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HT Leads - understanding the terminology

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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 13:57 - 13 May 2022    Post subject: HT Leads - understanding the terminology Reply with quote

"Some red HT leads would look nice!" Let's just make some...

So this is for the ol' Triumph we're working on. Points have at some point (not by us) been replaced with a Dynatek* electronic ignition system and we've replaced the rectifier/zener arrangement with a conventional reg/rec unit.

First up copper vs. carbon leads. Copper is more "noisy" but as this isn't an EFI bike with loads of sensors does it matter? Also do screw-in type plug caps only work with copper?

Resistors. I get that carbon leads are themselves a resistance in the circuit so the equivalent for copper would be resistor plug caps or spark plugs with a resistor built-in. Erm... n00b question why/when does one need resistance? Shifty

Specifically does our old Triumph need resistance somewhere bearing in mind the retro fitted electronic ignition?

Finally actually making leads. I could see copper being a bit easier to work with and carbon leads definitely requiring a specific crimp tool. Just wondering whether the EMF noise from copper is even worth worrying about Thinking

*I'm wondering if the kit was ever intended for a Triumph, I can only turn up mentions of it sold for BMWs of the same era.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 14:23 - 13 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.feked.com/spark-plug-ignition-lead-braided-ht-cable-red-black.html

or just put red shrinktube over normal HT lead.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 14:59 - 13 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, cloth braided cable does seem appropriate Smile Do I need plug caps with the 5k resistor?
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gt alex
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PostPosted: 15:08 - 13 May 2022    Post subject: Re: HT Leads - understanding the terminology Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
"Some red HT leads would look nice!" Let's just make some...

First up copper vs. carbon leads. Copper is more "noisy" but as this isn't an EFI bike with loads of sensors does it matter? Also do screw-in type plug caps only work with copper?

Resistors. I get that carbon leads are themselves a resistance in the circuit so the equivalent for copper would be resistor plug caps or spark plugs with a resistor built-in. Erm... n00b question why/when does one need resistance? Shifty

.[/size]


I don't really know but I suspect these days every thing is resistive to reduce radio interference and "noise" in the bikes harness which maybe could upset something electronic on the bike.

I have a carburettor and cdi black box and have unscrewed the plug caps and removed the resistors replacing them with a short length of silver solder rod. I am also running copper HT lead which came from the local dirt bike shop (only place I could find it) and I an running non resistor plugs.

Its a 2002 bike and I have been running that way for 6months no ill effects and I believe I have added reliability.
We will see but I don't think it's a issue.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 16:05 - 13 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've run resistorless plug caps in both points ignition system bikes and ECU ignition system bikes, without any problems.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 16:23 - 13 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

You say no ill effects but have you tried to listen to fm radio when the bike is running?

The resistors aren't to stop the noise affecting g the bikes system but to stop all the noise it creates in radio frequencies.
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virus
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PostPosted: 20:07 - 13 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

as Nobby says, the resistors are noise suppression to prevent interference with electrical items such as TVs, AM/FM radios, CB / Ham radio, WiFi etc


So basically throw the resistors away and dont worry. so long as the Low tension side of the coil has the right resistance for the CDI then it will be totally fine. Putting 2.2 Ohm coils on a bike expecting 3 Ohm will result in it running like a bag of shit until the CDI just dies for example.

Cheers
John
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 20:45 - 13 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Do I need plug caps with the 5k resistor?


The dynatech website seems to recommend it.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 11:13 - 14 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leakage to Ground/Earth.
Noise (if you're bothered.)
Watertightness encourages reductiin in potential for 'tracking' (leakage to earth) which leaks out all the energy used to jump the airgap under pressured conditions.

I prefer copper as when ever ive had issue with HT systems most commonly it was bastirt crabon leads and their shitey connection.

If you're real anal, one of those petrolhead sites that those weirdos who are 'intae cars' Rolling Eyes use.

There is a lot of tecspeek on somenof those sites.

Not much problem with ignition on modern electronic ignition systems really. The materials are better quality and the components dont suk as much as before. (Since spark ignition was invented, it seems like as long as it worked no fuker bothered to advance it or develop it much.)
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 19:53 - 14 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update: complete brain fart Sad The Dyna module is on the Kawasaki, the T140 actually has an original Lucas "ignition amplifier" Rolling Eyes
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steve the grease
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PostPosted: 20:09 - 14 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Running without either unsuppressed leads or caps is pretty much the radio frequency version of open pipes......... It pisses off a lot of people.
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gt alex
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PostPosted: 07:19 - 15 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
You say no ill effects but have you tried to listen to fm radio when the bike is running?

The resistors aren't to stop the noise affecting g the bikes system but to stop all the noise it creates in radio frequencies.


I must just be anti-social then.
But wait, what if I run a braded earth shield over the out side?
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gt alex
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PostPosted: 08:11 - 15 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

gt alex wrote:

I must just be anti-social then.
But wait, what if I run a braded earth shield over the out side?


I have done exactly that.
Earth shielding on my high tension leads, not to be friendly to your TV but to get a better spark.
A layer of stainless braid, heat shrink and the ends have extra heat shrink to seal it, the tail on the braid is bolted to the frame.
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B1N
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PostPosted: 11:00 - 15 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you look at the 'Pictorial diagram of a simple spark-gap transmitter from a 1917 boy's hobby book' inthe link below you can see how similar a spark gap transmitter is to a points ignition system, basically it is a spark gap transmitter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spark-gap_transmitter
The points act as The telegraph key, any wires of the bike loom connected to or near the ignition circuit will act as the tuning coil, the leyden jar is a condenser, the coil and the spark gap you already know.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 13:55 - 15 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

When is a door not a door?

When its a Leyden Jar.
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steve the grease
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PostPosted: 18:50 - 15 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Construction and use stuff is points on your license.....

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/2126/made/data.xht?view=snippet&wrap=true
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 19:06 - 15 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

steve the grease wrote:
Construction and use stuff is points on your license.....

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/2126/made/data.xht?view=snippet&wrap=true


Although it's going on a Triumph Bonneville. Presumably a Hinkley one if it has a Lucas ignition so radio noise supression isn't much of a concern. C&U isn't retrospective with the exception of seatbelts.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Old Git Racing
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PostPosted: 23:23 - 15 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you overthink things a tad.

OGR
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 10:31 - 16 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old Git Racing wrote:
I think you overthink things a tad.


I should probably get that on a T-shirt Smile
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B1N
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PostPosted: 23:34 - 16 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I overthink, therefore I am. Thumbs Up
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