since I bought the bike as there has always been a hole in the engine casing and therefore no oil in the engine, so this is the first time it's been in a state able to hold its oil. So naturally I'm quite keen to see if I can get the bike running even if there's still quite a long way to go on the project.

I assume I don't actually need the stator in there to make the bike run? All that will result is the battery won't charge, right? At the moment I've just got the stator hanging down at the side of the bike.

I think I'm a bit over my head with this now so I was planning on getting it to my bike mechanic up the road to get him to help me finish the project. It's only 0.3 miles up the road but that's a long way to push a 200kg bike with a flat tyre and rusty brake discs! If I could just get the bike running I can limp it up there slowly.
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 13:47 - 24 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends if the trigger / pulser is part of the stator assembly, which on cursory use of google-fu, it does appear to be.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/362541444510

So no it won't run without the flywheel and stator being present and fully functional.
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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 14:56 - 24 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your reply, that's a relief! I'll have to wait for that to come then!

I'll go get some close-ups of the stator for some opinions if it needs changing too.
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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 15:42 - 24 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://i.ibb.co/RBx0XWs/20220124-143429.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/31Xf1Q4/20220124-143424.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/L5j1x8d/20220124-143418.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/BVKKNKT/20220124-143414.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/ygKZJQm/20220124-143409.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/8BHGCZt/20220124-143406.jpg
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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 15:48 - 24 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

So just looks like most of that green coating has been ground off. Will this affect it? Do I need to order a new one?
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 16:01 - 24 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

TravisBickle wrote:
So just looks like most of that green coating has been ground off. Will this affect it? Do I need to order a new one?


You will probably find that its cracked or split something internally (or broke a copper wire) from the axial forces that it took when it was dropped/ crashed. It must have been a good amount of force to deform the steel lip on the flywheel.
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 17:06 - 24 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's bent the flywheel there is a chance it could have bent the crank....

I would be removing the flywheel and turning the engine over on the starter to see if anything is visibly bent / wobbly.
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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 17:56 - 24 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I bit the bullet and ordered another stator.

I'm half-tempted to do this as cheap as possible, as I think the project is going to be a loss by the time it's finished. On the other hand, in my experience cutting corners can often lead to a bigger bill further down the line (or doing the same job twice) so yeah I think I'll just be thorough and get the job done properly and get rid of the bike knowing I won't have any come-backs.

Thanks for the advice regarding the crank, I'll check that out when I remove the flywheel!

I have circled a bit in green, is the bit I need to check for wobbles? Doesn't look like what I expected a crankshaft to look like...

Also the bit circled in red I presume is the bolt that holds the flywheel on. When I try to remove the bolt will this not just turn the engine over? How do I remove it without just spinning the engine? Put it in gear? Or could that damage the gearbox?

https://i.ibb.co/swMcNR9/Untitled.png
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 18:01 - 24 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

TravisBickle wrote:
How do I remove it without just spinning the engine?


The Kwak service guide told me to use some special holding tool, which cost a fucking fortune online. I used an impact wrench and it just worked.
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jeffyjeff
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PostPosted: 18:56 - 24 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Put it in first gear and have someone apply the rear brake as you loosen the bolt. Use a 1/2 inch drive breaker bar on the socket if you don't have an impact available. You will not damage the transmission.
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jeffyjeff
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PostPosted: 19:05 - 24 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use a dial indicator to check the nose of the crank for runout. You may be able to borrow or rent one from an auto parts store. If you elect to forego the dial indicator, be aware that the runout (wobble) could be very difficult to perceive just by eye. Also, be aware that the bolt holding the flywheel to the crank could be left-handed thread (i.e. turns right to loosen). Best to read up on it or see if there is a youtube video; likely someone has something to say about it online.
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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 19:56 - 24 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's great, thanks for your input!

I'll ask my car garage if they have one and failing that the bike garage up the road from me.

I'll give it a go myself but yeah if I run into difficulty may need to get a professional on the job.

How would a slightly misaligned crankshaft manifest itself? Excessive engine vibration?
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jeffyjeff
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PostPosted: 00:24 - 25 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. Vibration and premature wear. That crankshaft nose looks pretty stout; you probably have little to worry about. But redeem ouzzer is right, best to check it prior to assembly.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 10:10 - 25 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

TravisBickle wrote:
I'll ask my car garage if they have one and failing that the bike garage up the road from me.


I can't make a firm promise but I will look to see if I have an old one and old magnetic stand I can just send you to keep.

You would find somewhere to mount the magnetic base, then arrange it so the tip of the dial is touching the rotor then set the dial to zero and then rotate the rear wheel (while off the ground on a paddock stand) with it in gear to turn the crank a full rotation slowly and note the run-out (the highest and lowest values that the dial indicates).
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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 10:21 - 25 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's really kind, thank you!

Let me know if you find anything, in the meantime I'll wait for the parts to arrive.
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jeffyjeff
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PostPosted: 16:14 - 25 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:
...then rotate the rear wheel (while off the ground on a paddock stand) with it in gear to turn the crank a full rotation slowly and note the run-out (the highest and lowest values that the dial indicates).

A suggestion: remove the spark plugs and engage your transmission in high gear (6th) to make it easier to turn over the engine by rotating the rear wheel. Wink
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 16:59 - 25 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

jeffyjeff wrote:
A suggestion: remove the spark plugs and engage your transmission in high gear (6th) to make it easier to turn over the engine by rotating the rear wheel. Wink


Embarassed was I wrong? I am positive this is how I did it with my own bike Embarassed
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jeffyjeff
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PostPosted: 19:38 - 25 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:
was I wrong? I am positive this is how I did it with my own bike Embarassed

Not wrong, exactly. But there are steps you can take to make the task easier. The mechanical advantage of the engine driving the rear wheel in first gear becomes a mechanical disadvantage when using the rear wheel to drive the engine. If the spark plugs are in place, you compound the effort because you must then overcome cylinder compression. Also, TravisBickle has a litre bike. Your Kawasaki is a bit smaller, with two fewer cylinders.
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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 22:32 - 27 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can someone help me with this please?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC0AT-NLsoM
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 00:36 - 28 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Always download a service manual for free.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1536165/Yamaha-Mtn1000-2016.html?page=318#manual
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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 00:56 - 28 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Magic. Thanks!

I saw the outside thread and did wonder if a special tool existed for the job. I'll see if my mechanic up the road has one as thy're nearly £40 on Ebay Shocked
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 01:42 - 28 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're right not to lever on it because 1. it won't come off that way anyway and 2. it'll wreck your cases.

You're also right when you say that it's just friction holding on the taper. Any taper less than 7 degrees angle is considered a self-holding taper, the shallower the angle thegreater the holding force.

If you didn't have the proper tool to screw on the outside threads then you might have been able to modify a cheap puller to pull through two of those holes, or even make one with nuts and bolts and a piece of thick plate. Hammering on the rotor is a great way to wreck your crank by bending the taper. Also breaks the magnets on the rotor if a person intended to re-fit it they would end up disappointed.

When you re-assemble it, no oil, no grease, no loctite just degrease both halves dry the taper and set it into place. You can loctite the fastener if you want/the manual says to but not the taper itself.
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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 01:50 - 28 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great now I'm worried I've bent the crankshaft Embarassed

I gave it a few forceful taps/bangs around the already-wrecked flywheel (hence the replacement) but I wasn't proper going to town on it or anything.

Probably should have put it in the hands of someone who actually knows what they're doing, or never starting the project in the first place. But it's a good learning curve for me, I'm enjoying it so far...

By widening my search slightly I managed to find a what appears to be compatible puller for £9.99 so I'll have to wait for that to be delivered I guess...
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